WP: In survey, Redskins ask fans for their level of confidence in team’s executives

[dyst]

I don't know how any one can realistically be positive about this team. Nothing they do or show sustains success. Any positive feelings people have is not based on vision or facts, but merely a 'gut feeling'. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

The only thing they're good at is trotting out players from the 80s and tugging on heartstrings to get you to remember how good it was when they were winners, consistently.

 

I will say I think Dan wants a winner.  He'd be stupid not to.  Fans accuse him of wanting to make money and not caring about anything else, but anyone who says that fails to stop and think about how much more he could make if the team was winning.  

 

Flat out, the franchise stands to make a lot more money if they win games, make the playoffs and bring home a title.  More fans in the seats, more publicity, more concessions sold, more merchandise sold, more games on TV, increasing a dwindling fanbase.  Winning puts more money in his pocket.  Look at the Patriots before and after Bellichick/Brady.  If we had that owner, that coach and QB, we'd be hands down the most valuable franchise in the game.  Per Forbes, somehow, we're #4.  https://www.forbes.com/pictures/597f3b2e4bbe6f3eb800f4dc/4-washington-redskins/#4c6dd81b202c

 

We'd be in a different stratosphere if we could win with any kind of consistency.  Dan has just proven inept to put the right people in the right place and then - this is key- get the hell out of the way.    He's done it a few times (Schottenheimer, Gibbs 2, GMSM) but largely you get guys like Allen, Cerrato, Zorn, etc.  He couldn't get out of Schottenheimer's way, Gibbs 2 was a mild success (it wasn't a total flop) and then he couldn't get out of GMSM's way, either.  

 

I just don't think he gets it.  I don't think he understands.  And he's been at it for so long that anyone qualified that could be attracted to the job is going to be turned off by it.  Who'd want to come here?

[Warhead36]

The thing is there are many aspects of the organization I like. The coaches are, for the most part, a solid to above average group. We have some nice players and have established some depth after all the injuries this year. We just have Dumb and Dumber at the top in Allen and Snyder.

[Voice_of_Reason]

So i was thinking about this thread a bit last night, and I apologize if it's already been brought up, but I was thinking to myself, "self, why did the 'Skins do this, and why to just premium ticket holders?"

 

My first answer was that if they shrink the target audience and select the audience carefully, maybe they get an ego boost out of it.

 

Then I thought, do Bruce and Dan REALLY need and ego boost?  Both of them already have egos the size of Montana, and haven't really given any reason to think they care about what fans think over a pretty long period of time.

 

So, what's another reason?  Then it hit me.  The reason that drives everything.  Money.  

 

If I remember correctly, the revenues from premium seats are exempt from the revenue sharing pot.  Which is a reason why new stadiums have a lot of premium seating.  They are also the fans/corporations that spend the most (by far) on the game day experience, with regular club level tickets going for upwards of $400 a ticket per game, and suites and other seats going for more. 

 

They have some protection because these seats are sold on multi-year contracts, but let's say that 1/3 to 1/4 of them are always up for renewal, and they don't sell out, so they have capacity.  

 

Dan could be looking at some numbers which indicate that premium renewals are going to be crap.  And he might be starting to get it that the fanbase just doesn't like the way the team is run.  So he puts a poll out there essentially to his highest paying customers to see.

 

If they come back with, "eh, everything is hunky dory" then that backs him up not having to make any significant changes.

 

If they come back with "this team is being run like crap, I'm outta here next chance I get," that might back up making some change.  

Regardless, after an 8-8 season (which is what we're now marching towards,) with the injury factor, I think he's going to be able to justify to himself everything is ok and on the right path, and stay the course.  I can't really see Snyder making big changes after and 8-8 season.  As much crap as he gets for just churning through coaches, his track record recently indicates that he has more patience.  He doesn't want to fire Bruce.  And Bruce doesn't want to fire Dan.  If they can convince themselves that they will win next year with the current setup, that's what they'll do.  

 

 

32 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

If you're ok with Norv 2.0 run by Bruce Allen, I can't argue with you. I know how this story ends and wish there was a way to avoid it. You're going to get your way in the end and we'll continue down the same road.

 

It is what it is

 

I don't necessarily disagree with your concept of blowing up a lot of the organization (except, I'd try and keep Cousins if he would sign a LTD with the new guy), but I also don't really think the new guy would be that different than the old guy.  

 

Remember, Snyder has hired Vinny (who was worse than Allen), Spurrier and Zorn) who are worse than Jay.  So, it can get worse.

 

I have exactly zero faith in Snyder to hire the right guy to replace Bruce.  So, since things aren't awful, I'm tempted to try and stay the course and see if we can get lucky. Because the chances are that if we blow it up, Dan gets worse guys than we have now.  And that will take 5-10 years to undo.  

 

Shrug.  

41 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The thing is there are many aspects of the organization I like. The coaches are, for the most part, a solid to above average group. We have some nice players and have established some depth after all the injuries this year. We just have Dumb and Dumber at the top in Allen and Snyder.

The FO structure with no accountability of understanding of who's doing what is a problem.

 

I don't think Gruden is better than middle of the pack at best, but he's also not a complete dope like Zorn and Spurrier.  He would do much better with a designated OC who calls the plays so Gruden can coach the whole team. One of my biggest criticisms of him has been he takes on too much and sub-optimizes everything.  

 

But overall, I agree with you.  There are more pieces in place than we've had in a while.  

[hail2skins]

29 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If I remember correctly, the revenues from premium seats are exempt from the revenue sharing pot.  Which is a reason why new stadiums have a lot of premium seating.  They are also the fans/corporations that spend the most (by far) on the game day experience, with regular club level tickets going for upwards of $400 a ticket per game, and suites and other seats going for more. 

 

They have some protection because these seats are sold on multi-year contracts, but let's say that 1/3 to 1/4 of them are always up for renewal, and they don't sell out, so they have capacity.  

 

Dan could be looking at some numbers which indicate that premium renewals are going to be crap.  And he might be starting to get it that the fanbase just doesn't like the way the team is run.  So he puts a poll out there essentially to his highest paying customers to see.

I sat next to a dude in the Zone A club level this year who has paid the Redskins asking rate for tickets for 17 years, and that asking rate is currently over $700 per ticket per game. 

 

I have seen allusions from other posters that the survey, perhaps in a modified form, was sent to non premium STHs as well. 

[tshile]

If I received that survey I wouldnt even fill it out.

 

That's how I feel about everything right now.

[Voice_of_Reason]

27 minutes ago, tshile said:

If I received that survey I wouldnt even fill it out.

 

That's how I feel about everything right now.

Well that wouldn’t be very helpful...

[tmandoug1]

23 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

You could’ve asked a bunch of us here this past offseason how we felt and we would’ve said exactly the same. See the threads where posters like myself, SIP, BFS, and quite a few others focused intensely on the issues with the structure of the FO after they failed to replace Scot properly. See the QB threads where for years now we complained about the tags and how they’ve generally handled it. 

 

Most of us thought this season would be our best chance to contend which is what made the amount of injuries all the more devastating, but we all were concerned about our long term prospects - starting with this upcoming offseason without a clear voice or a truly qualified one heading personnel. 

 

A lot of us have (forcibly) grown as fans and now understand things fans shouldn’t even have to be thinking about in terms of the intricacies of football organizations. But we know enough now not to focus on easy surface targets like the HC and QB when we lose, and instead question WHY they’re placed in an environment not conducive to success on multiple levels that go against even the most basic of organizational principles.  

I'm going to have to mull this over.........it would seem you have taken offense to my post in some way. Just thought maybe the poll shoukd be done after the end of the season when we have a chance to review and catch our breath. But I'm just a cheerleader.......my experience will catch up someday.

[TSO]

2 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

I'm going to have to mull this over.........it would seem you have taken offense to my post in some way. Just thought maybe the poll shoukd be done after the end of the season when we have a chance to review and catch our breath. But I'm just a cheerleader.......my experience will catch up someday.

 

No offense taken, brother. Just correcting what I thought was an erroneous point on your end. You’ve done nothing wrong.  

[The Sisko]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

...

Regarding your point about the wine and cheese ticket base, I think you’re right that that’s who they’re probably trying to cater to with this. However, those folks probably couldn’t care less if the Skins put a quality product on the field. In fact, it might delight their out of town business guests even more if we didn’t. Lord Farquaad, like any NFL owner cares about this customer segment, but caring about them exclusively indicates a dysfunctional ownership that cares only about the bottom line.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 hours ago, The Sisko said:

Regarding your point about the wine and cheese ticket base, I think you’re right that that’s who they’re probably trying to cater to with this. However, those folks probably couldn’t care less if the Skins put a quality product on the field. In fact, it might delight their out of town business guests even more if we didn’t. Lord Farquaad, like any NFL owner cares about this customer segment, but caring about them exclusively indicates a dysfunctional ownership that cares only about the bottom line.

My company  has seats to games, and we have to work to give them away.  We can’t find skins fans to go at all, so we actively have to seak fans of opposing teams

 

We’re giving up our investment.  Not worth the effort anymore.

 

[Boss_Hogg]

16 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Per Forbes, somehow, we're #4.  https://www.forbes.com/pictures/597f3b2e4bbe6f3eb800f4dc/4-washington-redskins/#4c6dd81b202c

 

The team has little to no $ debt.

 

The stadium in Landover and the practice facility in Ashburn were all paid for the previous owner. 

 

This team can go 0-16 every year and still turn a profit. The opposing teams fans always fill up fedex anyway. 

 

But I agree, I think Dan is a fan of the team and he wants to win, but he wants to win his way. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I'd venture a guess all of this stuff comes into play with a new stadium in the works as well.  If they are having trouble filling the $$$ seats at FedEx, one would expect they could have trouble filling even more expensive seats at a new stadium.

[elkabong82]

If Allen were let go in the offseason and Kirk re-signed it would restore MUCH faith in the FO.

[NewCliche21]

14 minutes ago, elkabong82 said:

If Allen were let go in the offseason and Kirk re-signed it would restore MUCH faith in the FO.

 

That's a big point.  Most of us simply are giving a vote of no confidence.  If Allen is here, then I don't see us winning.  That's what made me stop being an STH and stops me from going to games.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

So did anyone else laugh hysterically from these poll results. LMAO And i mean that in a agreement sort of way, Like the overwhelming majority of 1-3's and Boss hogs picture to boot lmao

 

We are such a angry & jaded fanbase, and rightfully so

[Darrell Green Fan]

We know how the hard core fan feels, one look at this or any other board shows that.  But I wonder if the high end buyers who received this survey gave the same feedback.

 

Voice of Reason lived up to his name when he said Snyder could hire worse if he let Bruce go given his track record.  That's pretty depressing.

[MassSkinsFan]

Cousins re-signed and Allen shown the door: continued improvement with the Skins becoming a perennial contender #HTTR

Allen kept and Cousins allowed to go: 6 more years of bull****

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

On 12/26/2017 at 5:08 AM, bedlamVR said:

Vote 1's all you like - demean the team  and feel smug about yourself - demand change all the time demand the owner sell the team all you like (there are worse owners - and potential owners out there - i am sure Donald Trump might still be interested)  but the team is not terrible and it is making progress - regardless of if you want to see it or not ...but then negativity only produces negative outcomes 

 

new poll: 

 

does BedlamVR work in the front office? 

 

Yes

No 

[Malapropismic Depository]

It's still early. Who knows ? Maybe Kirk re-signs with Allen and it's all irrelevant.

Fact is, we're just one win away from 3 straight seasons of .500 or better.

That would be on Allen's watch, and something not accomplished here in almost 3 decades.

Maybe the above is not a huge feat to brag about. But for a Redskins' team, it's a vast improvement over than the norm, and deserves some kind of credit and satisfaction.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 12/26/2017 at 8:01 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Dan could be looking at some numbers which indicate that premium renewals are going to be crap.  And he might be starting to get it that the fanbase just doesn't like the way the team is run.  So he puts a poll out there essentially to his highest paying customers to see.

 

If they come back with, "eh, everything is hunky dory" then that backs him up not having to make any significant changes.

 

If they come back with "this team is being run like crap, I'm outta here next chance I get," that might back up making some change.  

 

 

Good points.  It jogs my memory from this summer when Chris Russell on one of his shows said a source at Redskins Park told him that they are struggling to sell premium seats compared to the past and its a concern.  I actually posted that on a thread or two back, then.

 

The point though confused me some since it means that premium seats aren't sold out and they have to keep selling them.  I didn't know that.  But I gather that's the case.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I would feel a huge boost if Bruce got fired.  But I think the only way that happens is a total purge, including Jay.

 

I'm glad some of y'all stopped going to games because you got disgusted with the product.  I stopped going to games because I am poor.  

[XtremeFan55]

I think some of you are reading the survey wrong.  It's 1 is not satisfied...10 is satisfied.  The survey overwhelmingly shows fans are NOT satisfied with FO.  I doubt this is a PR ploy from the Redskins FO since if it is, they shot themselves in the foot.  

[SkinsFTW]

14 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said:

  I doubt this is a PR ploy from the Redskins FO since if it is, they shot themselves in the foot.  

 

Wile E Coyote = Redskins.

 

If they change the team name I want the ACME emblem on the helmet.

 

 

 

[Bacon]

Didn't give higher than a 6 to anything, occasionally much lower. It's a pretty crappy franchise and needs a full overhaul, but I'm not leaving now.