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  2. thesubmittedone

    Why are we this bad on the field?

    I just about had a heart attack, huh? So silly. I don't even remember the last time I engaged with you, but I'd like to see the post you're talking about because I know damn well you don't get to me as much as you think you do. I think you have this habit of projecting your emotions onto others. I know those things aren't mutually exclusive, but that has never had anything to do with the issues anyone takes with your ideas. Your description above of how you think you present your views is way off. Not a single soul you debate will agree that the above is all there is to it. You flip flop at will and stand on very little outside of defending Dan/Bruce. You will take positions at one time that are completely contradictory at another time without even realizing it because it fits that desire. @Skinsinparadise has detailed this for you many, many times, and yet you either ignore it completely or just dismiss it like it has no basis. The biggest issue, to me, is the way you view anyone who professes anything similar to what I do as having bad motives or an agenda other than wanting what's best for the team, when in reality you're just (again) projecting and being hypocritical. The "fan discontent" is and was never something you can neatly organize into one overarching sphere. There are some who flail at everything with negativity (of which is one of the main reasons I engage on this topic of coaching) and there others who don't. I've always viewed my "fan discontent" as coming from a source of empathy for the players and coaches. More than anything, I want them set up for success. That's it. Recognizing the bigger picture that is resource management at the executive level in the NFL is just that. You see, we're coming from the standpoint of recognizing who is ultimately responsible for the failures of the franchise and we attempt, with sound reasoning, to identify who are the assets within the building versus the liabilities. We also recognize that, simply by virtue of their respective titles and roles, those underneath the Owner/Team President are hindered significantly in every aspect of their jobs. That they're dynamic and not static entities and can, therefore, have their strengths diminished and weaknesses highlighted or vice versa over time and are much more significantly impacted by their bosses than most think. It's really not rocket science. You just conflate the team itself with the Owner/TP. That's all it is. It's what most fans do. It's what I did myself before 2013, really. You think we "hate the Redskins" because we recognize just how bad Dan/Bruce are at their respective roles and how their positions affect everyone else's. It bothers you so much you have trouble recognizing the various perspectives and nuanced approaches we bring to the table about it. You'd rather lump us all in one category. Furthermore, you project your own deceptive methods of argumentation onto all of us. I'll get into that later. You'd be surprised that had you listened more instead of just seeing red all the time as soon as you see our usernames, you may have actually found allies instead of enemies in us. Yeah, I think you're backtracking here. You can call it a joke, don't care, I'll stand by my interpretation of it. Because even if it was a terribly written joke that, in context, doesn't flow well at all... it still remains the truth that you misconstrue our positions all the time. So either you lack in reading comprehension or you just don't read it. I'll continue to go with the latter because I'd rather not question your intelligence directly. And, no, I don't trust you on that regarding the bolded above. The twitter thing wasn't directed at you, anyway, but I think you come into the vast majority of your debates with preconceived notions based on the reaction the username you're looking at elicits in you. Like I said, you'd be surprised just how much your own views would adjust if you didn't and how, truly, most of us are just fans wanting what's best. Minimizing the nature of NFL coaching as a counter-response to the over-emphasis of it. Not minimizing it in general, again, something you can't seem to grasp. Not crazy talk at all. You seem to struggle with the nature of debate. When one is countering a position that has been made clear and understood by all parties, they're not giving an all-encompassing treatise repeating that position. I would create a thread separately and do that if I wanted. Ok, let's see this "healthy exchange of posts on the matter" and how they "come off". I'm going to give quotes from every single one of my posts on the topic here the last couple months and I want everyone to see how it "comes off". Here are the quotes (bolded for emphasis): I mean, shall I go on? How could I be talking about progression/regression, dynamic versus static entities, strengths/weaknesses, etc... at the rate I do in virtually every post I make about the topic if, as you say, I view them as just "figureheads" that have "no impact"? How does any of the above really make sense, then? So, yeah, there's no other way to describe your posts here as anything other than a misrepresentation. Show me where I ever said coaches don't "truly impact the game"? Why are you phrasing it this way? I've NEVER SAID THAT. I've always maintained that they do, just not to the degree so many think on the surface level. I detail why as a counter to the over-emphasis people place on it. Saying they do matter but not as much as people assume... how is that "kind of funny"? Are you kidding me? You know what I think is happening here? I think you're projecting. You're so used to flip flopping and changing your opinion on a whim so long as it "fits your personal narrative" (like you had the audacity to tell me) that you think I'm doing the same thing. I truly hope that the posts above were enough to show you, by quoting myself and bolding what is relevant, that I've always been consistent on the matter and have had a firm grasp of my own perspective/views/philosophy regarding this for a long time. I promise, I can go back years and it'll be largely be the same. I never contradicted my ideas just because it was prudent at a certain time and so it can fit neatly into whatever agenda I have. The only explanation I have as to why you think I'm doing it is because you're projecting. Again, it's something YOU have a habit of doing so you assume we all do. Again, this is because: 1) You simply don't understand the argument I'm making, and; 2) You don't understand how debate/argumentation normally works. Often times when I'm responding, within a thread, it is, well, A RESPONSE to what is already being said. When you mention the impact of coaching and all its nuance, that has already been established not only within the thread I'm responding in but all over the board and everywhere else football is discussed. In fact, radio and TV talk are one of the biggest culprits of it. They over-emphasize coaching because that's the exciting topic that can generate emotion. Do you think anyone wants to sit and listen to cap numbers, draft pick success, and general resource management for extended periods of time? Of course not! But what gets the consumer's blood pumping? Play-calling, in-game occurrences and decisions, etc... And, yet, even in my responses, as I've shown above, the position I have has been consistent. I've never downplayed what coaches do, just that what they do is more heavily impacted by their environment at the pro level than most think. So of course I'm honing in on the nuances of the FO job (which you claim to agree with)! That's the entire point! It's a counter response to what is otherwise misunderstood or lacking! Before Jay was fired, the board had most threads directed at coaching. It was something like 10 coaching-related threads to 2 or 3 FO related ones. I'm sure you're shocked by those numbers because you probably visit the Allen thread more than anything else, but that's the reality of fandom. That is actually the norm. The fact that now, more than ever, more people are starting to look at resource management with a more critical eye, GMs are viewed as essential to success and are getting the same type of media attention that coaches have normally received, and that fans are directing their ire towards the ownership/executive levels is actually a very new thing. And that's wonderful to me. The more it goes that way, the lesser you'll see me counter, I promise. Does that make sense? Now we're actually getting into the good stuff. Maybe I can detail my position better for you here than ever before since you're talking about the details and I can respond versus the ugly spat we've been having that is more about misconceptions. So, when you say "it's a well known fact that the disparity in talent level throughout the NFL is not as great as you may think", we need to define "talent level". What do you mean by that exactly? If it's physical talent, I agree. That is a fact. If it's football intelligence, spatial awareness, or just football "feel"? Nope, there can be a major gap between players there. And the latter is where scouts make their money. So that's the first part you're omitting when you say something like the disparity in talent level isn't as great as you think. It actually is considerably more than you think and identifying which players will translate is massive. If you labeled me as someone downplaying coaching, I think this is even a more egregious example of downplaying what scouts do and how vital evaluating talent is. I'm going to go through what you list here as exclusively related to the coaching realm and, hopefully, get you to ponder as to how it's just as much related to player acquisition. You mention schematics. Schematics are way more dependent on that talent and how their skill sets relate to one another. What may seem like a bad scheme on the surface can often be attributed to a poor assembly of skill sets. You mention tailoring to player's strengths. What if the player's don't have that many strengths? What if there's redundancy in terms of the strengths? What if those strengths don't relate as much as you'd want with the other players in a position group or even in another co-dependent position group? You mention adjustments. What if the player's intelligence is lacking? What if, no matter how much you coach and teach them, they simply don't get it? What if they do get it in the film room, but just aren't quick enough to recognize it on the field? What if the necessary adjustment means you take a way your best player's strengths? You mention getting players to buy in and motivation. Those are largely coaching items, I agree, but I don't think you realize how much organizational hierarchy comes into play here. If the coach is able to be undermined and players are able to be insubordinate, that's going to ruin his ability to do those things with any consistency. So that's another thing much more heavily dependent on the FO than you assume. You mention "preparedness from tempo and physicality in training camp practices to attention to detail while implementing game plans". Again, most of those are largely coaching items, but they also have to do with player ability, availability, and intelligence. As for implementing game plans, like scheme and "tailoring", it's largely dependent on the skill sets of the players and how they mesh. Now, none of this is even getting into how little we as fans have in terms of information regarding the above. We're simply not there every day with these players and the majority of media that report on practices, for instance, have very little in the realm of legitimate football knowledge. It's rare to see even the best of our local reporters talk about scheme or concepts that are being ran with any consistency. I'm going to address what you say here about my thoughts on HaHa at the time, but I wanted to focus on this first. The fact that you said "came out of hiding" is, man... I honestly am disgusted. Either I'm totally right about your lack of reading (or reading comprehension), or you're just a straight up classless, mean-spirited individual. You see, if you actually read that post I made about HaHa that you claim to "vividly remember", you'd remember that I started it with this: Really, dude? I "came out of hiding"!? At best, the comment is totally insensitive. At worst, well... I don't want to go there. But I appreciate you reminding me of that painful time. If I'm being honest, this is really incoherent and comes off as if you finally took the time to read my positions and found many of them to actually be valid, but you still wanted to make your point. First, I disagree he came in and sucked. He took longer than expected to adjust, which was unfortunate but not out of the ordinary with an in-season acquisition. His arrival, unfortunately again, quickly coincided with the total collapse of the offense due to injury (I believe Alex got hurt the second game he played?), which definitely had a negative impact on the defense as a whole. I don't know why that's automatically dismissed by you. Not to mention, we did try to re-sign him, so the top brass wanted him back. That would go against your assumption that he was indicative of a coaching failure, wouldn't it? Secondly, how is he doing right now with Chicago? According to PFF, he has a lesser overall grade than he did by the end of 2018. You might say that's all due to how he played in Green Bay, but I'd disagree since he was with us for quite some time and if his play was that much of a fall off it'd likely have affected his grade significantly. Thirdly, Safety play is really hard to judge. When I had made my post about HaHa I was more talking about the big picture of being aggressive as a Front Office when it calls for it. That's really what I loved about the move. I hadn't studied him myself at all and I was just going off of the love he was getting from PFF, which isn't exactly the best source of judgment. When you look at it deeper, you'll find that Green Bay was willing to move on from him because of his lack of physicality. He wasn't this great, all-around Safety there. And their defense isn't suffering right now without him at all. So maybe you're right, maybe there was some level of coaching failure that happened with him. And I'm more inclined to agree that there are coaching issues on the defensive side of the ball. But it's hard to tell from where we're sitting. That's just the reality. Here are my posts in their entirety at the time about the move (bolded the relevant parts for emphasis) that show I didn't think it was automatically a sure thing, but that I was more talking big picture: As for Preston Smith, like you already mentioned, I struck those two examples down and I think I did so with authority. Nothing you said here refutes any of it and goes back to what I said about you finally reading what I was saying but still wanted to drive your point home forcibly. The problem is, it doesn't address what I struck down at all. Preston, by the way, was actually really good here. He had awesome pressure rates, just the sack numbers didn't follow. Some of us really liked him a lot and would defend him here, including myself and @Skinsinparadise. I think just looking at sacks isn't always the best way to assess edge play. That being said, he's been awesome in Green Bay and is definitely the best version of himself. So, yeah, it might be a coaching failure, it might not. I don't think we can say either way like you're doing here. There was a lot of talk here that Preston was too into the DC night life. Going to Green Bay may have been the perfect change of scenery for him since their nightlife doesn't compare at all. It's very possible that is the difference as opposed to anything the coaches could've done differently. You could argue they should've disciplined him more in that case, but that'd mean we'd be relying on his depth which they recognized did more harm than good overall. Again, we just don't know. But what bothers me here is, again, you didn't address how I "struck down" those two examples before. If you did read it, then you know that the inherent problem with pointing out examples like Preston as coaching failures is that there are way more players who went elsewhere and haven't played as well (or just maintained their level of play). Again, I listed many of those players in what you claim to have read, showing by that logic you'd have to actually praise the coaches more. I don't even agree with that logic, though. There are too many environmental factors to consider in each individual case regarding these players to just point at regression or improvement as indicative of coaching. So, yeah, your overly simplistic "it's a coaching failure, plain and simple" stuff is exactly what I'm countering. That's what gets more proliferated than anything else, hence what I choose to "hone in on". That's how debate works. It doesn't mean I believe coaching has no impact, as I've detailed now a million times, but even more than that it often is an expression of recognizing our lack of information as fans on the matter as well as our inability to decipher it properly based on our distance. It's basically saying "we don't really know, so let's avoid acting like we do". And that differs considerably regarding identifying problems with resource management and accountability at the ownership/executive levels simply by virtue of their titles, their ultimate authority, and thus the final results they are responsible for.
  3. Gibbs Hog Heaven

    ES Soccer Thread

    So Engalnd fans boo the innocent victim Gomez. And people wonder why we say 'Scouse, NOT. English!' F them! Excellent piece below from McNulty, who's a blue of all people, this morning on the BBC website in support of Joe. Even if, like £terlings admission after the game, and Southgate and the rest of the team supporting him after the game, it comes three days too late. A young England player shouldn't be hung out to dry in front of some of the neanderthals that follow England before he gets the vindication for being the TOTALLY innocent party he should have gotten 3 days ago. Maybe if you'd not allowed the scandalous narrative of this being a two-way 'confrontation' to foster for three days Gareth, with all the connotations therein, you wouldn't be needing to address this again? Again, F THEM! Hail.
  4. Today
  5. Panninho

    2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

    I agree but he is still a young player, only his third season and I feel like he got better every year. It's tough to find realiable starters along the O-line. Sure, everyone wants a Jason Kelce type of center but how high are the chances of finding one? And it's not like Kelce dominated right from the start.
  6. Skin'emAlive

    ***2019 Miracle Nationals WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS***

    I think relegation would be best, but obviously that won’t happen. So, IMO 3-5 year post season ban, multiple draft pick ban, and life time bans to members involved.
  7. Wildbunny

    Is this the worst Redskins team in the last 20 years?

    Don't remember who wrote it, thinks it was from Finlay or someone from the Times but definately not sure. Dan right now might be in "doesn't care anymore" and just care about being the owner of his childhood team. Which could explain a lot as well....
  8. abdcskins

    Sports Wagering thread

    3-2 last week, 31-22 on the year. I should've waited a day to place my wager on the Bills, I would've gotten another half point and a push. Oh well. Still in the positive. Notre Dame -7 Rams -6 Falcons +4.5 Jaguars +3 Jets +2
  9. visionary

    The Impeachment Thread

  10. PartyPosse

    2019 Game Day Thread

    For me it’s some of the classic brawls of the 80s in hockey and even the 90s. The Bertuzzi hit on Steve Moore, Marty Mcsorley smacking Brashear in his head with a stick, Claude Lemieux basically murdering Kris Draper etc
  11. PartyPosse

    2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

    I imagine the culture isn’t nearly as bad we think and how it’s reported. Besides, we’re still an nfl franchise, one of only 32 In The league. Players become accustomed a system and create lives for themselves within the community. It’s not an easy thing to just move on.
  12. Bacon

    Fantasy Football 2019

    Just checking in to say that my team has scored 28 points less than our league leader and I'm 4-6. It's one of those seasons.
  13. abdcskins

    Random Thought Thread

    Funny thing is Rudolph won't get any punishment for instigating the fight. I wasn't that shocked by what Garrett did. Didn't even think it was that bad. *shrug* whatever.
  14. Chew

    Random Thought Thread

    Yeah man, wtf. He should be done for the year. Loved watching the oline jump his ass. The innanet is so quick:
  15. Malapropismic Depository

    PFT: League has discussed possibility of Chargers moving to London

    Then they'd have to change the league name from NFL to IFL. And then, which conference would it make sense, to put the London team in ?
  16. China

    Random Thought Thread

    Yeah that was pretty horrible. I wonder how long of a suspension he'll get.
  17. CousinsCowgirl84

    2019 Game Day Thread

    yeah, i hear they work security during large events....
  18. Malapropismic Depository

    2019 Game Day Thread

    I wonder if one of his coaches told him something like that phrase "It's ok to win ugly" and he took it too literally. Another ironic thing about this, is it's the kind of thing that I would expect from a losing team that's been frustrated by an embarrassing loss. I didn't watch the game, so I was surprised to find out that frustration was carried out by a player on the winning team.
  19. Cooleyfan1993

    2019 Game Day Thread

    Apparently the Cleveland police were seen walking out of the browns locker room?
  20. nonniey

    2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

    Kinda of agree with that but the problem is I can't see any Redskin player that would want to resign with the Redskins at this point, if given another choice. I imagine most would even play for less (not a lot less I imagine) for another team.
  21. CousinsCowgirl84

    2019 Game Day Thread

    well, like Garret said, a wins a win, he might as well cherish it since it’s the last win he’ll get to be a part of this season,
  22. Malapropismic Depository

    2019 Game Day Thread

    But usually they have protection over their heads. Helmet to head, is what makes this like no other incident. Rudolph isn't blameless of course, but what he did, could arguably be considered just an in-game penalty, and not deserving a suspension and/or fine. If you try to imagine Rudolph's action all by itself in a game, with no response by the other player, I don't think people would be calling for him to be suspended or fined. But because the other player chose to escalate it even more, it seems like a knee-jerk reaction by people to say that Rudolph deserves extra discipline.
  23. Fergasun

    2019 Game Day Thread

    I kind've think they are paid to be emotionally violent and this is part of it. Stupid to be surprised that this could happen... and act like it is the worst thing in the world. 4 games... seems reasonable... So dumb if he is charged with crime... 11 men assaulting 11 men on every play.
  24. Malapropismic Depository

    2019 Game Day Thread

    I'm not saying it should factor into the suspension, but I kind of feel for Rudolph a little extra for the helmet-to-skull hit, considering only a few weeks ago, he suffered one of the worst-looking concussions I've ever seen. Just strange irony there.
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