WP: In survey, Redskins ask fans for their level of confidence in team’s executives

[The Sisko]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:18 AM, NewCliche21 said:

 

That's a big point.  Most of us simply are giving a vote of no confidence.  If Allen is here, then I don't see us winning.  That's what made me stop being an STH and stops me from going to games.

You mean his stellar record with the Bucs isn’t enough to inspire faith and unbridled optimism? ??

[MarkB452]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 8:33 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 5:08 AM, bedlamVR said:

Scott McGloughlan is still not a GM in one of the 32 other franchises - 

 

It's Scot McCloughan.

....and there are only 31 other franchises...(...unless they snuck one in there over the holidays.......)

[SkinsFTW]

From this website I found what a winner is to Dan Snyder:

 

" “Bruce Allen is the personification of an NFL winner. Our fans know his heritage; we know his abilities. He is the right person to lead our club.” – Redskins owner Dan Snyder 

 

http://www.redskins.com/team/staff/bruce-allen/8b8b7f97-4020-4ef5-b118-ccba59222e9c

 

[JSSkinz]

Recently I had the pleasure to meet a 2 time Superbowl champion from our glory days, he happens to be good friends with my brother in law, they both grew up playing high school football in PA at the same time.

 

Anyway, this was an ex-Redskins Superbowl champion (2X) that told me to my face we would "NEVER" win another Superbowl until Dan Snyder was gone or completely changed his ways, I tried to pry a bit for specifics but received friendly pushback so I just dropped it.

 

I've read a lot of negative reports on Snyder over the years but whether it's on ES or in the media its typically "unnamed sources" so I try to give the benefit of the doubt unless there is solid proof behind the report.

 

It was shocking to hear it in person directly from someone who knows what it takes to win a championship.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

The problem is if Dan fires Bruce he probably has to hire somebody he doesn’t know.  If, for example he hired the guy the Giants just got, he’d have to relinquish control over the organization structure and probably be in for a HC change also.

 

All of these things are uncomfortable.

 

Dan doesn’t like to do things that are uncomfortable.

 

hence we have Bruce and Jay.  And .500 every year.

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

Recently I had the pleasure to meet a 2 time Superbowl champion from our glory days, he happens to be good friends with my brother in law, they both grew up playing high school football in PA at the same time.

 

Anyway, this was an ex-Redskins Superbowl champion (2X) that told me to my face we would "NEVER" win another Superbowl until Dan Snyder was gone or completely changed his ways, I tried to pry a bit for specifics but received friendly pushback so I just dropped it.

 

I've read a lot of negative reports on Snyder over the years but whether it's on ES or in the media its typically "unnamed sources" so I try to give the benefit of the doubt unless there is solid proof behind the report.

 

It was shocking to hear it in person directly from someone who knows what it takes to win a championship.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well he's really going out on a limb there, isn't he? 

 

I'd have liked to have heard his reasoning though.

 

The past few weeks I've been thinking about where we are as a fanbase.  Obviously disgruntled and for good reasons.  However, I wonder what it's like to be a Browns fan right about now.  I'm not saying we should be re-assessing our distaste for management of this franchise and say "At least we don't have it THAT bad..." But I wonder if it'd be easier to look forward to the future if you're a Cleveland fan.

 

We aren't the worst team in the league.  Assuming we win Sunday, we're average.  

 

So why doesn't it feel this way?

[zoony]

57 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Well he's really going out on a limb there, isn't he? 

 

I'd have liked to have heard his reasoning though.

 

The past few weeks I've been thinking about where we are as a fanbase.  Obviously disgruntled and for good reasons.  However, I wonder what it's like to be a Browns fan right about now.  I'm not saying we should be re-assessing our distaste for management of this franchise and say "At least we don't have it THAT bad..." But I wonder if it'd be easier to look forward to the future if you're a Cleveland fan.

 

We aren't the worst team in the league.  Assuming we win Sunday, we're average.  

 

So why doesn't it feel this way?

 

I think its an exciting time to be a Browns fan.  Paul Depodesta has them picking 15 times in next years draft and they just hired a great GM.  Theyre going to be an absolute handful in the coming years

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 I wonder what it's like to be a Browns fan right about now.

 

I mean, it's seriously down to 1 team!!!

 

Once Cousins is gone the circus can recommence like it's 2009 once again!!!

 

 

[shawniden]

Quit hating on Kirk, he's done everything right. We were once a proud franchise, 91' and before, since then, only the browns can make us look good. Over the past three yrs, we've all had hope, even decent and good players have signed. Why? Cousins. Final Answer. Oh you lose Kirk, you lose a lot more fans, and I hope they don't show them on tv. I'll be a Rams fan, or what ever team he is on. But truth, I believe he stays.

[skins island connection]

6 hours ago, shawniden said:

Quit hating on Kirk, he's done everything right. We were once a proud franchise, 91' and before, since then, only the browns can make us look good. Over the past three yrs, we've all had hope, even decent and good players have signed. Why? Cousins. Final Answer. Oh you lose Kirk, you lose a lot more fans, and I hope they don't show them on tv. I'll be a Rams fan, or what ever team he is on. But truth, I believe he stays.

 

 I think there are a lot of Redskin fans who are pulling for the Rams, me being one of them.

They have our OC as their HC, a great guy and a very smart guy, who has turned a Rams team around from being an embarrassment to a serious contender in 1 year. And the Rams are playing like the Redskins of 2015, hard nosed, and fun to watch.

 

But, Cousins COULD  have played this a little differently, even though I personally feel he has been wronged, contract-wise. But, if you look at it, the contract he was offered wasn't THAT bad; yes, it may not have been for the number of guaranteed years and/or dollar amount he wanted, but still that's a helluva lot of money to turn away from.

 

Kirk has taken the high road, understandably, but there is the other side of the coin hypothetically speaking. If he indeed wanted 3-4 years guaranteed, whats to say in 2-3 years the dysfunction in the FO is just as bad or even worse; he would be stuck on a team that's going nowhere, and the FO is doing nothing to help him  player-wise. It would be wise for him to switch teams.

 

The way some ESers are talking, its quite possible that nothing is done regarding Bruce Allen; that will not bode well with Cousins. He wants to be a winner, like every other player on the team, but if the FO doesn't have the vision then the team will go nowhere and remain a 8-8 or 7-9 team forever, and the atmosphere in the locker room would deteriorate eventually, which helps no one.

 

This is why no one has any faith or belief in the FO. They are incompetent. Allen's track record and shady dealings on and off-field speaks for itself. But still, in the grand scheme of things, hypothetically, Cousins could have simply signed the LTC offered even though it might have been a low-ball offer and he still would have made more money than the combined salaries of ESers, so it is a double-edged sword, but one side is much sharper than the other...

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

Kirk has taken the high road, understandably, but there is the other side of the coin hypothetically speaking. If he indeed wanted 3-4 years guaranteed, whats to say in 2-3 years the dysfunction in the FO is just as bad or even worse; he would be stuck on a team that's going nowhere, and the FO is doing nothing to help him  player-wise. It would be wise for him to switch teams.

 

If you take basically a 2 year guaranteed contract in a 5 year deal -- the team controls your rights even after that 2nd year so they can cut you off whenever they want.  If I recall the injury part of the guaranteed isn't that much or maybe it covers the third year but after that you can get hurt and its your tough luck if it happens.

 

The fully guaranteed money and the AAV combination is behind enough the Luck, Stafford, Carr contract to the degree where it would plainly come off like McCartney-Kirk lost the deal and Bruce won it big.  Bruce in effect wore them down.  So he was smart after all playing the hand he did.  If Kirk has some loyalty to his agent and it sounds like he does.  It wouldn't have helped McCartney's career to basically get handled by Bruce -- let alone if its true that Kirk-Kirk's agent don't love Bruce so why would they hand him such a victory.

 

According to Albert Breer, a big undercurrent of this contract is Bruce wants to look like he won the deal.  

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Bruce wins the deal if he lock Kirk up for 5 years.  That is how he wins. He is too arrogant to see that?

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

 

  hypothetically, Cousins could have simply signed the LTC offered even though it might have been a low-ball offer and he still would have made more money than the combined salaries of ESers, so it is a double-edged sword, but one side is much sharper than the other...

 

Sorry this is a silly argument. Making more than the rest of us combined does not mean anything in regards to the size of the contract Kirk ends up signing.  

[zoony]

Now would be a great time for snyder to exhibit REAL leadership for a change.  Call Gruden into your office, thank him profusely for the work he has done and talk to him about his future.  If he wants to be the coach again, publically endorse him for next season, or have BA do it.  Ditto Cousins.  Or, if there is a reason to fire or let go either, do that too.

 

Snyder doesnt want to publically endorse either because he is a little boy and afraid how it will look if they leave.  His ego couldnt handle that because he is a fragile and weak person.  Leadership means putting yourswlf out there and putting your trust in others.  Snyder cant do that, and never will

 

Right now i just read a quote from gruden saying he was unsure of his future.  Been reading the same from cousins.  What a joke.

 

 

[ThomasRoane]

My response to the survey would be a scale of "cautiously optimistic" to "Oh no, we suck again!" 

 

Cautiously optimistic.  If we can get Kirk locked up and promote or fire Bruce Allen so he is out of personnel matters then I am cautiously optimistic about the future.  There are still a lot of needs (TE that can block and catch, #1 Receiver, LG, <maybe a RB but we don't know yet because blocking is horrible> on offense; NG, Pass rush DE that scares the hell out of teams, and possibly a MLB on defense - maybe depth at safety; Punt/Kick returner with an attitude and wheels)  Generally, I would consider the arrow as pointing up if Kirk is back. 

 

Oh now, we suck again!  HOWEVER!  If we fail to lock up Kirk then it all goes to hell in a hand basket.  Kirk has proven this year that he can still get you over 4K yards (with 65 yds Sunday) and 25 TD's with pedestrian receivers and no run game.  Give him some help and who knows how good we can be?!?!  But, I am not willing to bet on the next "can't miss" college kid.  Especially Baker Mayfield who will be a huge bust!  (But he's scrappy and has an attitude!  So did Johnny Football who is begging to get a chance in the CFL).  If the FO doesn't make a legitimate offer to lock up the best QB the team has had in over 20 years then what the hell are we (the fans) wasting our time rooting for this franchise for?!?!

 

My recommendation is to post up another survey AFTER the Cousins situation is resolved.  That would be a great comparison. 

[BurgundyBooger]

9 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Bruce wins the deal if he lock Kirk up for 5 years.  That is how he wins. He is too arrogant to see that?

 

Remember Tom Cruise in Risky Business? How he went through hell to clean up his own mess and lost a lot of money just to put things back in order before his parents came home? To Bruce, that's what signing Kirk to a long-term deal would feel like. Locking Kirk up wouldn't reflect favorably on his business acumen so much as be an admission to the contrary and demonstrate to the masses that this grown man can clean up his own mess.

 

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

@ThomasRoane we need a back. Agree with just about everything in your post, but we need a back.

 

heres what I would do:  I would have the Stafford deal + 5% in an envelope and hand it to Kirk after the Giants game.  If he takes it, you know your answer.  If he counters, you’re talking.  This is an answer of sorts. If he rejects it and doesn’t counter, that’s also an answer.  But you will know within a week where you stand.

 

under no circumstance would I tag him and drag negotiations on through to the summer.  It’s time to poop or get off the pot.  

 

And you need to know right at the beginning of the off season if QB has to be the top priority. 

 

That said, my confidence in Bruce to figure that out is 0 on a scale of 1 to 100. We’ll call these confidence points.

 

My gut is that they threaten the tag again, and take the negotiations all the way up to the tag deadline, then slap a tag on him. If they do this, I’d “add” -15 confidence points.  

 

Also, I’m betting that they over pay for Grant, don’t do anything meaningful at TE, sign a “cheap and available” WR, and probably roll with Kelley as the starter again.

 

that would “add” an additional -20 confidence points confidence.

 

if Cousins leaves and they hand the ball to McCoy without drafting a QB of the future, i’d add another -50 confidence points. 

 

The only way Bruce get’s off of empty is if they lock up Cousins, address TE in a meaningful way (which includes cutting Davis or Reed, signing a TE who can start, block and catch.) and don’t go into the season thinking Grant and Kelley are starters. 

 

I dont think hunk they’ve got anything but status quo in them.  

[PleaseBlitz]

10 hours ago, zoony said:

Now would be a great time for snyder to exhibit REAL leadership for a change.  Call Gruden into your office, thank him profusely for the work he has done and talk to him about his future.  If he wants to be the coach again, publically endorse him for next season, or have BA do it.  Ditto Cousins.  Or, if there is a reason to fire or let go either, do that too.

 

Snyder doesnt want to publically endorse either because he is a little boy and afraid how it will look if they leave.  His ego couldnt handle that because he is a fragile and weak person.  Leadership means putting yourswlf out there and putting your trust in others.  Snyder cant do that, and never will

 

Right now i just read a quote from gruden saying he was unsure of his future.  Been reading the same from cousins.  What a joke.

 

 

 

Strongly agree with this excellent take. 

 

My take is, in a nutshell, that the executives (The Danny and Bruce) are terrible, Gruden is good to very good, it is a shame what they did to Cousins and Scot McCloughan, and the fan experience sucks balls. I am resigned to this franchise being miserable as long as Danny calls the shots and there is zero reason to believe, at this point, that he will ever not be a ****ty owner. 

[ThomasRoane]

16 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@ThomasRoane we need a back. Agree with just about everything in your post, but we need a back.

 

 

 

Agree with everything you wrote.  To elaborate, I'm sure we'll need a legit 3-down back with break away speed.  What I meant to write is that if we fix the TE blocking and improve the Dline then I don't think we need to push all our chips in on a back in the first round.  Personally, I'd rather see the team take a Pass rush LB/DE, Blocking & Receiving TE, or a future pro bowl left guard.  All attainable in the middle of the 1st and the team wouldn't have to trade up.  (Now, they need a legit #1 receiver but I think they're going to have to get a FA - like a Jarvis Landry.  College receivers take too long to develop and the offense needs a guy that can win 1v1 matchups in 2018 - Doctson is a #2 at best and Crowder a #3 slot receiver). 

 

I LOVE Saquan Barkley from PSU but I think asking him to drop like Jonathan Allen did last year is unreasonable.  And he's the only back I see coming out of college that looks like he has the durability, break away speed, pass pro acumen, and desire that it takes to be a top NFL back.  The team could wait until 2019 to get their guy.  I would put the team priorities in the draft in this order:

 

1) Pass rush LB/DE (may need a TE more but you can never pass up a guy who strikes fear in the opponents QB.  Nataniel Adibi played for me and passed on some wisdom from Dwight Freeny.  This is how you spell sacks:  $ack$)

2) Complete TE

3) LG

4) Interior DLine (NG or DE)

5) Punt/Kick Returner

 

Like you, if Bruce Allen is involved in any manner in this decision making then my confidence points drop dramatically

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Agree with everything you wrote. 

Well thanks.  Blushing.  

 

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

To elaborate, I'm sure we'll need a legit 3-down back with break away speed.  What I meant to write is that if we fix the TE blocking and improve the Dline then I don't think we need to push all our chips in on a back in the first round. 

I agree with this. I'd prefer not to have to spend a first round pick on a RB.

 

The way I see it, what you need is the ability to cause a defense to react to your offense by personnel.  There are plenty of ways of going about this.  If you have a complete stud WR, like Julio Jones, OBJ, Antonio Brown, you immediately force defenses to adjust.  They have to roll coverage, and defend all of the field.  You can then compliment that with above average RB/TE/WR play, and you can scare a defense.

 

Alternatively, you can go the Dallas cowboys route, and have a RB/run game that is terrifying.  This causes you to drop more players in the box, and that opens things up for WRs on the outside.

 

You could go the Patriot way and use a TE (and I don't even want to hear that Reed is as good as Gronk at anything.  He's not.  Period.).  But using a TE also means that your OC has to be super creative, and get production from the run game and outside receivers to some extent, or the TE is rendered useless.  (See, Redskins, Washington.)

 

Now, if you happen to have one of the best WRs in the game (Bryant), RBs in the game (Bell), and a future HOF QB (Big Ben), plus a top 10 defense, you are a SB contender.  

 

So, for the 'Skins, I think they need to plan to get ONE piece, commit to it, and then find complimentary pieces.  Honestly, the easiest route is probably to grab the best RB you can in the draft, and commit to that, and sign good complimentary receivers in FA.  The problem with that is the timeline is backwards, you have to sign the WRs before you get the RB. 

 

You can fix TE in the draft. The guy that Cooley raves about from Wisconsin is one guy, there are others.  They need to part ways with either Reed or Davis.  I'd get rid of both and just start over.  But that's me.  

 

The fact is if you don't fix the TE and WR blocking situation, you could have the reincarnation of Walter Payton in the backfield, and he'd still get hit 2 yards behind the LOS.  Now, Walter could probably make something of that because he was one of the GOATs, but not as much as he could if he wasn't being hit in the backfield.  

 

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

Personally, I'd rather see the team take a Pass rush LB/DE, Blocking & Receiving TE, or a future pro bowl left guard.  All attainable in the middle of the 1st and the team wouldn't have to trade up.  (Now, they need a legit #1 receiver but I think they're going to have to get a FA - like a Jarvis Landry.  College receivers take too long to develop and the offense needs a guy that can win 1v1 matchups in 2018 - Doctson is a #2 at best and Crowder a #3 slot receiver). 

I think you can solve TE in round 2 or 3.  I think you can solve LG in FA.  God, I hope you can solve LG in FA.  

 

I'd use the first round pick on a RB or an interior DL.  UNLESS you honestly to god think a healthy Allen, Ioannidis, and Lanier are the answer inside, and they can be impactful for an entire season.  If that's the case, then you an focus more on the outside rush.  

 

The problem with outside rushers is that if the interior is not stout, the QB just steps up and avoids pressure.  I'm starting to really believe that the interior pass rush is more important than outside speed rushers.  Ideally, you have both.  But I'd take interior over outside at the moment.  

 

As far as Doctson is concerned, the plan should be that he's competing with a vet for a spot.  He should not be counted on to be a starter.  He has not shown enough to have earned that right.  And that very cannot be Ryan Grant.  It has to be a legitimate WR who has started and been productive.  

 

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

Like you, if Bruce Allen is involved in any manner in this decision making then my confidence points drop dramatically

Bruce Allen can't put together a roster. And quite frankly, it's not his job to do so, so he shouldn't.  Jay Gruden shouldn't be in charge of putting together a roster, he relies too much on "try hard" guys that know the scheme, and not enough on talent.  The question is going to be Doug Williams, with his new fancy title.  If Doug is actually empowered to make decisions, he is the one guy that can actually get everybody together.  If he's just a validation to Gruden, then we're going to roll out the same group of misfit toys all over again, and the results will be,predictably, the same.  

[skinfan2k]

This offense needs a back like Demarco Murray.  

[Veretax]

I will be honest, I felt Bruce and Jay and Kirk would be back.  But after this Giants game.   I can't blame Snyder if he fires bruce, hangs onto jay, brings in a new GM and gives him 2 years to evaluate Jay before having to make a coach decision.

AS for cousins  Least Clutch skins QB ever.  Even Brunnel Had more clutch in him, on tired legs.

I know, the OL is beat up, and the giants have been all over him all game long, but you cannot throw a pick in the middle of the field when your team needs to hold onto the ball.  I'm ready to bring in a journeyman or let Colt lead the team for a year, if that's what it takes now.  This makes me want to just vomit them out right now.  We have a few good players, but we are no closer to being a strong team year in and year out, and even if they could by some miracle retain cousins long term (there is no point to franchise him at this point, its time to cut bait if you aren't going to negotiate long term)

[Csup]

On 12/30/2017 at 2:42 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

Bruce Allen can't put together a roster 

I’m not sure if he can tie his own shoes.

[allskinz]

With Jon Gruden being slated to be the head coach of the Raiders we should probably lock Bruce up for another 10 years before he steals him.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

50 minutes ago, allskinz said:

With Jon Gruden being slated to be the head coach of the Raiders we should probably lock Bruce up for another 10 years before he steals him.

 

Jon is smart enough to know that Bruce got him fired once and is in the process of getting Jay fired, so I’m thinking The closest Bruce gets to the raiders is an alumni Christmas card list.