WP: In survey, Redskins ask fans for their level of confidence in team’s executives

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, zoony said:

 

I always wonder if it really even bothers him... knowing that all of the owners in the nfl dont respect him, and his organization is the whipping post for better organizations.  If it were me, id be embarassed...knowing that im just a little **** among all my peers.  Guess he doesnt care.

I actually don't believe he doesn't care. I also believe that he might be embarrassed.  

 

I actually think that something else is going on.  Let's look at his professional career.  He started Snyder Communications when he was 25 years old.  They focused on marketing in doctors offices.  They expanded aggressively, mostly through acquisition.  

 

He was young, the economy was booming, and he had a lot of success, through force of personality and hard work.  I respect both of those things.

 

But what he didn't have to do, which most executives have to go through, is working within a team, learning how teams are built and operate, and understanding organizational management.  Because he kinda missed that step of professional development, he's relying on the two things that made him rich: force of personality and work.  

 

The problem is, those are not what he needs to be a good owner.  What he needs is to understand what the organization needs to look like (organization design), and then:

 

1. Assigning Responsibility

2. Giving Authority

3. Having Accountability

 

Every successful organization in the world has those three things, whether explicitly or implicitly.  

 

But Dan doesn't know how to do this.  He WANTS to trust Bruce, because he LIKES Bruce.  And Bruce probably tells him things he WANTS to believe.

 

However, Bruce isn't in the right job, and that's Dan's fault.  Bruce isn't a football personnel guy.  And he should NEVER have that authority.  He should be allowed to work on other things in the organization (if necessary), but he shouldn't be involved in football.

 

You need a football guy to do that. Look at Philly, and what Roseman has been able to accomplish.  We need THAT guy. Even if you think Bruce is a great dude and good at contracts, he's not THAT guy.  And he shouldn't be allowed to have that role.

 

Dan isn't good at doing things that make him uncomfortable.  The right thing to do is to restructure Bruce out of Football ops (or fire him, I don't care), and bring in an honest to God GM and give them full authority over the football ops.  Let them pick the coach they want to work with, and then the two of them work together to build the organization.  However, this is not something that's comfortable to do. 

 

I'm NOT suggesting, btw that the owner should ever be told to go away and sit in the corner.  He owns the team.  So he needs to be kept in the loop, and he needs to be consulted.  However, you have to find people who are better at giving advice than Bruce.

 

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I actually don't believe he doesn't care. I also believe that he might be embarrassed.  

 

I actually think that something else is going on.  Let's look at his professional career.  He started Snyder Communications when he was 25 years old.  They focused on marketing in doctors offices.  They expanded aggressively, mostly through acquisition.  

 

He was young, the economy was booming, and he had a lot of success, through force of personality and hard work.  I respect both of those things.

 

But what he didn't have to do, which most executives have to go through, is working within a team, learning how teams are built and operate, and understanding organizational management.  Because he kinda missed that step of professional development, he's relying on the two things that made him rich: force of personality and work.  

 

The problem is, those are not what he needs to be a good owner.  What he needs is to understand what the organization needs to look like (organization design), and then:

 

1. Assigning Responsibility

2. Giving Authority

3. Having Accountability

 

Every successful organization in the world has those three things, whether explicitly or implicitly.  

 

But Dan doesn't know how to do this.  He WANTS to trust Bruce, because he LIKES Bruce.  And Bruce probably tells him things he WANTS to believe.

 

However, Bruce isn't in the right job, and that's Dan's fault.  Bruce isn't a football personnel guy.  And he should NEVER have that authority.  He should be allowed to work on other things in the organization (if necessary), but he shouldn't be involved in football.

 

You need a football guy to do that. Look at Philly, and what Roseman has been able to accomplish.  We need THAT guy. Even if you think Bruce is a great dude and good at contracts, he's not THAT guy.  And he shouldn't be allowed to have that role.

 

Dan isn't good at doing things that make him uncomfortable.  The right thing to do is to restructure Bruce out of Football ops (or fire him, I don't care), and bring in an honest to God GM and give them full authority over the football ops.  Let them pick the coach they want to work with, and then the two of them work together to build the organization.  However, this is not something that's comfortable to do. 

 

I'm NOT suggesting, btw that the owner should ever be told to go away and sit in the corner.  He owns the team.  So he needs to be kept in the loop, and he needs to be consulted.  However, you have to find people who are better at giving advice than Bruce.

 

100% spot on in every way.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

100% spot on in every way.

Awww thanks.  (Blushing).

 

I'll add one thing: In his previous role of building Snyder Communications, he was very shrewd, young and aggressive. And that didn't translate to being an owner of an NFL team, where sometimes you have to think less about the immediate bottom line, and more about the team as a public trust.  Sure, you're going to make money, and you should, it's an investment and a business.

 

But how you build a marketing empire vs. how you run a football team are different.  And while I think he's actually learning in some ways, he's still not very good at it.

 

He has developed more patience.  I think the Dan Snyder of 2003 would have fired Jay after the season, injuries or no.  He might/might not have fired Bruce.  

 

I think he's learning to be more patient.  Though, I think maybe he's misplacing his patience as well because he's relying on information from people who he likes, and has placed in positions they are not suited for.

 

Ultimately, it ALL lands on Dan's plate, because he's the owner of the team, and the only person that can truly effect change across the organization.

 

I think the Harvard Business Review should do an article on Dan.  It would be fascinating. 

[skins island connection]

8 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Because their is a difference between someone who really wants to bring Super Bowl glory back to Redskin Nation, and someone who is only in it for the money, and doesn't care about Super Bowl glory at all. That's a distinction that has to be made.

 

Many want to imply that Snyder only cares about money, and the "he wants to win" is just a bunch of phony blather.

 

I don't buy that. I've seen enough of him to know he wants the Redskins to be a champion.

 

Snyder may never get it when it comes to building a champion, and Redskins Nation will suffer for it. However, I do believe they are suffering his good intentions. Not a sole desire for profit and nothing else.

 

 I used to feel this way about Dan; I really did.

When he stood his ground and fought to keep the Redskins name, I told myself 'there's a man who cares about this franchise and the history behind it'.

 

But he would have to be an absolute imbecile to not see what is going on; hell, he is closer and sees more of whats going on in Redskins Park than us!

Look at whats going on with this team in general; forget Cousins and look at the rest of the entire organization.

1. We let go the top 2 WRs on the team, because they wanted a little more money. They weren't looking to break the bank.

2. Every sunday, we look at the TV or even if one is in the stands, there is a sea of opposing fans wearing their team jerseys; in some games its outright laughable.

3. The field lasts only for the first game of the season, then it looks like crap; they cover it up, and 5 minutes into the next game it looks like a Columbian soccer field.

4. This team can't keep the grounds crew from getting injured, much less any player. No offense to any females out there, but it seems that since the first woman to be hired as the lead doctor in the NFL, the injury report has shot through the roof.

5. Its gotten sadly comical to watch Bruce Allen hire ex-Redskin players and plug them into roles they are not trained for or flat out suck at it. The fact that from day 1 when this team went to a 3-4 defense, it has hovered in the bottom 7 rankings every year, even though the players they get are better suited for 4-3.

6. The strength & conditioning coaches blow dog; there's no other way to put it. But hey, the FO HAS to hire people based on nepotism or because they will work for minimum wage.

 

If you wanted to consider the Cousins ordeal, that itself would be enough of a reason to question Allen altogether. They could have had him for 19 mil/yr, but nooo, they had to see more before they do anything. Fast-forward a couple years and now Bruce Allen is over a barrel, and god only knows what lies he's telling Snyder. But if Snyder is too narrow-minded to see what we see as fans, which is plainly and sadly obvious, then he is no better than Bruce Allen.

 

Either of them could put a lot of issues away by just doing something with Cousins; **** or get off the pot. But they will come up with some other hang-up, knowing they botched this big time, and now have made it where Cousins price is borderline too much to recover from. Do you think Allen cares? Snyder may care, but he has no idea what is going on; he is out of touch with the reality called the Washington Redskins.

[SkinsGuy]

3 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

Snyder may care, but he has no idea what is going on; he is out of touch with the reality called the Washington Redskins.

 

But  I thought was the way all fans wanted it.

 

For Snyder to "stay out of the way".and let his football people he hired handle things.

 

Now folks want him to interfere because they aren't happy with the football people's decisions, and complain when Snyder doesn't do anything about it..

 

He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

 

Of course, none of your post goes to what I was talking about, and that is Snyder might be a ****-up owner who will never get it, but I do not believe he doesn't care about winning.

 

He wants to win, he just doesn't seem to know how.

 

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

3 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

But  I thought was the way all fans wanted it.

 

For Snyder to "stay out of the way".and let his football people he hired handle things.

 

Now folks want him to interfere because they aren't happy with the football people's decisions, and complain when Snyder doesn't do anything about it..

 

He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

 

Of course, none of your post goes to what I was talking about, and that is Snyder might be a ****-up owner who will never get it, but I do not believe he doesn't care about winning.

 

He wants to win, he just doesn't seem to know how.

 

 

 

I don’t want him to interfere or get involved

 

On the contrary I want him to sell the team and go live in Spain. 

[skins island connection]

12 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

But  I thought was the way all fans wanted it.

 

For Snyder to "stay out of the way".and let his football people he hired handle things.

 

Now folks want him to interfere because they aren't happy with the football people's decisions, and complain when Snyder doesn't do anything about it..

 

He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

 

Of course, none of your post goes to what I was talking about, and that is Snyder might be a ****-up owner who will never get it, but I do not believe he doesn't care about winning.

 

He wants to win, he just doesn't seem to know how.

 

 

 

 I did go on a bit of a rant about him, but in the grand scheme of things it is relevant to the topic.

 If I said that he doesn't actually 'care', then maybe I went too far on that, but he cannot be that dumb to see the main problem with this team; Bruce Allen.

I don't know if he reads anything from ES, but there are a lot of people on here much more in tune with whats going on there than myself, but there are some things that even someone out of touch with reality can see.

 

He used to meddle with operations, then caught flack about it, so he backed off, but he hired a complete moron to handle things; I just assume he fires Allen and goes back to meddling himself; at least he would hear of the dislike of his decisions first hand rather than having his buffer [ Allen ] in his ear telling him ' i'll take care of the situation, just leave it to me'.

[zoony]

15 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

Snyder to "stay out of the way".and let his football people he hired handle things.

 

Now folks want him to interfere because they aren't happy with the football people's decisions, and complain when Snyder doesn't do anything about it..

 

He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

 

Unbelievable that in 2018 there are still redskins fans who feel this way.

 

1.  Snyder has not hired football people.  He hired one football person who liked beer more than work.

2.  Snyder has consistently hired people poorly equipped to effect change, not given them the tools or resources to succeed, and established no accountability when they fail.

3.  Snyder has not invested in scouting, facilities, or anything that isnt highly visible to the fans

4.  Snyder fails at building organizational models that breed success

5.  I could go on but none of this will make a difference for you, because you are convinced snyder is a victim who `wants to win, man!!!`

[SkinsHokieFan]

57 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

Unbelievable that in 2018 there are still redskins fans who feel this way.

 

1.  Snyder has not hired football people.  He hired one football person who liked beer more than work.

2.  Snyder has consistently hired people poorly equipped to effect change, not given them the tools or resources to succeed, and established no accountability when they fail.

3.  Snyder has not invested in scouting, facilities, or anything that isnt highly visible to the fans

4.  Snyder fails at building organizational models that breed success

5.  I could go on but none of this will make a difference for you, because you are convinced snyder is a victim who `wants to win, man!!!`

 

So long as I am a taxpayer in Virginia, I will strongly oppose Snyder getting a penny of my tax dollars for a stadium as long as the organization and product are in the current state.

 

He used to make fun of Harvard MBAs and 5 year plans. Well the Browns are about to start kicking his ass because of long term planning and MBAs 

20 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

He has developed more patience.  I think the Dan Snyder of 2003 would have fired Jay after the season, injuries or no.  He might/might not have fired Bruce.  

 

I think he's learning to be more patient.  Though, I think maybe he's misplacing his patience as well because he's relying on information from people who he likes, and has placed in positions they are not suited for.

 

Ultimately, it ALL lands on Dan's plate, because he's the owner of the team, and the only person that can truly effect change across the organization.

 

 

1

 

One thing about Dan Snyder I have learned is the guy is a very slow learner.

 

It takes him 5+ years to figure out a basic concept or figure out if his right hand man has any competence. 

 

Maybe in 2030 he will realize 2 big keys to success in the NFL is a powerhouse scouting department along with investing in strength and conditioning. 

[SkinsGuy]

14 hours ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

 

I don’t want him to interfere or get involved

 

On the contrary I want him to sell the team and go live in Spain. 

 

Why does he have to get out of the country?  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

 

Unbelievable that in 2018 there are still redskins fans who feel this way.

 

1.  Snyder has not hired football people.  He hired one football person who liked beer more than work.

And then he didn't really empower that football guy to actually make the final decisions.  We have now heard stories about how SM disagreed with GrudAllen on certain players, and we kept the players GrudAllen liked.  That said, we also know that some of SM's pets have been complete busts as well. See, Jones comma Matt.  Maybe GrudAllen were correct in some cases, probably were.  However, the point is that the decision making was still really done by Allen.  And Allen trusted Gruden more than SM.  

 

Regardless, however, the football guy he hired was essentially given no real authority, more of an adviser.  

 

1 hour ago, zoony said:

2.  Snyder has consistently hired people poorly equipped to effect change, not given them the tools or resources to succeed, and established no accountability when they fail.

He hires the wrong people for the wrong roles.  Bruce might be a great team President, and can handle stadium and name issues. And maybe (MAYBE) contracts.  But he shouldn't have personnel control, and he shouldn't have a say in the coaching staff.  Because he's not that guy.  

 

1 hour ago, zoony said:

3.  Snyder has not invested in scouting, facilities, or anything that isnt highly visible to the fans

I think they have invested some at Redskins Park.  The bubble, new weight room, etc.  I'm not sure he wouldn't spend on a scouting department if his consigliere told him it was a good idea. Shanahan told him to build a bubble.  He did.  Allen is too much of a baffoon to tell him to invest in more scouting, and at this point, it would be admitting defeat. And Vinny couldn't tell his ass from his elbow, he might not have even known there were scouts

 

1 hour ago, zoony said:

4.  Snyder fails at building organizational models that breed success

I think this is #1, and the point of my previous post.  He has no idea how to structure an organization, then find the people for it.  I heard the CEO of Maximus (a Billion dollar public global government contractor) talk a few months back, and he said that the biggest mistake some executives make is that they take people and find roles for them, rather than figuring out what the organization should look like, and then putting people in those roles.  

 

That guy grew this (and other companies) consistently and is respected as one of the best executives in the area. With a track record of success.  So I'm inclined to trust his opinion.   

 

Look at the way the 'Skins filled the positions after SM left.  They huddled together, had people in the building, and crammed them into slots.  That's a clear example of the wrong way of doing things.

 

1 hour ago, zoony said:

5.  I could go on but none of this will make a difference for you, because you are convinced snyder is a victim who `wants to win, man!!!`

Snyder isn't a victim in any way.  He might be extraordinarily ignorant in how to build and run an organization, and that probably comes from the fact he never had to do it to make his money.  And then he's hired yes-men and imbeciles who have been awful advisers.  Bur he's at the root of the problem.  I don't think he's doing it on purpose. Or it's nefarious.  Or that he WANTS to have his team suck.  But he's the genesis of the problem.  

 

He needs to hire somebody who's going to tell him like it is, even if he doesn't like the answer.  That's a hard thing to do, especially if you're mega-wealthy with a huge ego.  

 

38 minutes ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

One thing about Dan Snyder I have learned is the guy is a very slow learner.

 

It takes him 5+ years to figure out a basic concept or figure out if his right hand man has any competence. 

 

Maybe in 2030 he will realize 2 big keys to success in the NFL is a powerhouse scouting department along with investing in strength and conditioning. 

I'm not sure if he's a slow learner, or if he's ridiculously loyal to people that he shouldn't be loyal to because he likes them.

 

He LIKED Vinny.  Hell, I'm sure I would like Vinny if we were playing raquetball and shooting the ****.  But he was basically incompetent, and IF he knew the right thing to do, then he didn't have the balls to tell Snyder that his plan was crap. 

 

He LIKES Bruce.  He doesn't want to fire Bruce.  He wants Bruce to figure it out.  

 

He LIKED Spurrier.  Even when Spurrier had completely lost interest, after like 2 practices and a game, Snyder liked him and wanted him to stay.

 

Clearly he liked Gibbs.  But then, who doesn't like Gibbs?  

 

You don't like to fire the people you like.  

 

Dan needs to hire people who he doesn't have a personal relationship with.  Friendly, sure.  But not personal.  Just business. And then they need to do business together.  

 

 

21 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Why does he have to get out of the country?  

You need to change your avatar.  I get distracted every time I see it.

[SkinsGuy]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

I could go on but none of this will make a difference for you, because you are convinced snyder is a victim who `wants to win, man!!!`

 

Who called Snyder "a victim"? 

 

Who's victimizing him? I just said I believe Snyder wants to bring championship glory back to Redskin Nation.

 

Whether you like it or not, there is a difference in someone who is a selfish **** that only cares about personal profit, and someone who wants to build a consistent winner, he's just bad at it, and keeps failing.

 

Nothing in your posts dispute what I wrote. Your lists adds up to Snyder has been bad at building a consistently winning team. No one argues that.

 

I just don't believe that he doesn't care about winning. Doesn't mean he isn't chasing the dollar too.  But an owner can want both.

[SkinsGuy]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You need to change your avatar.  I get distracted every time I see it.

 

Nice, isn't it?  

 

That's my "offseason" avatar.

 

The battle flag (which is what I call it) is my in-season avatar.  

[SkinsGuy]

5 hours ago, skins island connection said:

I don't know if he reads anything from ES, but there are a lot of people on here much more in tune with whats going on there than myself, but there are some things that even someone out of touch with reality can see.

 

I have a hard time believing that Snyder would read ES himself. I wouldn't be surprised if the team has people in, say, the PR department or somewhere who keep their finger on this pulse.

 

6 hours ago, skins island connection said:

He used to meddle with operations, then caught flack about it, so he backed off, but he hired a complete moron to handle things; I just assume he fires Allen and goes back to meddling himself; at least he would hear of the dislike of his decisions first hand rather than having his buffer [ Allen ] in his ear telling him ' i'll take care of the situation, just leave it to me'.

 

Well, I wouldn't call Allen a "complete" moron.  

 

He seems to know his way well around the business side of the team. The political side of dealing with issues.

 

Football matters? Well, it probably isn't his strong suit.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Doug Williams: "I've always said the draft is kind of like a crapshoot sometimes." 

 

Tell me more, Douglas.

[zoony]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Doug Williams: "I've always said the draft is kind of like a crapshoot sometimes." 

 

Tell me more, Douglas.

 

Ugh

[Warhead36]

I'd say the draft is more like Blackjack or Poker. No guarantees of course, but if you play it smart and do your research, you can win more often than not.

 

Williams will be an absolutely horrendous "GM."

[skinfan2k]

This franchise is back to 3-6 wins for the foreaseeable future 

[SkinsFTW]

"After I bought the team. I was on the wait list [for seats]. My wife framed my wait list. It’s in my office."

 

-Dan Snyder

 

There hasn't been a wait list for years now so all you guys can't say that he hasn't accomplished anything. 

 

[skins island connection]

9 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

"After I bought the team. I was on the wait list [for seats]. My wife framed my wait list. It’s in my office."

 

-Dan Snyder

 

There hasn't been a wait list for years now so all you guys can't say that he hasn't accomplished anything. 

 

 

Why, I'm not absolutely sure, but I picture Danny and his wife like the couple in Ace Ventura Pet Detective When Nature Calls, the monopoly guy and his wife. He gets drunk at a social event, and his wife just throws him over her shoulders and carries him home...

[zoony]

Junior Gallette liked this tweet.  Its is probably not a good thing to have players in the building so openly agreeing with characterizations of an incompetent front office

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, zoony said:

Junior Gallette liked this tweet.  Its is probably not a good thing to have players in the building so openly agreeing with characterizations of an incompetent front office

 

Some fans make entirely too much of "guys that want to be a Redskin".  It sounds great and all but at the end of the day, what players want most is an opportunity to be their best, win and make money.  Not all football players are stupid.  They know what's going on around them.  They talk to guys on other teams.  They deal with the FO. They hear the rumblings. They see guys practice and play.  They see the results.  

 

Thats why Junior liking this post doesn't shock me a bit.

[SkinsFTW]

Plus, JG dealt with all the BS between himself, Scot, and the contract guys on the team, during and after his injuries and Scot probably had to fight for him to be given a chance at all at coming back not once, but twice because we know Scot didn't have any control.

[MarkB452]

 

[SkinFanInMinn]

On 1/24/2018 at 8:38 PM, SkinsFTW said:

Plus, JG dealt with all the BS between himself, Scot, and the contract guys on the team, during and after his injuries and Scot probably had to fight for him to be given a chance at all at coming back not once, but twice because we know Scot didn't have any control.

I need another acronym for Gruden.  I guess maybe I'm old school, but I still think Joe Gibbs every time I see JG.  I had to read this two or three times before it clicked that you were referring to Jay Gruden not Joe Gibbs.   

How about:

JMG - Jay Michael Gruden

JayG

JLBJ - Jon's Little Brother Jay

TOG - The Other Gruden