Voice_of_Reason

Members
  • Content Count

    23,292
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    35

Everything posted by Voice_of_Reason

  1. As I've been pursuing around, it seems like just about every thread has taken some type of a turn towards the FO/GM, the fact we don't have one, and the concept of having the HC having the final say. There are some that say this is completely back-asswards. Others who like it, and still others who don't really care. So, I was hoping to create a thread where this can be discussed, and pull it out of the threads on other topics. We even got the GM comment in the "Welcome Jack Del Rio" thread. This is not the thread for debating or discussing individual candidates for GM. Also, Dan is Dan, Dan is here, and comments like "It doesn't matter as long as Dan owns the team" are completely pointless, so please don't bother with them. Here's where the Redskins are now: They chose the HC first approach. They gave Ron Rivera the power, and he is going to lead the organization and be the HC. He will presumably either promote or hire a GM who will work with him. It hasn't been made clear if the GM will work FOR him, or not. Which is an important distinction, but we can at least deduce with the "singe voice" and "HC Centric" comments from yesterday, Ron has "final roster say." There are other examples of where this has been done, and has been successful: The 49ers hired Kyle Shanahan, who seemingly helped in hiring John Lynch. The Bills hired McDermott (Go Tribe!), who selected Beane. The Raiders gave full control to Jon Gruden, who tried to get one GM, couldn't, and then hired Mayock. Obviously Bill Belichick has basically complete control of everything (and was hired, and traded for, by Kraft), and Pete Carroll and Andy Reid have the largest voices in their organizations even though they have extremely respected FO members as well. The alternate approach is obviously to hire the FO/GM executive, and let them select the head coach, most likely either in conjunction with the owner or at least with the blessing of the owner. This has worked for years, and had been the defacto way of doing business for a generation. It really wasn't until the 2000's you saw owners really go after coaches first. The most obvious examples both relate to Bill's. Bill Parcels going to the Jets to get full control, and then Robert Kraft trading picks to get Bill Belichick from Jets control. The next obvious move was Tampa trading picks to get Jon Gruden from Oakland. My personal opinion is that either way can be successful with the right people and structure. I don't think there's anything different about a FO executive who is primarily responsible for roster construction picking the coach vs the coach picking the person responsible for roster construction. Either way it goes, it can work. If you have the right setup, collaboration, and people. If you don't, then it won't. I have said for ages I believe that the HC and the GM are equally important, and they have to work together as a team. Some refute this saying one is more important than the other. I look at the winning organizations, and they all have 2 things: 1. Really good players (sign of a good GM/FO), 2. Really good coaching. You rarely see a poorly coached team win anything meaningful, and you don't see a poorly constructed team lacking talent win anything either. Technically speaking, Bruce Allen was the football executive and GM, and he hired Jay Gruden. And that didn't work out so well. Because neither was particularly good at their jobs, and they didn't work together as a team. In fairness to Jay, Bruce is the personification is "I am happy to work together as long as I get my way." But Ozzie Newsome having a huge hand in hiring Jim Harbaugh certainly did work out extremely well. Going way back, Bethard picking Gibbs worked out also. I think at this point, you can see plenty of examples for both structures. But I know that this is a hot-button topic for a lot of folks, and I'm hoping maybe we can address the HC before GM stuff here instead of everywhere else. It's actually an interesting discussion. Let's keep it civil, though. FYI: @CaliFan and @thesubmittedone, I know you all were discussing in the Bruce Allen thread. If you want me to, I can copy your posts into the OP, but I didn't want to do that without permission.
  2. Voice_of_Reason

    Press Release: #REDSKINS ANNOUNCE COACHING STAFF

    edit: alternate reaction:
  3. Voice_of_Reason

    The Coaching Staff thread: Now complete OP edited 1/15/20

    The answer is the assistant position coaches and the quality control coaches are grooming grounds and entry level positions. They might/might not provide any value to the team, however they are learning and doing a lot of the grunt work. Every career has to start somewhere. If they do well, then they get recommended as a position coach elsewhere or promoted when the position coach leaves.
  4. Voice_of_Reason

    2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

    I’m sure Adam Trautman’s girlfriend appreciates the rise greatly.
  5. Voice_of_Reason

    2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

    So here’s my question, and it’s only applicable on draft day while you’re on the clock: can you make a trade and ask who the team you’re trading with will pick? Or rather, is that done and would a team answer? Lets say we’re at 2 and you get a call, and it’s the Raiders or Miami, and you think they’re moving up for Tua, and you call Detroit right quick and make a deal to go to #3. We’ll, that all falls apart of its a great ruse and the team actually wants Chase Young and drafts him. So can you get an assurance when you make the trade you are getting your guy? clearly this only works if you are moving back one spot and only on the clock. I really think this is going to be completely fascinating. I fully expect Tua mania to be in full gear and somebody to want to go up and get him. And the Skins could get a haul, but might lose out on 2 of the best defensive players in the draft if they take the haul. In order to guarantee you’re getting Young, you have to pick him at 2. I think that’s the play.
  6. WAY too expensive for a RB. Great player. Just no RB is worth that money. Every big money RB contract has gone bust. Better to put the money in at FS, LB and TE. Get a competent back (could be Bryce Love if he’s healthy) and go from there.
  7. Voice_of_Reason

    Random "Thot" Thread (Stadium Edition)

    No, it was this:
  8. Voice_of_Reason

    !!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

    The Browns are as dysfunctional as the Redskins. Until I see them get out of their own way, I won’t believe it.
  9. Voice_of_Reason

    The Runnigback Thread..Must bring back Adrian Peterson

    This is going to be interesting to watch. It’s all about health. Guice and Love will be on the team barring off-season injuries. I have a sneaky suspicion they’re going to sign a RB who is more in the “do it all” mode, either through draft or FA. Essentially as an insurance policy for Guice/Love. Where does that leave AP? Dunno. It was ludicrous for Jay to inactivate him last year in the opener. However, the style he excels at is just somewhat different than the others. So I can see wanting similar styles so it’s easier to interchange the players. That said, AP gives you more than a lot of backs can.
  10. Voice_of_Reason

    OC - Scott Turner incoming

    You have no idea what he was talked into or out of. All you know is he talked to Scott Turner. He also knew KOC. Ron chose Scott and Dan didn’t object. He might not have even really had an opinion. You are projecting Dan had a position and had to be convinced. But you have no reporting to support that. All we know is he talked to a candidate he is probably paying north of $500k to. That seems pretty reasonable to me. All of the guys Dan was familiar with have been removed. Bruce. Schaffer. Larry Hess. KOC. The only guy who’s here who Dan knew is Kyle Smith. Otherwise it’s an entirely new cast of characters in leadership.
  11. Voice_of_Reason

    Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

    Maybe "Hard" is the wrong word. All the beat reporters have come out and in some way shape or form said Jay's practices were just lacking. Lacking attention to detail, lacking intensity, lacking a lot of things. You don't have to do the Oklahoma Drill to teach toughness. Bill Walsh famously told an assistant he was going to rip him a new one in practice just to get the team's attention. (If you haven't seen that video clip, it's pretty funny.) Then he went out and ripped the hell out of somebody, and it motivated the team. There are a million ways to do things. My point is a whole lot of folks have commented that "club Jay" was a real thing, and it wasn't just the lack of hitting, it was the lack of the intensity necessary to really get ready for a season and play games. But enough on Jay. He's gone. 2.25 years late. But gone. I watch a lot of football, I have noticed it at times, I've also noticed teams that really get after it on 3rd down plug the middle than bring pressure from the outside. A lot of ways to get it done. I personally don't like just leaving the middle open. It's a preference. Yeah, I've heard and whitnessed the same. But I think his defenses still are built on getting upfield. Also, Ron is going to have a say in the defense as well. I think he likes to be more aggressive. But time will tell. If Young is what he's advertised to be, then having an outstanding outside DE pass rusher makes everything better. Kerrigan is fine, but his best years are behind him, and he just doesn't have the physical skills to terrify an offense.
  12. Voice_of_Reason

    Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

    One thing I noticed in these cutups is that they often just leave the middle of the defense open, they line 53 up over the center, ten drop him, so the center ends up standing there with nothing to do, and they bring pressure from the outside. BUT, the shortest distance between 2 points is a straght line, and if you bring edge pressure and nothing on the interior, the QB can step up out of danger. Whatever. I'm hoping and expecting Jack and Ron to fix the schematics of the defense by the first OTA practice, and then drill the ever living hell out of it. I am looking for a huge step up on the defense. They have some talent, and now they have proven coaches. Last year I said they had some talent, but bad coaching. I'm looking forward to seeing the difference.
  13. Voice_of_Reason

    Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

    Haz was actually a pretty big name DC at that point, at least to some extent. He was a former HC who won coach of the year. I know after he got fired in New Orleans he didn't have a stellar record, but I think there was quite a bit of respect for him, at least at that time. Jay, I dunno. I think he wanted guys who wouldn't really rock the boat or challenge him. it's why he didn't get along with Callahan. And Phillips was going to do things his way, however Barry was going to do things however Jay wanted them done. It's kindof the second level of the same criticism I (and you, I think) have levied at Bruce. Bruce wanted people who he could control, not the best people for the job. Jay, he could control. Jay could control Barry. it kinda runs down hill. If Jay gets another HC gig, it will be interesting to see if he's learned anything and changed. Does he fill the staff with a bunch of DC/Tampa folks he knows. does he pay more attention to detail, does he run harder, more intense practices? Time will tell. I actually doubt he gets another HC gig unless he goes somewhere as an OC and has outstanding success for a few years. But I could be very wrong. You never know. He has a legitimately good reputation for scheming up a pass offense, he has experience, and a good name. And some executives might blame Bruce for the whole mess, and give him a pass. However, he didn't get 1 interview for any of the jobs this year that I know of, though there were only 4 openings he would qualify for, so that's not a lot of demand. McCarthy and Rivera were going to get 2 of them. So there were only 2 other openings. I find it a bit odd the Giants and Browns didn't at least kick the tires on him. Especially the Browns.
  14. Voice_of_Reason

    OC - Scott Turner incoming

    The issue is that everybody wants Dan basically to go away because they think he's the root of all of the problems, and any conversation he has, no matter what, is either sinister at worst or unproductive at best. Galdi and Kevin are on the "Go to the Bahamas, don't say a word to Ron, don't say a word to Kyle, don't say a word to anybody, don't do anything, just GET OUT." And that is just completely unrealistic. Also there is this: an informed owner is actually a better owner. But the narrative which somebody put out is that the 'Skins will start winning when the non-football people stop making football decisions." Which is fine. But that doesn't mean the owner needs to be locked in a box and excluded from everything. Because then when you NEED the owner to do something, like, for example, FIRE BRUCE ALLEN, it takes him a million years for him to to figure out he actually has a problem, and has a move he has to make. No, I prefer Dan to be educated and informed on the goings on. I like the fact that he is listening to Ron, and Ron has gotten his way on everything, but at the same time Dan is bought in. I see this as the best possible scenario. Honestly, I can see a point of view from Dan where he regrets turning over SO much power to Bruce, and essentially being uninformed, and only getting information from one source. And he has determined that while he is fine letting Ron run the show, he at least wants to know what's going on so that if they go 3-13 again, at least he has some idea that it's coming. Look-it, ExtremeSkins had a thread titled "0-5, tell me it can't happen" because the fan base looked at the schedule, the team, the coaches and players, and said, "damn, 0-5 is really likely." In fact, a lot of people said that was the most likely outcome, or 1-4 IF they could beat the Giants, which looked like the only winnable game. And NOBODY in the organization thought it was even a possibility, and they were blindsided by it. I'm willing to bet at least one of the people who was on this counsel of folks Dan talked to told him that not only is your organization a disaster, it was predictable, and you're asleep at the wheel, you big diminutive sized dummy. I mean, if it's so obvious that national folks are predicting 4-12 to 5-11, and idiot fans (like me) are asking whether it's more or less likely to go 0-5, it's freaking obvious. And I could see a point of view from Dan where he says to himself, "Self, I'm not going to be blindsided again. I need to know what's going on." This, btw, would be progress. So until I hear Dan is actually MAKING decisions and overruling Ron, or others, making first round QB picks again, or delivering vanilla ice cream to Jack (btw, I still think he was right and that was funny, even if it was a complete dick move), I'm not going to care a bit. When that happens, I'm going to care a whole lot and I'm going to roast him for it with a vengeance and furious anger. But it hasn't happened yet.
  15. Voice_of_Reason

    OC - Scott Turner incoming

    Or he didn't, but as I outlined above, there was a legitimate reason for Dan talking to Scott, and Ron got the guy who was more impressive. Ron said numerous times he was impressed with Kevin O'Connell, but apparently both he and Turner interviewed for the job, and Ron chose Turner. Additionally, Ron asked Pat Schurmer to interview, so it was clear he wanted to talk to people outside the building as well as KOC. So, my guess is after Ron had made his decision, Scott talked to Dan. Dan said "ok." I am really failing to see what the problem is here. And as I mentioned above, this is extremely savy, next level "manage your boss" stuff from Ron. If you get Dan bought in on Turner, then IF it fails, he can't come at you and say, "I told you to hire KOC. Now look what you've done. I TOLD YOU SO. So, from now on, I'm picking your assistants." By including Dan in the process, Dan's as invested as Ron, and that is a VERY GOOD THING. Now, the problem would be if Ron wanted Turner and Dan forced him to take KOC. But that DIDN'T HAPPEN. For all those that think the owner of an NFL franchise is just going to never have a conversation about anything, you're nuts. All owners are going to be involved. And I imagine most owners would like to have a chit-chat with the son of a HC who was fired in-season. It's just good business practice.
  16. Voice_of_Reason

    Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

    Exactly. To add to your point... I always like to think of how you perform in any area in "known" situations. For example, if you are an offense in a "known" passing situation, can you protect, and complete passes? (ie: 3rd and more than 4, during a comeback). Defensively, if you the offense is in a "known" passing situation, can you get pressure? Or because they know what they have to do, they just shut you down because they know what you need to do? In my estimation, since 2017, we've been bad in all "known" situation. In 2016, we were in 3rd and long a bunch, but actually managed to convert at a relatively high clip. However, the 3rd down, and especially 3rd and long defense that year was HISTORICALLY bad. (I have to find an audio clip of Tim Kurkjian saying historically bad, because the way he says it is hysterical. In other news, I love Timmy. And I miss when he used to come on Mike and Mike and they would play some guy screaming "TIIIMMMMAAAAYYY." It was gold.) However, both offensively and defensively, since 2017 we've been piss-poor in known situations on both sides of the ball. I actually LOVE the double gap blitzes ... when executed correctly. Because the thought is if you rush 2 from the same hole, the RB can pick up one of them an the second has a free run. The problem is our blitzes were predictable, ill times, and at times the OL would double-team the DT into the hole and that basically blocked all 3 guys. As with everything, variety is the spice of life. Manusky had 1 thing he could come up with, and that was about it. I think Jack and Ron are going to be more creative. Though, when I think of Ron's Carolina defenses, I don't really envision a lot of exotic blitzes. They are more tough as nails, play down hill type defenses. Sure, they blitz and bring pressure, but I don't quite see them the same way that Gregg Williams brings pressure. But I also can't say I watched a lot of Panther football over the last few years. And if memory serves, it worked ok for a bit, then teams would adjust, and it wouldn't work. It is still shocking to me hour we went from Haz to Barry to Manusky. When all is said and done the three of them might have the 3 worst DC resumes in the last 30 years. Even Jay admitted that the biggest mistake he made while coaching here was selecting Barry over Phillips. I think how different the entire situation might have been with just that one move....
  17. Voice_of_Reason

    OC - Scott Turner incoming

    Good stuff in here. Also, JP was on with Kevin and said that Scott Turner interviewed with both Ron and Dan. Kevin went a little nuts because Dan was seemingly involved in some part of the football operations, however I dismiss this (in my opinion) overreaction on the following grounds: 1. You have to include the owner, especially this owner, or else they start meddling in ways you don't want them to meddle. Include them in the process, they give their opinion and leave you alone. Exclude them, and they start trying to find ways to get involved. Marty basically told Dan to get the **** out of the building, and you see what happened. Joe included Dan, and Dan basically let Joe do whatever he wanted. One way works, one way doesn't. Ron seems to be smart enough to know which way works. 2. Dan fired Scott's father. That's a thing. It would be only natural for the guy who fired the dad to have a chat with the son to make sure that wasn't going to be a problem. Scott is now entrusted with the offense and the development of Haskins, and is essentially tied for the second most important coach on the team behind Rivera with Jack Del Rio, so making sure there aren't any ill feelings from childhood is probably a good idea. Even if the conversation is like: Dan: Hey Scott. So, when you were a senior in HS, I fired your dad with a winning record. Scott: Yeah, I remember that. Dan: How does that make you feel? Scott good answer: "I personally don't think it was the right decision, but it's a business, and I get it." Scott bad answer: "You stuck him with Jeff George, tried to influence the way the team was coached, and then fired him when he couldn't solve what you screwed up. I spent the next 10 years sticking pins in Dan Snyder shaped voodoo dolls you stupid arrogant ass." 3. All the evidence points to Dan really liking Kevin O'Connell, so Ron giving Scott an opportunity to talk to Dan and convince him that Scott is the better choice removes the "I told you so" angle from the owner if for some reason it doesn't work out. EDIT: Homework, when it comes out, you should listen to the Sheehan Pod with JP. He was on for Redskins at 8, so hour 2 of the show. The pod isn't up yet. But will be shortly. EDIT2: Check that, they're posted. There's actually one specifically with the JP interview.
  18. Voice_of_Reason

    2019 Game Day Thread - SUPERBOWL - 49ers vs. Chiefs!

    I think Rodgers has lost it. Either they or the new offense is causing him problems. But he was off even in the game against us. He used to be so perfectly accurate all the time. Now, for whatever reason, he’s not.
  19. Voice_of_Reason

    2019 Game Day Thread - SUPERBOWL - 49ers vs. Chiefs!

    I know, it’s just one I don’t care for.
  20. Voice_of_Reason

    2019 Game Day Thread - SUPERBOWL - 49ers vs. Chiefs!

    1. I really don’t care for that comment 2. None of my gay friends like women’s tennis. 3. Naomi Osaka is hot. And a fantastic athlete. And the chick she’s playing isn’t bad either. Well, isn’t bad looking. Sadly, the world #3 vs. 50-something really isn’t more competitive. But they wear short skirts and that’s something.
  21. Voice_of_Reason

    2019 Game Day Thread - SUPERBOWL - 49ers vs. Chiefs!

    I just turned the channel to Australian open women’s tennis.
  22. Voice_of_Reason

    2019 Game Day Thread - SUPERBOWL - 49ers vs. Chiefs!

    There is no real comparison between the Titans and 49ers. The 49ers will be favored, but if you have an explosive offense the way the Chiefs do, anything is possible.
  23. Voice_of_Reason

    2019 Game Day Thread - SUPERBOWL - 49ers vs. Chiefs!

    TEMPO!!!! Use tempo to keep the defense from getting in a grove.