Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[CobraCommander]

3 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

 

Actually, I think the rumor was the opposite. Doug wanted to go with Hurts and the owner wanted to go with Wentz.

 

My mistake. I got that mixed up. 

[bentskin]

26 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Someone posted this earlier but it bears repeating.  Does Stafford have final say even if the Washington offer (higher 1st than Indy) is higher?  Lions have to do what's best for them and take the better offer.  

 

Sure. But the "best" deal isnt always the lowest price. Sometimes in life you get what you pay for. So the better "deal" may be to pay a little more for something of much higher quality than to pay less for something of low quality.

In this case the better offer isnt always the lowest pick. Especially since this a choice between 21 and 19 with only a negligible difference in draft position. Now if the 49ers offer up #12 that would probably be a no brainer. But the Lions may feel that moving Stafford to the AFC is worth more than 2 slots in the draft if it were between Indianapolis (21) and Washington (19) in this scenario. Washington could always sweeten the pot by offering another pick or a player of course.

HTTR

[veteranskinsfan]

Just saw from the Athletic's Ben Standing that Alex Smith and Matthew Stafford are both represented by agent Tom Condon.

Smith is still on Skins books for two more years so based on 2021 terms per Spotrac: $18.7 million salary, $24.4 million cap hit and $10.8 million dead cap.

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Just saw from the Athletic's Ben Standing that Alex Smith and Matthew Stafford are both represented by agent Tom Condon.

Smith is still on Skins books for two more years so based on 2021 terms per Spotrac: $18.7 million salary, $24.4 million cap hit and $10.8 million dead cap.

make Smith a post June 1 release and we clear 19mil in 2021 cap space. Throws 5.4mil of dead cap into 2022 which seems a smart approach to me this offseason. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

I still want to sell the farm for Deshaun Watson. That would almost guarantee us 10 years of playoff relevance. 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Someone posted this earlier but it bears repeating.  Does Stafford have final say even if the Washington offer (higher 1st than Indy) is higher?  Lions have to do what's best for them and take the better offer.  

I asked this question, did the mutual agreement to part ways include Stafford being able to nix certain teams who showed interest. I think it's a great question because it would eliminate some QB needy teams from acquiring him. I wonder if Detroit would do him that justice for 12 years of service with them? I bet they would. If true, we'd have to wonder if he'd want any part of coming to the nations capital? Knowing that Mayhew and RR are here has to help, along with a rising defense in a weak division. Playoffs would likely be in his future. 

[Mooka]

This is a weird off-season... so many options for QBs.

 

 

In a normal offseason the league would be fighting over Teddy Bridgewater. 

 

 

Actually I hope we take a look at Bridgewater... if he's 100% healthy we could sneak in a cheapish starting QB. 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

How amazing would it be if we found our own Patrick Mahomes?

 

I mean really, the odds are so slim. But even the prospect of Matt Stafford with this defense is muted a bit by the fact that any chance of winning a title will have to go through Mahomes more often than not. Any Given Sunday, obviously. But man, how deflating haha.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[wit33]

20 minutes ago, Mooka said:

This is a weird off-season... so many options for QBs.

 

 

In a normal offseason the league would be fighting over Teddy Bridgewater. 

 

 

Actually I hope we take a look at Bridgewater... if he's 100% healthy we could sneak in a cheapish starting QB. 

 

It was born with Kirk’s situation, IMO. Said it at the time, the NFL was just a few years away from becoming much like the NBA. The QBs are becoming much more bold and we as a society are much more accepting of players leveraging their situations (especially the younger people). It’s the future, and the NFL will eat it up, because the fan loves it. It’s exciting to speculate. Like a rat waiting for unexpected piece of cheese here and there. 

 

Don’t blame the player at all, just selfishly as a fan it continues to kill off my fandom. I’m trending towards fantasy football and gambling taking as much of my pie of care as the Washington football team. 
 

Flex those muscles QBs. Much like Lebron, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, and others have done. It won’t be as often, but won’t be surprised if more great to elite QBs in the future force there way out of situations in the coming years at least once. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by wit33

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

It was born with Kirk’s situation, IMO. Said it at the time, the NFL was just a few years away from becoming much like the NBA. The QBs are becoming much bold and we as a society are much more accepting of players leveraging their situations (especially the younger people). It’s the future, and the NFL will eat it up, because the fan loves it. It’s exciting to speculate. Like a rat waiting for unexpected piece of cheese here and there. 

 

Don’t blame the player at all, just selfishly as a fan it continues to kill off my fandom. I’m trending towards fantasy football and gambling taking as much of my pie of care as the Washington football team. 
 

Flex those muscles QBs. Much like Lebron, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, and others have done. It won’t be as often, but won’t be surprised if more great to elite QBs in the future force there way out of situations in the coming years at least once. 

Good points but I really think it began with FA back in I think 1993 when Reggie Brown hit FA.  From there on it spiraled out of control.  

[CobraCommander]

10 minutes ago, wit33 said:

It was born with Kirk’s situation, IMO. Said it at the time, the NFL was just a few years away from becoming much like the NBA. The QBs are becoming much more bold and we as a society are much more accepting of players leveraging their situations (especially the younger people). It’s the future, and the NFL will eat it up, because the fan loves it. It’s exciting to speculate. Like a rat waiting for unexpected piece of cheese here and there. 

 

Don’t blame the player at all, just selfishly as a fan it continues to kill off my fandom. I’m trending towards fantasy football and gambling taking as much of my pie of care as the Washington football team. 
 

Flex those muscles QBs. Much like Lebron, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, and others have done. It won’t be as often, but won’t be surprised if more great to elite QBs in the future force there way out of situations in the coming years at least once. 

Just look at Brady with TB as an example that parralels the NBA. Not only did he call the shot he brought players to the team that only he could convince to go there.

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Good points but I really think it began with FA back in I think 1993 when Reggie Brown hit FA.  From there on it spiraled out of control.  

Reggie White ?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@wit33 I think the comparison to the NBA is fair because superstars run the league.  Without superstars, you can’t win.  Any QB in the NFL that can make all the throws, is considered in the same vein, because there are so few of them.

 

On a side note, throughout this QB come-up, popular thought has been how valuable the rookie QB contract is.  Not that I disagree that it’s valuable, but it’s rare that QBs see instant success as far as deep playoff runs and Super Bowls.  By the time you are fortunate enough to get to that point, you have to make a decision to extend the rookie QB to the current QB market.  Ultimately, it’s a catch 22.  Is it possible to strike gold and play big games with a QB on a rookie contract? Sure.  Just not likely.  At some point, you have to pay up if you want to compete.

Edited January 25, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Peregrine]

You know, the more I see whats going on with the QB situation in the league, the more I am convinced that we need to strike and grab a great QB this year and not wait.  It would be a huge missed opportunity to just roll with Allen and Heineken.   I cant remember a single year in the past 10-20 that saw so many good QBs available.  That means supply will be massive, and that means after the first couple of guys there will be deals to be had that are better than we will get a second chance on.  Im not saying what we end up with is the best QB in the NFL or even top 5, but I think we can land a top 10 QB much easier this year than in the next 5.  You have what is regarded as a good QB draft class with potentially 4 QBs gone in the first 10 picks.  You then have another 5 very good QBs available in free agency.  Thats 9, and beyond that you can take a chance on the likes of Newton, Garoppolo and Goff.   Regardless, we have the opportunity to greatly improve the QB position at a much cheaper cost than ever, and should seize that.

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

Reggie White ?

When God told him to sign with the highest paying franchise  

[KDawg]

Man there’s going to be a lot of QBs in different teams. Using that Schefter tweet these are the teams with 100% locks at QB on roster:

 

NFC East - No definite locks. Jones is probably pretty close but otherwise there is not a single team that we can say is near locked in at QB. Dak is pretty close I’d say. 

 

NFC North - None. Rodgers future is uncertain, Stafford is gone, Cousins is on shaky ground and the Bears are big time in the market.

 

NFC South - Brady is probably pretty close to a lock as long as he doesn’t retire. Saints are going to be in the market, Panthers in market, Atlanta has trade rumors for Ryan.

 

NFC West - Seahawks are a hard lock. As is Arizona. The Rams and Niners are likely in the market.

 

In the NFC we have 2 definites, 1 definite as long as he doesn’t retire and 2-4 possible returning starters. At minimum 50% of the NFC is in the QB market.

 

AFC East - Bills are locked. Miami, NYJ and NE in market is appears, though it’s fairly likely Tu’a stays in Miami but not a lock. 
 

AFC North - Cleveland is a lock. Pitt is close to a lock but not quite. Baltimore is a lock. Cincy is a lock. 
 

AFC South - Tennessee is a lock. Jacksonville, Indy, Houston could be in market if they move on from Watson. I think he stays but not a lock. 
 

AFC West - LAC is a lock, KC is a lock. Denver, LV could be in market.

 

7 locks, 3 likely locks and a couple maybes. 3-5 teams looking for a QB.

 

At least ten teams could have a new starting QB next season.

 

So who are the new QBs?

 

Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Stafford, Carr?, Rodgers?, Watson?, Heinicke?

 

Gonna be wild.

 

 

[CobraCommander]

At this point if we don't get a Stafford or Watson, then we also make it much harder to get ourselves an Allen Robinson or JuJu.

[Llevron]

I remember just a few seasons ago when the conventional wisdom was "Guys like that don't hit the open market".....specifically talking about Cousins after we let him go. Crazy to see how things have changed. I wonder if it had anything to do with him. I know its not the same kind of circumstance really, but for some of these guys its close. 

 

It probably has more to do with Brady and his success than any other one guy. But realistically it has to be more coincidence than anything, right? Fun to think about though. 

[method man]

38 minutes ago, Mooka said:

This is a weird off-season... so many options for QBs.

 

 

In a normal offseason the league would be fighting over Teddy Bridgewater. 

 

 

Actually I hope we take a look at Bridgewater... if he's 100% healthy we could sneak in a cheapish starting QB. 

 

 

No to Bridgewater. Dude was always overrated. It's telling that Rhule is moving on from here after a year

[CobraCommander]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I remember just a few seasons ago when the conventional wisdom was "Guys like that don't hit the open market".....specifically talking about Cousins after we let him go. Crazy to see how things have changed. I wonder if it had anything to do with him. I know its not the same kind of circumstance really, but for some of these guys its close. 

 

It probably has more to do with Brady and his success than any other one guy. But realistically it has to be more coincidence than anything, right? Fun to think about though. 

The thing that I think is different between a guy like Brady and Cousins is that for one it was about the money and for the other it's about winning. For Kirk i got the sense it was all about the money. For a lot of the other guys it seems to be about winning and playing on a team that values them as leaders.

[JoggingGod]

Can we please please please

stop calling for mediocre/terrible QBs being forced into the starting job? No bridgewater, no Kyle Allen, no Fitzpatrick, no Jimmy G, none of that. If they don’t get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft or Watson/Stafford/Dak/Rodgers then the offseason was a failure.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

There are some possible stop-gap options at QB that have gotten buried in the chaos of Watson/Stafford/Rodgers situations.

 

Derek Carr or Marcus Mariota (one of them likely out at LV)

Jimmy Garopollo

Cam Newton

 

I know these are going to raise varying degrees of concern with the fanbase, especially with the other names on the market. But they would be short-term solutions, cheaper options, and allow for us to continue building up the team at other spots while we wait for QB long-term.

It doesn't SEEM like that is the preferred path, but not awful backup plans.

2 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Can we please please please

stop calling for mediocre/terrible QBs being forced into the starting job? No bridgewater, no Kyle Allen, no Fitzpatrick, no Jimmy G, none of that. If they don’t get one of the top 4 QBs in the draft or Watson/Stafford/Dak/Rodgers then the offseason was a failure.

 

I am still rooting for Marcus Mariota + Trey Lance short/long term combo. That was my hope before all this QB chaos. But I have a hard time seeing Lance falling to us at #19. But Mariota as a FA acquisiton (if he gets cut by LV) would at least give you some "value upside" if he doesn't fall.

[wit33]

9 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I remember just a few seasons ago when the conventional wisdom was "Guys like that don't hit the open market".....specifically talking about Cousins after we let him go. Crazy to see how things have changed. I wonder if it had anything to do with him. I know its not the same kind of circumstance really, but for some of these guys its close. 

 

It probably has more to do with Brady and his success than any other one guy. But realistically it has to be more coincidence than anything, right? Fun to think about though. 
 

 

 
The QB market at that time was overly inflated and lacked logic. The QB bubble busted and now it’s right in the chaos zone until some new norms are established.