Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Renegade7]

I don't want a Rookie QB in 2021.  We're going to screw it up.  

 

Are we sure we even get the #1 overall pick?  So are we trading up? We tanking to do that? Is Lawrence good enough to survive our total inability to develop rookie QBs?

 

This is NOT a right situation place right now, its just not.  I can't put all my eggs into the next guy again, we've tried this twice now in the last decade with nothing to show for it.  One cost us so many picks just to move up a couple spots, another fell in our a lap and we still mess it up.

 

I'd rather doing something crazy like trade for Stafford or stick with Kyle Allen then blow another Rookie QBs future up with no talent around them what-so-ever and a franchise that doesn't even have a name right now. Dak is a free agent. How much longer is ARod going to be in Green Bay? This is not the offseason to get our guy for the future, we'll ruin him before we even fix the oline or decide if we are keep the OC.

 

I don't know what the long game is, but I need a break from QBs that are supposed to save us from ourselves.  Chase Young isn't even doing that yet.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Renegade7

[JoggingGod]

If you don't want Lawrence just go away. We're not having that discussion.

[YourWish is MyCommanders]

Gotta go for Lawrence

[Renegade7]

Just now, JoggingGod said:

If you don't want Lawrence just go away. We're not having that discussion.

 

No, give your reasons we won't ruin his development or get him destroyed behind this offensive line?  Or how there won't be another Lawrence in next draft that we can't draft?  

 

I'm exhausted from this "we gotta have this guy or shut up" way of doing things here, its not working.

[justice98]

I think it depends on who you can get and what else you do with the team around the QB.  This year, they didn't do much.

[Warhead36]

I've thought about trading for someone like Matt Stafford but honestly we have so many holes that it just doesn't make sense. The offense needs: QB, TE, 2 WRs at least, and 3-4 OL. The defense needs starters at literally every position behind the DL except for Fuller at one of the CB spots, so that's 6 starters. That's 13 new starters. Its unreasonable to address all of that in one draft and one FA class, realistically you're looking at another two years before the roster is fully fleshed out.

 

If we have the #1 pick you take Lawrence. If not, you take the best available player, but I wouldn't invest resources in an expensive vet QB. Save our money to go all in when we do hit on the QB and our window officially opens. Remember that we're eventually going to have to resign guys like McLaurin, Payne, etc. as well.

[JoggingGod]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

No, give your reasons we won't ruin his development or get him destroyed behind this offensive line?  Or how there won't be another Lawrence in next draft that we can't draft?  

 

I'm exhausted from this "we gotta have this guy or shut up" way of doing things here, its not working.

Did you even watch the OL today? They gave Allen plenty of time. And Lawrence is a generational prospect with fantastic pocket presence.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, justice98 said:

I think it depends on who you can get and what else you do with the team around the QB.  This year, they didn't do much.

 

That's my concern, put Lawrence on this team right now, how's that going to go?  We might get him killed at worst, not win anymore games at best.

 

Is it a rule that we have to have our QB of the future to win games?  How many did we have to win super bowls?  I'm just...I can't get behind tanking for another victim, we have no credibility on getting a QB that actually can solve this problem we keep finding ourselves in with the revolving door at QB. 

 

If its going to be a revolving door, let it be on folks we know what we are getting.  I say trade for someone now to hold over until we are ready for the future guy, that's what Alex was supposed to be.  Giving him that money was the bigger problem, and I don't want to get into not keeping Kirk, it will become revisionist history.

 

We need a solid stop gap guy, not another project.  We are in no position for another project, and GD if Snyder has his hand in another rookie on his way out.

2 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Did you even watch the OL today? They gave Allen plenty of time. And Lawrence is a generational prospect with fantastic pocket presence.

 

Against an 0-5 football team, they gave up 4 sacks to one guy just 7 days ago. 4 sacks...to one player.

[JoggingGod]

Holy ****ing hell I legit cannot believe there are fans actually suggesting we should pass on Lawrence, even though everyone and their grandmother says he's a franchise changing prospect at the most important position. If we pass on him we don't deserve anything good again. It's the easiest ****ing decision you can make.

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

is it a rule that we have to have our QB of the future to win games?

Yes that is literally the rule. Stop living in 1985.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

Holy ****ing hell I legit cannot believe there are fans actually suggesting we should pass on Lawrence, even though everyone and their grandmother says he's a franchise changing prospect at the most important position. If we pass on him we don't deserve anything good again. It's the easiest ****ing decision you can make.

 

If I had a dollar for everytime I saw that posted here in the last 17 years...

[JoggingGod]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

If I had a dollar for everytime I saw that posted here in the last 17 years...

When was the last time we were in position to take a generational QB? Oh that's right, never. You're in the wrong and you need to update your game to 2020.

[Warhead36]

There is no chance you pass on Lawrence. None. Zilch. Zippo. He's as sure fire as it gets.

 

The question is, what happens if you don't get the #1 pick(which is likely because the Jets are an abomination and are a lock to get the #1 pick barring something crazy).

 

Do you take another QB prospect who will be a lot riskier no matter how talented, or do you take another Chase Young like stud at another position. We have needs basically everywhere outside the DL. We could get a guy like Penei Sewell to give us another 10 years of franchise LT play. We could get Jamar Chase to pair with Terry McLaurin to create a killer WR duo. We could draft Micah Parsons to give Rivera another Keuchley to captain our defense.

 

If you don't go QB with what looks like a top 3 pick at the very least, then you almost have to go with some kind of veteran in FA. I'd assume Alex Smith gets cut(I think we can cut him after this year and actually get cap relief). I wouldn't want to expend too many resources into what would amount to be a sacrificial lamb veteran QB, so we might just roll with Allen again.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Holy ****ing hell I legit cannot believe there are fans actually suggesting we should pass on Lawrence, even though everyone and their grandmother says he's a franchise changing prospect at the most important position. If we pass on him we don't deserve anything good again. It's the easiest ****ing decision you can make.

Yes that is literally the rule. Stop living in 1985.

 

That's not what Philly did in 2017, nor Denver in 2015.  Is 2002 and 2000 too far back?

[max21]

It’s an absolute no brainer to take Fields or Lawrence if we can 

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

When was the last time we were in position to take a generational QB? Oh that's right, never. 

Weren’t we in position to do just that in 2012? 

[Renegade7]

Just now, JoggingGod said:

When was the last time we were in position to take a generational QB? Oh that's right, never. You're in the wrong and you need to update your game to 2020.

What was Griffin then?  That dude had DC in the palm of his hand in 2012, was he just another guy before we traded our lifesavings?  I remember making a poll asking if we should lose a home game to the vikings to get a better chance to get him.  Generational face of the franchise, blah blah blah.  That doesn't make Lawrence a bust, but does he really stand a chance here with the franchise in the state its in?

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's not what Philly did in 2017, nor Denver in 2015.  Is 2002 and 2000 too far back?

Philly traded up for Carson Wentz the year before. He was putting up an MVP season and was the main reason they went 13-3 in the regular season to put them in position to where Foles could win them that Super Bowl.

 

The Broncos had arguably the GOAT QB signed in FA a few years before in Peyton Manning, albeit he was washed by 2015. While they did win their D, that style of play is fairly unsustainable and their previous years three years of success was largely because of the offense and Manning at QB.

 

There are exceptions but if you look at the teams that win Super Bowls, you can go as far back as Super Bowl I and its for the most part teams with franchise QBs. And MOST franchise QBs are high draft picks.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Warhead36

[JoggingGod]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

What was Griffin then?  That dude had DC in the palm of his hand in 2012, was he just another guy before we traded our lifesavings?  I remember making a poll asking if we should lose a home game to the vikings to get a better chance to get him.  Generational face of the franchise, blah blah blah.  That doesn't make Lawrence a bust, but does he really stand a chance here with the franchise in the state its in?

Lawrence is a pro style QB with just about every trait you could ask for. Griffin played in a read option scheme and didn't go beyond his first read much at Baylor. Try again.

[Cooleyfan1993]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

That doesn't make Lawrence a bust, but does he really stand a chance here with the franchise in the state its in?

I think the state of the franchise could change from the start of FA to the draft. We don’t know 100% yet which o linemen or WR will be available in FA yet, it’s not impossible to sign a couple good ones in FA and then draft Lawrence. 

[Renegade7]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Philly traded up for Carson Wentz the year before. He was putting up an MVP season and was the main reason they went 13-3 in the regular season to put them in position to where Foles could win them that Super Bowl.

 

Eagles were 11-2 when he took over, and he still had to win all those playoff games AND beat Brady, something Wentz had nothing to do with.  Philly had a good team and veteran who got it down when it mattered, not september.

 

Just now, Warhead36 said:

The Broncos had arguably the GOAT QB, albeit he was washed by 2015. While they did win their D, that style of play is fairly unsustainable and their previous years three years of success was largely because of the offense and Manning at QB.

 

Washed up, that's my point, he wasn't the Colts Peyton, he was done.

 

Just now, Warhead36 said:

There are exceptions but if you look at the teams that win Super Bowls, you can go as far back as Super Bowl I and its for the most part teams with franchise QBs. And MOST franchise QBs are high draft picks.

 

My point isn't that we don't need a franchise QB, my point is we don't need one right now.  Are we going to try this again NOW because we have to or because its the right thing to do?  Why do we have to get the rookie face of the franchise NOW?

[KDawg]

The answer is easy:

 

It depends on where we pick in the draft.

 

If we are 1 or 2, it's a rookie. And you don't look back. Not once. You take Lawrence or Fields and you work to improve the OL and weapons and LBs and safeties in FA the best you can.

 

If we are 5-10 it's a dice roll for what's there. Trey Lance could be. Zach Wilson probably would be. Trask would be. But are they guys you want to take with your first round pick when they aren't really likely to be the BPA? If you don't sign a FA QB and you're picking in the back half of the top 10, you're risking a lot. In that case, I think you look towards a veteran if you can and if you can get a Zach Wilson type in round 2 to develop you start that process behind the vet. 

 

If somehow this team goes on some kind of strange roll and we're out of the top 10, which I don't see happening, you go vet and don't look back. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by KDawg

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

My point isn't that we don't need a franchise QB, my point is we don't need one right now.  Are we going to try this again NOW because we have to or because its the right thing to do?  Why do we have to get the rookie face of the franchise NOW?

You need one at some point though. The earlier you get one, the better. Its impossible to sustain success in the NFL without one.

Just now, KDawg said:

The answer is easy:

 

It depends on where we pick in the draft.

 

If we are 1 or 2, it's a rookie. And you don't look back. Not once. You take Lawrence or Fields and you work to improve the OL and weapons and LBs and safeties in FA the best you can.

 

If we are 5-10 it's a dice roll for what's there. Trey Lance could be. Zach Wilson probably would be. Trask would be. But are they guys you want to take with your first round pick when they aren't really likely to be the BPA? If you don't sign a FA QB and you're picking in the back half of the top 10, you're risking a lot. In that case, I think you look towards a veteran if you can and if you can get a Zach Wilson type in round 2 to develop you start that process behind the vet. 

 

If someone this team goes on some kind of strange role and we're out of the top 10, which I don't see happening, you go vet and don't look back. 

I think this is the best answer although I'm really not that sold on Fields.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

You need one at some point though. The earlier you get one, the better. Its impossible to sustain success in the NFL without one.

I think this is the best answer although I'm really not that sold on Fields.

 

Watch more of him. You should be.

[dyst]

Is the veteran Mahomes or Wilson, because I’d go for Lawrence otherwise.

[Stone Cold]

If we can’t get Lawrence, we should sign Cam.