Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[heyholetsgogrant]

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

It was written in Aug. of 2020 Jon Gruden Isn’t Hiding His Desire to Replace Derek Carr With Marcus Mariota (sportscasting.com)

 

Carr would be a good QB to trade for.  He's had solid stats throughout his career.  Will RR and the THs come a calling?

I would be open to it if we don’t have to give up a first, but with all of the musical chairs of teams needing a QB I can the price getting driven up.

[Rufus T Firefly]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

For us no.

For them. But Stafford wouldn't likely get traded within the division anyway.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

I would be open to it if we don’t have to give up a first, but with all of the musical chairs of teams needing a QB I can the price getting driven up.

It might be a 1st or two 2nd rounders.  Wild offseason for QBs about to get underway. 

[dyst]

Stafford hype is in overdrive right now. I agree he is good and QB needy teams will drive the market up but at his age, wear and tear and win rate he shouldn’t be garnering a 1st round pick IMO but more like 2nd and/or 3rd day picks instead.

[86 Snyder]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

 

That's why I think IF he hits the weight room and puts on some weight and muscle that could change.  I don't know how much he could put on though with his frame.

 

Seems negligent to count on him remaking himself when there are so many proven guys available.  Id love to see him get a real shot sometime, but it just seems so unlikely.  I'll never forget that performance though.  Id bring him back along with Allen and make the move for Stafford.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Seems negligent to count on him remaking himself when there are so many proven guys available.  Id love to see him get a real shot sometime, but it just seems so unlikely.  I'll never forget that performance though.  Id bring him back along with Allen and make the move for Stafford.

Stafford or Carr who might be as good an option if Gruden would trade him.  See the article I posted in my last post and look at Carr's stats

[86 Snyder]

23 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Stafford or Carr who might be as good an option if Gruden would trade him.  See the article I posted in my last post and look at Carr's stats

 

Carr is several notches below Stafford.  Ill take him for maybe a 2nd at most if we work our way down the list, but hes a last resort.  Stafford was a number 1 overall for a reason.  He has some tools that Carr can only watch on tape.

[CjSuAvE22]

47 minutes ago, dyst said:

Stafford hype is in overdrive right now. I agree he is good and QB needy teams will drive the market up but at his age, wear and tear and win rate he shouldn’t be garnering a 1st round pick IMO but more like 2nd and/or 3rd day picks instead.

Agreed too many on this board think hes elite he doesn't make our team exponentially better 

[evmiii]

We don’t need elite play, we need consistently good play and stability at the QB position.  We need to not be in the QB market every year.  I’ve given up on trying to determine what college QBs are going to translate well in the nfl, but they pay people a bunch of money to figure that out.  If there’s a guy they all like available when we pick take him.  I think I’m in favor of picking up somebody we have seen can play in this league without giving up our #1 and picking up a stud tackle or WR with our first round pick.  I think when it is all said and done Stanford or potentially Carr could both be available without using our #1.

[dyst]

Agreed. If we can pick up a consistent QB like a Stafford or Carr without giving up our first, that would be ideal

[RWJ]

Even JP Finley and his yahoos are talking about the draft and moving up to get a QB in the draft.

 

QBX MANIA: Deciding where Matt Stafford fits on the list of passers Washington could acquire this offseason (art19.com)

[XxSpearheadxX]

3 hours ago, dyst said:

Stafford hype is in overdrive right now. I agree he is good and QB needy teams will drive the market up but at his age, wear and tear and win rate he shouldn’t be garnering a 1st round pick IMO but more like 2nd and/or 3rd day picks instead.

If all positions on the field carried the same weight you would be right. However I believe a true above average quality QB can improve a team the way an all pro at another position does. 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, RWJ said:

I've upped my ante on what I would give for Stafford.  I'd do our #19 and our 2022 2nd round pick or my original which was our #19 and our highest 3rd this year and a 2022 conditional 4th rounder.  

 

That’s the spirit. You’ll be at two first rounders by Thursday 

[TheShredder]

4 hours ago, Guard Bum said:

 I think when it is all said and done Stanford or potentially Carr could both be available without using our #1.

The Stafford sweepstakes is a tight race and Detroit's going to pull out a 1st rounder at the least.

[Thinking Skins]

So if the price for Stafford is getting up to a first +, possibly going up to a first and a third, and the cost for Watson is multiple firsts (I'm seeing 3+), why not make more of a move for Dak? Assuming that he doesn't get a deal done, which I'd put at 50/50, and is franchised, his value is 2 firsts. Is there any story on his negotations because he should be the hottest commodity on the market right now. 

[Skinsinparadise]

But if Ron Rivera was serious when he told the media after the Wild Card loss to Tampa that he wants his quarterback to be "established" for his second year as coach in DC, then Allen, Heinicke or Smith can't be at the top of the depth chart in Week 1. They simply can't be.

Yep, the battle between franchises on the market will be fierce, and to truly compete for the top possibilities, Washington's got to be prepared to dangle their first-round pick to potential partners and maybe rising contributors like Daron Payne or Montez Sweat as well. That will cause some fans to squirm and that's why this is such a difficult juncture to be unsettled at QB.

That said, after an endless period in the NFL when the demand easily outweighed the supply, the supply has somehow caught up with the demand. Washington would be wise to act before that changes and if they can’t net a Watson or a Stafford, acquiring a different player from the outside would still be sharp. If you claim you're on the hunt, don't come home empty-handed. 

 

[LightningBuggs]

8 hours ago, dyst said:

Stafford hype is in overdrive right now. I agree he is good and QB needy teams will drive the market up but at his age, wear and tear and win rate he shouldn’t be garnering a 1st round pick IMO but more like 2nd and/or 3rd day picks instead.

 

Agree.  Due to being stuck with Stafford on my fantasy team in recent years (and yes I do mean "stuck" with him due to injuries to better qbs), I've watched a lot of him on RedZone and left most every game frustrated.  Yes, I know fantasy isn't winning and losing games, but I consistently saw a guy who was inaccurate more often than not and when it mattered most, he wasn't closing like big-time qbs do.  I realize that some have painted him as a victim of a bad organization not giving him a running game but imo he's a big reason for their playoff futility.  I'm a hard pass on him, especially at the reported trade costs.

 

If Dak becomes available in FA, by all means load up the Brinks truck.  Otherwise, find your own young QB and develop him like many good organizations do.

[KDawg]

If we HAVE to go after a big name type Dak is the dude I’d go after.

 

Still don’t love it. But he’s the guy I’d go after.

 

Stafford is next because he’d be more affordable than Watson or Rodgers if either hits the market.

 

I have my doubts that 3 of the 4 I just named get to the market. 
 

Other QBs who are established that I’d be interested in pending cost: Carr.

 

I don’t particularly want Carr or to spend the assets to get any of these dudes. But if the plan is QB no matter what, and it’s going to be a vet this is my preference.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

I honestly think we are just guys in a barber shop talking about ideal team stuff. I doubt we make these type of moves right now because there are so many other teams involved. I think back about our moves and normally they have been surprises. Remember Kendall Fuller trying to relax people on Twitter saying he wasn't traded, only to find out he was. The way I see it, there is probably an angle to this we're not seeing.

 

The names right now that are prominent are: 

 

Watson

Prescott

Stafford

Rodgers

Ryan

 

But I doubt these guys all become available and if they do, that we are up for a bidding war for them. 

 

Then there is the set of starters who may need a change of scenery

 

Darnold

Tua

Lock (he hasn't been mentioned much but if Denver is looking to replace him, its an option)

Tribusky

Minshew

Jimmy G

Goff

Carr

Wentz

 

Then there are the definitive second tier guys who could possibly come in here and compete

 

Mariota

Fitzpatrick

Bridgewater

Taylor

Stidham

Brissett

 

These are just some names. I'm guessing there are even more names that are being discussed. Not everybody will move, not everybody will be good. But hopefully a lot of these names are being discussed. I honestly think that we will be surprised with who we pick up and it will lead to months and months of more discussion, like when we were debating getting Manning in 2012 but did the RG3 trade instead. Or when we were discussing 2018 free agent QBs and draft picks and wound up with Smith out of left field. 

 

 

[KDawg]

19 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I honestly think we are just guys in a barber shop talking about ideal team stuff. I doubt we make these type of moves right now because there are so many other teams involved. I think back about our moves and normally they have been surprises. Remember Kendall Fuller trying to relax people on Twitter saying he wasn't traded, only to find out he was. The way I see it, there is probably an angle to this we're not seeing.

 

The names right now that are prominent are: 

 

Watson

Prescott

Stafford

Rodgers

Ryan

 

But I doubt these guys all become available and if they do, that we are up for a bidding war for them. 

 

Then there is the set of starters who may need a change of scenery

 

Darnold

Tua

Lock (he hasn't been mentioned much but if Denver is looking to replace him, its an option)

Tribusky

Minshew

Jimmy G

Goff

Carr

Wentz

 

Then there are the definitive second tier guys who could possibly come in here and compete

 

Mariota

Fitzpatrick

Bridgewater

Taylor

Stidham

Brissett

 

These are just some names. I'm guessing there are even more names that are being discussed. Not everybody will move, not everybody will be good. But hopefully a lot of these names are being discussed. I honestly think that we will be surprised with who we pick up and it will lead to months and months of more discussion, like when we were debating getting Manning in 2012 but did the RG3 trade instead. Or when we were discussing 2018 free agent QBs and draft picks and wound up with Smith out of left field. 

 

 

I think you did well categorizing them.

 

If we’re not looking rookie my personal ranks for us from each group with ALL THINGS CONSIDERED:

 

Group 1: 

Dak

Stafford

Rodgers

Watson

Ryan

 

Group 2:

Tua

Carr

Wentz

Trubisky

Minshew

Lock

Goff

Jimmy G

Darnold

Newton*

 

Group 3: 

Fitz

Brissett

Mariota

Bridgewater

Taylor

 

The lists are not necessarily in order of how I’d rank them as QBs.

[Est.1974]

Problem with Dak is the timing, isn’t he technically off limits until the legal tampering starts? I know that is loosely applied, but got to be careful or go via the Cowboys initially wouldn’t teams?

[kingdaddy]

10 hours ago, bonhommelemec said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/lions/.amp/onepride-plus/raiola-discusses-negative-impact-of-matt-patricia

 

It appears that New England is out of the running for Stafford.

He didn't get along with Matt Patricia!?

Mayhew and Rivera. will open up Snyder's wallet to get the deal done.  A 1st and two thirds should be enough.  Do we pull the trigger if Detroit accepts the terms?

Would love for Wentz to be traded to the Colts but that is not realistic.  

I know the contract/cap implications with a Wentz trade, but, after June 1st is where I saw you can look for Wentz to be traded. Reports from Philly are that Wentz is unhappy with several people in the organization and is taking some time to figure out if he even wants to be there. I don't think it's unrealistic for Indy to trade for Wentz, in fact, I think there's a 50/50 chance he ends up there unless he really hits it off with the new coach and is convinced the GM doesn't demand his benching again. There's a lot to fix there, including Wentz's head and mechanics. 

[Thinking Skins]

But even if you're lenienant about who the top 5 QBs in the league are (assume you say the top 5 are Dak, Stafford, Rodgers, Watson, Ryan - and all are available this offseason. The teams looking for a QB are the teams those guys play for (Dallas, Detroit, GB, Houston, Atlanta), plus Indy, Denver, Washington, NYJ, NE, Carolina, plus possibilities like Miami, Chicago, NO, SF, Oakland, LAR. 

 

That's way more teams than thost 5 QBs. Some will take QBs in the draft. Say 5 of the rookies are deemed as the future of their franchise (until they're not). That leaves about 10 jobs open. That means that just by pigeonhole principe some teams will just need to go after second tier QBs or the guys looking for a second chance. 

 

I don't think we're in for a steal by trading for say a Mariota or Bridgewater, but with our defense we may be able to have success similar to that 2015 Vikings team. 

[bonhommelemec]

25 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I honestly think we are just guys in a barber shop talking about ideal team stuff. I doubt we make these type of moves right now because there are so many other teams involved. I think back about our moves and normally they have been surprises. Remember Kendall Fuller trying to relax people on Twitter saying he wasn't traded, only to find out he was. The way I see it, there is probably an angle to this we're not seeing.

 

The names right now that are prominent are: 

 

Watson

Prescott

Stafford

Rodgers

Ryan

 

But I doubt these guys all become available and if they do, that we are up for a bidding war for them. 

 

Then there is the set of starters who may need a change of scenery

 

Darnold

Tua

Lock (he hasn't been mentioned much but if Denver is looking to replace him, its an option)

Tribusky

Minshew

Jimmy G

Goff

Carr

Wentz

 

Then there are the definitive second tier guys who could possibly come in here and compete

 

Mariota

Fitzpatrick

Bridgewater

Taylor

Stidham

Brissett

 

These are just some names. I'm guessing there are even more names that are being discussed. Not everybody will move, not everybody will be good. But hopefully a lot of these names are being discussed. I honestly think that we will be surprised with who we pick up and it will lead to months and months of more discussion, like when we were debating getting Manning in 2012 but did the RG3 trade instead. Or when we were discussing 2018 free agent QBs and draft picks and wound up with Smith out of left field. 

 

 

Nice comprehensive post. I was thinking the same thing.  I feel that someone like Brissett, Trubisky, Tyrod, Darnold, Carr, Ryan  Goff. Mariota. Carr and Bridgewater will be the selection.  I think we will try to get Stafford. Dak, Ryan, Rodgers and other higher tier qbs, but will settle with someone who is more 2nd tier.

 

I believe that Rivera is looking for someone that won't cost too much in the way of draft picks needed for compensation.  We need someone who is at least a good game manager with rising potential.  Of course, there is the draft

 

I think that Rivera will be a bit more shrewd in his selection.

I am sure it will surprise us.  Yes, swing for the fences but be exhaustive in the search.

Lastly, the draft will cause some teams to wait and see until that point.

I would love to get Stafford but would be okay with drafting Mac Jones.  The guy simply has the "it factor".  He may only run a 4.8 or 4.9 in the forty yard dash but he is elusive enough.  Maybe trade down and get him.  Trey Lance could slip down to the 19th pick.

This the first time in a longtime that I have been this excited about the WFT.