Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[CjSuAvE22]

55 minutes ago, LightningBuggs said:

 

Agree.  Due to being stuck with Stafford on my fantasy team in recent years (and yes I do mean "stuck" with him due to injuries to better qbs), I've watched a lot of him on RedZone and left most every game frustrated. 

Hes average the board makes it seem like hes all pro, only bad organizations trade first round picks for older qbs he wont make us better....think in perspective our defense is good yet we lost twice to Daniel Jones and Jalen Hurts almost beat us out of 17 games we didnt even win half yet this team is crowned as getting close and we need to splurge on a qb...dont trade for stafford be patient our qb will come hate me now love me later

[DeaconBlue]

I may not know what I'm talking about but the more I think about it I feel like standing pat with the possible addition of another good veteran back up type might be the smart way to go. As intriguing as the crop of qbs that may be available is the prospect of using up cap,draft stock and/or players traded feels like at best a zero sum game. May be only my opinion but I feel like if we use our resources to lock up good players we already have, fill holes (i.e. OL,WR,LB etc.) and strengthen the team would not only allow us the ability to get a better idea of what we ,may or may not have, already at the qb position but in the event that none of the options we currently have works out whoever we might bring in the following year would find themselves in a far better position to succeed.  Just my 2 cents. 

[bonhommelemec]

17 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I know the contract/cap implications with a Wentz trade, but, after June 1st is where I saw you can look for Wentz to be traded. Reports from Philly are that Wentz is unhappy with several people in the organization and is taking some time to figure out if he even wants to be there. I don't think it's unrealistic for Indy to trade for Wentz, in fact, I think there's a 50/50 chance he ends up there unless he really hits it off with the new coach and is convinced the GM doesn't demand his benching again. There's a lot to fix there, including Wentz's head and mechanics. 

That's why I am not sure it is a slam dunk for the Colts to get Stafford or even Watson.  Highly likely though that Stafford might be enamored with the Colts.  Wentz needs a change of scenery.  The Eagles won't trade him to us but he adds more intrigue to the situation.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

I admit I am a intrigued albeit not excited by Newman, Jones and to a lesser extent Book and Mond.  Myabe Ehinger if his intangibles are as high as some say.  I think I've seen enough to rule out Franks.  Would i bet on these guys being the answer?  No but some intriguing roll of the dice fliers for later on in the draft. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[“Misdirection”]

I think it’s obvious Ron wants to swing for the fences at QB. More likely than not, a trade. 
 

Ron brought Hurney and Mayhew in, rather than sticking with Kyle et all. He wants to be absolutely certain of his target, and the compensation ramifications. More experienced heads, with better relationships across the league, will help him decide what is likely the most important decision he’ll make in his Washington tenure.

 

he’s not running this back with Allen/Heinicke/Smith. I’m anticipating a trade to the top 3, or a Stafford/Prescott/Ryan level move.

They could swing and miss, but this seems the likely plan. 

[kingdaddy]

16 minutes ago, DeaconBlue said:

I may not know what I'm talking about but the more I think about it I feel like standing pat with the possible addition of another good veteran back up type might be the smart way to go. As intriguing as the crop of qbs that may be available is the prospect of using up cap,draft stock and/or players traded feels like at best a zero sum game. May be only my opinion but I feel like if we use our resources to lock up good players we already have, fill holes (i.e. OL,WR,LB etc.) and strengthen the team would not only allow us the ability to get a better idea of what we ,may or may not have, already at the qb position but in the event that none of the options we currently have works out whoever we might bring in the following year would find themselves in a far better position to succeed.  Just my 2 cents. 

Just to play devils advocate, the Saints didn't wait around on Drew Brees, the Bucs didn't wait around on Tom Brady, Colts on Rivers, etc....these are ones that obviously worked out. Who knows what the right answer here is, and you may have it pegged, but if Stafford, or Watson or one of the others is added here, the QB situation just took a dramatic turn for the better in most peoples opinion. Hell, if we had a QB this year we MAY have been playing in two weeks. The window for the WFT is now, if you see a sure thing out there it might be best to go for it. 

[Thinking Skins]

34 minutes ago, bonhommelemec said:

Nice comprehensive post. I was thinking the same thing.  I feel that someone like Brissett, Trubisky, Tyrod, Darnold, Carr, Ryan  Goff. Mariota. Carr and Bridgewater will be the selection.  I think we will try to get Stafford. Dak, Ryan, Rodgers and other higher tier qbs, but will settle with someone who is more 2nd tier.

 

I'm settling on this being our approach too. I think we'll try and I honestly am not going to lose any sleep over anything we do. 

 

But looking at last year and what happened I think we'll have some price points for every player and say that we won't go over it. Some are saying we are a SB team with Stafford/Ryan/Rodgers/etc but GB wasn't a SB team with Rodgers so I don't see how he makes us one. Only Tom Brady is Tom Brady. Even Joe Montana couldn't take the Chiefs to the SB, and Favre couldn't take the Jets or the Vikings. McNabb couldn't take us. Its not to say that we shouldn't go after these guys but I think we need to lower our expectations on some of these guys. People are talking about our window closing and stuff and I think that's just Ashburn talk. 

 

I know the reality of the difficulty of winning with just a defense and a medoicre to bad QB. But I wonder if Ron is really all in on a QB vs doing what he did last year at WR - making a go at the top dawg. Then if he couldn't land him, liking what we have but being unsatisfied with the amount of experience in the room. He spoke a lot about that and it was the reason he brought in Inman and Latimer to compete with our young guys on the roster. I think the QB we bring in would be of a tier above those guys but I'd think they play the potential card if they can't get a surefire stud. 

[kingdaddy]

8 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

I think it’s obvious Ron wants to swing for the fences at QB. More likely than not, a trade. 
 

Ron brought Hurney and Mayhew in, rather than sticking with Kyle et all. He wants to be absolutely certain of his target, and the compensation ramifications. More experienced heads, with better relationships across the league, will help him decide what is likely the most important decision he’ll make in his Washington tenure.

 

he’s not running this back with Allen/Heinicke/Smith. I’m anticipating a trade to the top 3, or a Stafford/Prescott/Ryan level move.

They could swing and miss, but this seems the likely plan. 

I think you're right, especially given the fact that RR swung for the fences for Amari Cooper. RR wants a ring. He saw Andy Reid get his last year and wants his own.

Edited January 26, 2021 by kingdaddy
added a word

[Anselmheifer]

15 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think there are ten players in the league I'd trade Young for straight up. He's gonna be this generation's Reggie White.

Deshaun Watson is one of those 10. I am more emotionally attached to Chase as a fan, and think he’s a HOF caliber player. If you have a chance to package him for Deshaun Watson , I would do it. Absolutely. I bet our current regime views him as untouchable  however. 
 

Also, if I’m the Jaguars, I float the idea of the first overall pick, and maybe a 2nd for Deshaun. Houston might like the idea of starting over with Trevor Lawrence tree than their other options. And if I’m Jacksonville, Watson>>>Lawrence. 

[kingdaddy]

10 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Deshaun Watson is one of those 10. I am more emotionally attached to Chase as a fan, and think he’s a HOF caliber player. If you have a chance to package him for Deshaun Watson , I would do it. Absolutely. I bet our current regime views him as untouchable  however. 
 

Also, if I’m the Jaguars, I float the idea of the first overall pick, and maybe a 2nd for Deshaun. Houston might like the idea of starting over with Trevor Lawrence tree than their other options. And if I’m Jacksonville, Watson>>>Lawrence. 

This is a great idea...Jags offer #1 overall and a 2022 2nd round pick for Deshaun Watson. A major trade of QB's between division rivals....gotta love it. 

[HigSkin]

Kiper is on Get Up this morning talking about QB's in his latest mock.  Notice he has Mac Jones going to the Pats at #15.

Edited January 26, 2021 by HigSkin

[DeaconBlue]

40 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Just to play devils advocate, the Saints didn't wait around on Drew Brees, the Bucs didn't wait around on Tom Brady, Colts on Rivers, etc....these are ones that obviously worked out. Who knows what the right answer here is, and you may have it pegged, but if Stafford, or Watson or one of the others is added here, the QB situation just took a dramatic turn for the better in most peoples opinion. Hell, if we had a QB this year we MAY have been playing in two weeks. The window for the WFT is now, if you see a sure thing out there it might be best to go for it. 

Just to respond. I had to do my research but from what I can see Brees was a straight up free agent when the the saints got him. From what I read all tom cost the the buccaneers was his contract. Unless I'm missing something.  Philip rivers I didn't get around to looking up but whatever it was led to a successful but apparently one and done experiment.  Now if we could pull off something like either the brees or brady type scenarios then I'd be all for it. All they had to do is just pay the guy.  All the top guys that look like they'd really make a difference for us seem to require all sorts of additional compensation in the form of draft picks and/or players as well. That just feels like 1 step forward 2 steps back to me. I dunno...

Edited January 26, 2021 by DeaconBlue
Words...

[Anselmheifer]

22 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

This is a great idea...Jags offer #1 overall and a 2022 2nd round pick for Deshaun Watson. A major trade of QB's between division rivals....gotta love it. 

I’m not sure if that is sarcasm! 😂

[Est.1974]

They are managing to keep a lid on the rumor mill so far this week aren’t they. Can’t imagine it can stay that way for long.

14 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Kiper is on Get Up this morning talking about QB's in his latest mock.  Notice he has Mac Jones going to the Pats at #15.

4 QBs and 3 WRs in the first 8 is fairly wild,

[JoggingGod]

Somewhat relates to QB but I think the days of “building through the draft” are over. Having a high first is very valuable but outside of that the draft isn’t exactly a science. We’re seeing contenders nowadays go for big moves simultaneously while drafting with their original picks, mostly because the league is very year to year. It’s why I wouldn’t get that worked up on the capital spent on Watson or Stafford or a trade up for a QB.

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Somewhat relates to QB but I think the days of “building through the draft” are over. Having a high first is very valuable but outside of that the draft isn’t exactly a science. We’re seeing contenders nowadays go for big moves simultaneously while drafting with their original picks, mostly because the league is very year to year. It’s why I wouldn’t get that worked up on the capital spent on Watson or Stafford or a trade up for a QB.

Yep picking #19, lets get that on the trade table, but for me it’s the risk of trading away that future high pick. Texans should be at #3 this year and they could waiting to pick the best OT prospect on the board. Instead they traded away loads of picks, for an OT. 
 

QB finding a different matter I suppose.

[HigSkin]

This is kind of how I feel about using any of our D line in a QB trade.

 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, HigSkin said:

This is kind of how I feel about using any of our D line in a QB trade.

 

 

Yup. Payne is so painfully underrated here.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Deshaun Watson is one of those 10. I am more emotionally attached to Chase as a fan, and think he’s a HOF caliber player. If you have a chance to package him for Deshaun Watson , I would do it. Absolutely. I bet our current regime views him as untouchable  however. 
 

Also, if I’m the Jaguars, I float the idea of the first overall pick, and maybe a 2nd for Deshaun. Houston might like the idea of starting over with Trevor Lawrence tree than their other options. And if I’m Jacksonville, Watson>>>Lawrence. 

So, get everyone buying in to the team first attitude and then show them that one player is more important than the team?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yup. Payne is so painfully underrated here.

 

Any hypothetical trade that involves our IDL is likely NOT to include Allen or Payne. Ionidis is very, very good. he's also on a bigger contract. Settle has one more year on a rookie deal then becomes a free agent. IMO Settle holds the most potential value in a trade BUT also has limited tape.

 

Gotta keep Allen and Payne here. You can pay the two of them big bucks while Sweat and Payne are on their rookie deals. You HAVE the money to do it, and you should. Payne's new deal would kick-in when Ionidis comes off. What you will have to do is continue to draft and develop IDL to make up for the impending losses of Settle and Ionidis after 2022, but that's not an imminent problem.

 

Allen and Payne to me = 1st round value. So if you're trading one of them you shouldn't also be parting with #19.

 

I think any trade will come down to pick #19 and Settle or Matt Ionidis. Settle probably holding more value as being younger and having another year on the rookie scale.

[“Misdirection”]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

So, get everyone buying in to the team first attitude and then show them that one player is more important than the team?

This is what folks are missing. Ron established the culture, and chase is cemented as the catalyst and team leader. 
 

As great as Deshaun is, that’s shooting your team and efforts in the foot. You have to find another package if he’s the goal.

[Rskins91]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yup. Payne is so painfully underrated here.

I'm not sure how he is. He played his ass off in the Tampa game. 2 sacks, 1 FF. Him and Allen do so much work for our defense.

 

That's why I'd be more willing to trade Ioannidis than either of those two. We already know the lineup works with Payne and Allen in the fold, with Settle as rotational depth. I love Ioannidis but it's a position of depth the Lions sorely need help with. I think a 1st, a 3rd, and Ioannidis would be a tough offer for the Lions to pass up. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Any hypothetical trade that involves our IDL is likely NOT to include Allen or Payne. Ionidis is very, very good. he's also on a bigger contract. Settle has one more year on a rookie deal then becomes a free agent. IMO Settle holds the most potential value in a trade BUT also has limited tape.

 

Gotta keep Allen and Payne here. You can pay the two of them big bucks while Sweat and Payne are on their rookie deals. You HAVE the money to do it, and you should. Payne's new deal would kick-in when Ionidis comes off. What you will have to do is continue to draft and develop IDL to make up for the impending losses of Settle and Ionidis after 2022, but that's not an imminent problem.

 

Allen and Payne to me = 1st round value. So if you're trading one of them you shouldn't also be parting with #19.

 

I think any trade will come down to pick #19 and Settle or Matt Ionidis. Settle probably holding more value as being younger and having another year on the rookie scale.

 

I keep Payne over Allen if we're choosing one, but tht's like choosing my right hand over my left. Both are integral. And yes, I believe OL and DL are places where you should invest something in the draft to every year so long as you get a quality opportunity to do so... and there is almost always a quality opportunity. 

[Anselmheifer]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yup. Payne is so painfully underrated here.

Agree 100%. He’s also 3 years younger than Allen and not as injury prone. Who would you rather keep? Payne or Allen?

 

Edit: You posted an answer while I was typing this post. 
 

I do also think that Ioannidis is underrated. Our D with Payne and Allen and Ioannidis and Sweat and Young is that much nastier. I might rather stick to picks for now. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Anselmheifer