Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Est.1974]

18 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

This should generate some QB chatter this week.

 

 

Hopefully sorting a QB trade out whilst they are there 

[Burgundy Yoda]

4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Just making sure lol.

 

Also, I agree about Indy. I think they have more stability and a better foundation but in terms of blue chip players they don’t have much. Nelson, Leonard and Buckner is it. Guys like Pittman, Taylor and Hooker have the potential but not there. A bunch of other high draft unknowns like Ya-sin, Blackmon etc

Yeah, those 3 blue-chippers would be the best players on our roster. Their blue-chip players are high end, tops at their position good. We aren't quite there, Scherff is a notch, maybe even two below Nelson, and we don't have a LBer worthy of holding the Maniacs jock. 

[kingdaddy]

Once we get Stafford I'd like to pluck his buddy Marv Jones out of free agency on a reasonable deal of course. Then we sign ARob and Stafford has the best WR corp in the NFL.

Grab Zach Ertz in free agency as a 2nd TE, on a reasonable deal of course, and we have matchup problems all over the field. Stafford's biggest problem will be how to keep everyone happy. 

Now back to my beer. 

[Stefanskins]

I wanted to roll with Hieneke, save money and build a Team that can thrive for 10 years...plug n play if you will...but, if we can get Stafford for a 1rst and a 3rd then I suppose you have to do that... 

[Ball Security]

4 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Yeah, those 3 blue-chippers would be the best players on our roster. Their blue-chip players are high end, tops at their position good. We aren't quite there, Scherff is a notch, maybe even two below Nelson, and we don't have a LBer worthy of holding the Maniacs jock. 

You’d trade Chase Young for Buckner straight up?

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, UK Skins said:

If Detroit will genuinely take #19 and a 3rd rounder you've got to do that. It's not mortgaging the future, and there isn't a decent rookie QB available at that spot. If you have to give up the 3rd to move up slightly to reach for Lance for instance then why not just take Stafford?

 

This is how I see it. I was thinking to that it would take 19 and a 3rd to move up. For who?  A guy as unproven as Cardinal Jones was when fans were promoting that idea. Instead you get a legit franchise QB who could very well have 6-8 very productive seasons.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

7 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

You’d trade Chase Young for Buckner straight up?

No? Buckner is an All-Pro though. Right now, he is the better player. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[PartyPosse]

4 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

No? Buckner is an All-Pro though. Right now, he is the better player. 

This isn't gonna end well.

[Burgundy Yoda]

8 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

This is how I see it. I was thinking to that it would take 19 and a 3rd to move up. For who?  A guy as unproven as Cardinal Jones was when fans were promoting that idea. Instead you get a legit franchise QB who could very well have 6-8 very productive seasons.  

Really, if we aren't in position for Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, or Zach Wilson, no other QB is really worth moving up for. The probability of someone like Lance, Jones, or Trask performing well in their rookie season's are incredibly low and that's what we could be potentially looking at with pick #19. Shoot, there's a really good chance Lance isn't even there. 

 

I think the smart move is to trade for Stafford and draft a high ceiling/low-floor QB to sit behind him in a couple of years. Or we could just go the Atlanta route and ride Stafford until he breaks down much like Ryan has and luck into a top 4 pick. Atlanta might go from Ryan to Fields/Wilson. Pretty lucky. Goal #1 has to be to acquire a franchise QB this off-season or we'll be looking like the Bears and 49ers with a talented roster going to waste. 

3 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

This isn't gonna end well.

Nope. I fully believe Young will get there but he ain't better than Buckner yet lol. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Est.1974]

If any slight mutual interest with the Colts became proven, we’re in trouble. You go into the territory of upping the offer to force the Lions into a corner.

 

If a 1 and 3 is being talked about, I think we have to offer more. I do think his value is being slightly under baked.

 

Wouldn’t surprise me if it takes a 1 and 2 for Stafford plus mid round change back. Maybe a 4th or 5th back from them.

[PartyPosse]

6 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

Nope. I fully believe Young will get there but he ain't better than Buckner yet lol. 

I like Buckner but he had a subpar year last year despite the All-Pro nod. Dude only had sacks in 5 out of 16 games and 7 of those 9.5 sacks were against Houston and Jacksonville. In fact all of his numbers came mostly against subpar competition. Against teams like Buffalo, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Tennessee and Green Bay  he had a whopping zero tackles for loss and a whopping 5 QB Hits. He didn't show up against real competition. I wouldn't trade Buckner and a first for Chase right now.

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

If any slight mutual interest with the Colts became proven, we’re in trouble. You go into the territory of upping the offer to force the Lions into a corner.

 

If a 1 and 3 is being talked about, I think we have to offer more. I do think his value is being slightly under baked.

 

Wouldn’t surprise me if it takes a 1 and 2 for Stafford plus mid round change back. Maybe a 4th or 5th back from them.

We need Carson Wentz to speak up and demand his way out of Philly so Indy can swoop in and save him, leaving Stafford for us. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

6 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I like Buckner but he had a subpar year last year despite the All-Pro nod. Dude only had sacks in 5 out of 16 games and 7 of those 9.5 sacks were against Houston and Jacksonville. In fact all of his numbers came mostly against subpar competition. Against teams like Buffalo, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Tennessee and Green Bay  he had a whopping zero tackles for loss and a whopping 5 QB Hits. He didn't show up against real competition. I wouldn't trade Buckner and a first for Chase right now.

I wouldn't trade Young for Buckner period but lets also not discount the fact that Young gets to play against Philadelphia, Dallas, and NY. 3 bottom teams picking in the top 10 of the draft lol. He's an All-Pro for a reason, but it does appear like he stat-padded against some weaker competition. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

If any slight mutual interest with the Colts became proven, we’re in trouble. You go into the territory of upping the offer to force the Lions into a corner.

 

If a 1 and 3 is being talked about, I think we have to offer more. I do think his value is being slightly under baked.

 

Wouldn’t surprise me if it takes a 1 and 2 for Stafford plus mid round change back. Maybe a 4th or 5th back from them.

If you’re Detroit does trading Stafford out of conference outweigh the difference of Was 1&3 and Indy’s 1&3 which is roughly equivalent to a third round comp pick?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

34 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

I wanted to roll with Hieneke, save money and build a Team that can thrive for 10 years...plug n play if you will...but, if we can get Stafford for a 1rst and a 3rd then I suppose you have to do that... 

 

I waffle back and forth between this mindset, and going for Stafford. Both are okay with me.

 

I just know this staff isn't going to go into the regular season with Allen and Heinecke battling it out for QB1. And I also can't see this front office going into the draft in a position to have to add a QB. Then again, you can only do what the market gives you, and if nobody we like can be acquired via FA or via trade then that might have to be the reality. Then again, you have to play the cards you're dealt.

 

Hard to see this front office letting the QB situation come to them though. Strike out on Stafford and Watson and there are still plenty of other options at QB other than going into the draft with Allen/Heinecke.

 

Signing Tyrod is less than ideal, but if it's on the cheap and it gives you insurance against overpaying for a QB in the draft, then so be it. I'd rather this team go that route than overpay and panic. Keep building the team up, re-visit QB in 2022. Rivera has bought himself some time to build things right.

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I wouldn't trade Young for Buckner period but lets also not discount the fact that Young gets to play against Philadelphia, Dallas, and NY. 3 bottom teams picking in the top 10 parts of the draft lol. He's an All-Pro for a reason, but it does appear like he stat-padded against some weaker competition. 

I think it's also important to note that Chase was only in year one whereas Buckner is in his, I believe 5th year? Indy gave up the 13th pick for him to elevate that defense and he failed to do so. Obviously it wasn't all on him, but it was clear he was the beneficiary of playing across from Bosa in SF. Buckner is closer to Sweat than he is to Chase, not that there's anything wrong with that. 

[RWJ]

42 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Hopefully sorting a QB trade out whilst they are there 

Yep, doing their do diligence in finding their QB of the future if they can't trade for one they like.  

[PartyPosse]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I waffle back and forth between this mindset, and going for Stafford. Both are okay with me.

I struggle with two aspects: The first is it's very dependent on what the team would have to give up. If it's just a first then I can tolerate that. But then it comes down to not knowing who is going to be there at 19 when that pick comes around. If by some reason Pitts or Jamar etc falls then i'd rather have the younger blue chipper and I would hate to see that player dominate for the next 10-12 years.

[HigSkin]

22 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

If any slight mutual interest with the Colts became proven, we’re in trouble. You go into the territory of upping the offer to force the Lions into a corner.

 

If a 1 and 3 is being talked about, I think we have to offer more. I do think his value is being slightly under baked.

 

Wouldn’t surprise me if it takes a 1 and 2 for Stafford plus mid round change back. Maybe a 4th or 5th back from them.

 

I don't know about that mutual interest advantage or Stafford eyeing Colts stuff.  In SIP's post a page back and others mentioned in this thread it's been said the Lions are going to take the best offer, not Stafford picking his team.  I think we've known all along it was going to take the best draft pick offer vs any team.  I'm going with best offer assumption and if that doesn't work it means it got to rich and some team wanted him more than we were willing to offer.  🙂

[Est.1974]

15 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

If you’re Detroit does trading Stafford out of conference outweigh the difference of Was 1&3 and Indy’s 1&3 which is roughly equivalent to a third round comp pick?

I’m not sure they will necessarily want to ship him out of the conference. Or at least, it will not a mandatory factor in the trade.

 

If I were Stafford, I may just be thinking that getting a SB appearance out of moving to an AFC looks teams looks a tough gig right now, and for the foreseeable. Looks ‘less’ tough to me in the NFC, but that it a subjective reason I guess.

[HigSkin]

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

How bout cap space? How do we compare to the Colts in cap space? 

Colts offensive line is one of the best isn't it? That, coupled with their backs, friendly city, good place for Stafford to land.

Considering what they already have on their roster, you could make the case that they have the best cap situation in the league. They also have an offensive minded coach that QBs want to play for. Maybe Scott Turner becomes that, but he sure isn't comparable to Frank Reich right now in terms of who guys like Stafford would want to play for.

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Stefanskins said:

I wanted to roll with Hieneke, save money and build a Team that can thrive for 10 years...plug n play if you will...but, if we can get Stafford for a 1rst and a 3rd then I suppose you have to do that... 

The better strategery would be to trade Jonathan Allen and a 3rd for Stafford.  Allen will be a free agent after next season, and he's already making 10.5 million in 2021.  He'll be due to get an enormous contract in 2022 - when we already have 2 outstanding backup DT's that will have no reason to stay if we lock up Allen and then Payne the next year.  We want to keep both Ion and Settle for the long run, and Payne is the key to our run defense - not to mention he had 2 sacks against TB.  That leaves Allen as the odd man out.  As good as Allen is, he's easily replacable.  And as good a leader he is, this is Chase Young's team.      

Edited January 26, 2021 by Ruzious

[method man]

Just now, Ruzious said:

The better strategery would to trade Jonathan Allen and a 3rd for Stafford.  Allen will be a free agent after next season, and he's already making 10.5 million in 2021.  He'll be due to get an enormous contract in 2022 - when we already have 2 outstanding backup DT's that will have no reason to stay if we lock up Allen and then Payne the next year.  We want to keep both Ion and Settle for the long run, and Payne is the key to our run defense - not to mention he had 2 sacks against TB.  That leaves Allen as the odd man out.  As good as Allen is, he's easily replacable.  And as good a leader he is, this is Chase Young's team.      

 

Not only that but Ion is also the best interior pass rusher on this team by far

[kingdaddy]

11 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

Whoa....reading the tea leaves here?