FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I didn’t see every snap today, but from what I did see, he actually looked the part and appeared night and day more accurate.  Tough for me to say not having seen everything, but it would seem this game should buy him some time with those who have written him off already. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[XxSpearheadxX]

16 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

No, because if we win and that gives Bruce ammo to stay, then all you got in your hand is a pile of bird ****.

Thats notnwhat Sean Taylor would say and you ****ing know it. Let the young kids ball out, enjoy your fantasy. 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Stat-wise, Haskins seems to be "Alex-Smithing" his way to wins

 

 

15 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Thats not what Sean Taylor would say and you ****ing know it. Let the young kids ball out, enjoy your fantasy. 

 

 

Not to mention, draft slotting is so over-rated.

Arizona was #1 overall - 14 slots ahead of us - and they practically have an identical record as us this year.

Similar examples are endless.

Higher draft slotting does not automatically translate to a better team or more wins.

Most of the time, draftees do not perform exactly the way they were slotted, relative to the other slotted draftees.

[Taylor 36]

26 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Thats notnwhat Sean Taylor would say and you ****ing know it. Let the young kids ball out, enjoy your fantasy. 

 

Who gives a flying **** what Sean Taylor would say?  If Bruce Allen remains here, we will remain a **** team.  If you enjoy that, then enjoy your fantasy.

25 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Stat-wise, Haskins seems to be "Alex-Smithing" his way to wins

 

 

 

Not to mention, draft slotting is so over-rated.

Arizona was #1 overall - 14 slots ahead of us - and they practically have an identical record as us this year.

Similar examples are endless.

Higher draft slotting does not automatically translate to a better team or more wins.

Most of the time, draftees do not perform exactly the way they were slotted, relative to the other slotted draftees.

I said nothing about "drafting slot," because, again, the drafting slot means **** if Bruce and Dan are making the picks.  Get rid of Bruce, and we have a sliver of a hope that maybe the new GM would stand his ground on personnel selection with Snyder.  Otherwise, we will have the same **** we have had for decades.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

I believe it was the throw to McLaurin, he shoulda had that one. Yes you did hear that, it was Trent Green who had spoken with him. They were talking about his footwork, and having his feet in position allows him to make better throws..Feet and Eyes in sync.

Thanks.  I like that Haskins recognizes the need to improve that aspect - I mentioned this previously after hearing he worked on his mechanics with his HS coach over the bye.  Obviously knowing the problem isn’t enough, but it’s a positive IMO.  

38 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

No, because if we win and that gives Bruce ammo to stay, then all you got in your hand is a pile of bird ****.

Yeah, this is my biggest concern.  I’d love to be able to land Young, but most importantly, Allen needs to go.  

22 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I didn’t see every snap today, but from what I did see, he actually looked the part and appeared night and day more accurate.  Tough for me to say not having seen everything, but it would seem this game should buy him some time with those who have written him off already. 

 

So, I’ve mostly defended Haskins, and I’ll continue to do so when I think it’s warranted.  With that said, IMO - yes, he was more accurate today, but many of his misses last week were fingertip passes.  He had a couple/few that were just totally uncatchable, but most were close enough to give me hope.  Thing is, he did look better on this front this week (fewer egregious overthrows), but even many that were caught were behind the receiver or barely in their catch radius (similar to previous outings).  I’m just hopeful that experience and hard work can lead to further improvement... but I think a lot of that will come over the offseason.  It’s unfortunate he’ll likely be learning a new offense at the same time.  At least the young guys will be sticking around so there should be some level of comfort.  

16 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Stat-wise, Haskins seems to be "Alex-Smithing" his way to wins

 

 

 

Not to mention, draft slotting is so over-rated.

Arizona was #1 overall - 14 slots ahead of us - and they practically have an identical record as us this year.

Similar examples are endless.

Higher draft slotting does not automatically translate to a better team or more wins.

Most of the time, draftees do not perform exactly the way they were slotted, relative to the other slotted draftees.

Again, I’d love to draft Young (or have a chance to trade back), but yeah, draft slot isn’t so big a deal to me in general.  I like the team we’re building on the backs of these younger guys*, I just hope we’re able to find a bonafide stud or 3.  Arguably we did that with McLaurin, but we could absolutely use more.  Chances are better with a higher draft pick or more picks, but I’m not gonna sweat that ATM.  These wins are showing the young guys 1) they belong, and 2) hard work pays off, so I believe it’s good for them and I’m happy for them.  
Bottom line though, I hope to hell Allen is shown the door and we get a legit GM with a vision/plan in place.  That to me is the one reason these wins are sort of bittersweet.   To each their own though.  

*obviously, one could argue that this goes against the notion of getting rid of Allen, but that dude has embarrassed/crippled this team in so many different ways... ugh.  

[CowboyKillerz]

Draft slotting: see NE Patriots... Then see Clevland Browns. These two teams should be reversed after the last decade... 

 

 

I'll be happy with the progress from all the youngsters and the DUBS!! Worry about the draft in April!!

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Stat-wise, Haskins seems to be "Alex-Smithing" his way to wins

 

I agree but I disagree. 

 

If you look at the final numbers (of Haskins) then yeah its Alex Smith, but if you look at

1. Who he's getting involved and

2. Who he's trying to get involved

 

you see a different QB. Remember with Smith when our WRs wouldn't have a pass for  a few weeks. It was partially on having Doctson/Richardson and Crowder compared to McLaruin/Harmon/Sims, but Haskins is both throwing more balls to the WRs and more of his stats are coming from the WRs. 

 

So philosophically it may be a similar thing - limit turnovers, but I think there's a different philosophy with Haskins - getting the ball into the hands of the playmakers. And to add to that, he's been doing a good to pretty good job at throwing the ball where either his guy catches it or nobody catches it. There was one almost pick today but listening to Keim today, he said that it was perfect placement. And we've already gone over last week's stuff. But I think it helps that he has Doug Williams and Alex Smith as mentors because that can be a nice balance between two styles. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

3 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

Who gives a flying **** what Sean Taylor would say?  If Bruce Allen remains here, we will remain a **** team.  If you enjoy that, then enjoy your fantasy.

 

If Haskins, Guice, Harmon, Flowers, Terry, and Sims ( and scherff this game, his down year I hope is a boon in the resigning process ) create an offensive threat and build on it and win games from it I will consider that a win. Bruce can suck an egg but I want to see the young guys win. You think the young guys winning would change bruce getting canned? 

[Burgold]

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I agree but I disagree. 

 

If you look at the final numbers (of Haskins) then yeah its Alex Smith, but if you look at

1. Who he's getting involved and

2. Who he's trying to get involved

 

you see a different QB. Remember with Smith when our WRs wouldn't have a pass for  a few weeks. It was partially on having Doctson/Richardson and Crowder compared to McLaruin/Harmon/Sims, but Haskins is both throwing more balls to the WRs and more of his stats are coming from the WRs. 

 

So philosophically it may be a similar thing - limit turnovers, but I think there's a different philosophy with Haskins - getting the ball into the hands of the playmakers. And to add to that, he's been doing a good to pretty good job at throwing the ball where either his guy catches it or nobody catches it. There was one almost pick today but listening to Keim today, he said that it was perfect placement. And we've already gone over last week's stuff. But I think it helps that he has Doug Williams and Alex Smith as mentors because that can be a nice balance between two styles. 

Not to mention if Sprinkle could catch... The numbers still wouldn't have been mind blowing, but they would have been quite good.

[DJHJR86]

This game did nothing to change my opinion either way on him.  I still think Buffalo was his best game.  

[Llevron]

48 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

This game did nothing to change my opinion either way on him.  I still think Buffalo was his best game.  

 

I dunno I felt like he was around for the ride most of Buffalo. In this one he seemed to make timely plays to keep drives moving pretty often which is a big ask considering how not great he had been in those situations earlier. I think that probably is just him being more familiar with the plays and who is supposed to be open though. That or the play calling is just better. Its honestly hard for me to tell which.  

[KDawg]

The gameplan with Haskins is the same as it was with Smith. Smith is, obviously, much more polished and reliable. As he should be. Haskins is younger, has some pretty poor accuracy, and has mechanical issues out the wazoo. 

 

But he is playing within the gameplan. And for that he should be commended.

 

His performance yesterday did very little for me to believe he's the quarterback moving forward. But it didn't make me any more against that possibility... And for a guy who has struggled, that's a good first step. It needs to be followed up with solid passing performances... But until then, he took a positive stride and should be commended for doing so.

[DJHJR86]

This was the typical Alex Smith game from 2018 where the fans would say how much of a "winner" he is.  The fact that Haskins had a Smith-like game yesterday (in his 4th start) should be further evidence that this team needs to end this illusion that Smith should return when healthy.  

[dballer]

34 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The gameplan with Haskins is the same as it was with Smith. Smith is, obviously, much more polished and reliable. As he should be. Haskins is younger, has some pretty poor accuracy, and has mechanical issues out the wazoo. 

 

But he is playing within the gameplan. And for that he should be commended.

 

His performance yesterday did very little for me to believe he's the quarterback moving forward. But it didn't make me any more against that possibility... And for a guy who has struggled, that's a good first step. It needs to be followed up with solid passing performances... But until then, he took a positive stride and should be commended for doing so.

 

He also made some throws Alex Smith wouldn't even think about attempting.

 

I thought overall he actually looked pretty good. He made a couple of real frustrating plays, where he tried to pull it and run when he still had time. I don't remember any bad misses on his throws yesterday. I have a feeling he's going to have a couple of real nice games down the stretch.

 

By the way, Kyler looked BAD yesterday. So did Daniel Jones. 

 

 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

He also made some throws Alex Smith wouldn't even think about attempting

 

In both good and bad ways. Yes. He has a live arm with no accuracy. 

 

Smith has a meh arm with good accuracy. They are very different quarterbacks that are trying to execute the same gameplan. For now it works. It won't forever.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

So how did Haskins do? He did fine.

The rookie completed 13 of 25 passes and only threw for 147 yards. He threw no touchdown passes, but he didn't have any interceptions either. 

In some ways, Haskins looked like Smith from 2018. In a Week 5 win over Carolina last season, Smith threw for just 163 yards, his lowest total of the year. 

The air attack wasn't always pretty, but the run game was so effective, it didn't need to be. Protecting the ball was more important, and Haskins largely did that. Just like Smith used to do. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I get both sides of the Haskins-Alex argument.  In many ways there are totally different personalities and have totally different QB attributes and weaknesses.  

 

But I get the point in this game.  The defense and run game were the X factors, and Haskins didn't spoil the fun.  That was somewhat the Alex Smith recipe where he rarely was the reason they won but also wasn't the reason why they lost.

 

As for me as to Haskins, that game didn't change where my leanings are as to him being the goods but my mind is far from made up.  He had a couple of drives that I really liked.  Otherwise he was up and down.  I still haven't made up my mind.  I'd love to see one really good game from him as opposed to a good drive or two.  That would make me feel a lot better.  But his career is young so I am open to that game coming.  Will see.   I'll rewatch the same this week with the all 22 film and maybe I'll have a stronger opinion after that.

 

 

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

Haskins to me looked more like Jimmy G when he was first starting out than Smith, and that was in Jimmy's third year.  It takes time for a young QB to put the game on his back.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Haskins to me looked more like Jimmy G when he was first starting out than Smith, and that was in Jimmy's third year.  It takes time for a young QB to put the game on his back.

 

 I am ok with Haskins' performance.   Some good signs in the mix.   It's not that unusual for a rookie QB to have a I'll put you on my back type of game.  3 rookie QBs have had games like that this year, some multiple.   We had two rookies who did it in 2012.  Not blaming Haskins for not having a game like that yet -- my point is it could be coming in the next 4 games.

 

  

[Veryoldschool]

I think it is a mistake to compare Haskins to anyone except his earlier performances.  Yesterday was Haskins' best game to date.  I was encouraged by his performance. 

[NoCalMike]

32 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Haskins to me looked more like Jimmy G when he was first starting out than Smith, and that was in Jimmy's third year.  It takes time for a young QB to put the game on his back.

 

That's the comparison I think makes the most sense.  Defense + Running Game + Young inexperienced QB not doing anything to hurt the team & making a few impressive throws along the way. 

[MartinC]

I don't think there is any question that there has been progress from Haskins first start to yesterday. Not massive huge strides, but incremental gains. That's good. Right?

 

Yesterday I thought he was much more accurate than in the Lions game, he's getting in and out of the huddle well and we only had one dead ball foul on offense yesterday (illegal formation when a WR lined up incorrectly). He also made some really good plays on 3rd down and outside the structure of the play, used his feet well in the pocket and made good decisions with the ball. His ability to make plays when the original play breaks down was one of the concerns I heard about him after he was drafted - I think he's been much better in that regard than advertised.

 

None of this should start anyone ordering a gold jacket for him just yet - but its progress.

 

One concern I have for him (apart from accuracy) is his play in the red zone. The game speeds up down there and the windows get smaller. He's not shown yet he can convert on the throws that are not wide open in that area (and he's missed a couple that WERE wide open!)

 

Still aways to go, but better.

[SkinFanInMinn]

So, let's take this a little further down the road.  I think most people are encouraged by the progress he's making, but he's starting from such a deficit, it seems like it's going to take a long time to get where we want him to be (if he ever does).  Let's assume he's given/earns the starting role next year, which I think is likely.  What does he need to show to be the answer long-term?  A few things come immediately to mind: accuracy, red zone, mechanics.  I'm somewhat afraid we're going to get into next year and continue to see continued improvement albeit not as much as we'd like and the arguments will start once again whether he's a 'legit' NFL starter.  Thoughts?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Looked solid yesterday.  Encouraged by some of the throws, also no turnovers.  

 

Here's hoping he can build against the Packers, that's not a great defense but they're better against the pass.  I'm assuming we see more Guice and Peterson next week and Haskins has around 25 attempts again.  If Haskins can turn in a similar performance next weekend I'll be happy.  

[Bunny Kelly]

34 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I don't think there is any question that there has been progress from Haskins first start to yesterday. Not massive huge strides, but incremental gains. That's good. Right?

 

Yesterday I thought he was much more accurate than in the Lions game, he's getting in and out of the huddle well and we only had one dead ball foul on offense yesterday (illegal formation when a WR lined up incorrectly). He also made some really good plays on 3rd down and outside the structure of the play, used his feet well in the pocket and made good decisions with the ball. His ability to make plays when the original play breaks down was one of the concerns I heard about him after he was drafted - I think he's been much better in that regard than advertised.

 

None of this should start anyone ordering a gold jacket for him just yet - but its progress.

 

One concern I have for him (apart from accuracy) is his play in the red zone. The game speeds up down there and the windows get smaller. He's not shown yet he can convert on the throws that are not wide open in that area (and he's missed a couple that WERE wide open!)

 

Still aways to go, but better.

 

 

I think he is gunshy in the redzone, his early season picks are making him conscious of turning it over so when the spacing is tighter he isn't willing to risk it