FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[skinny21]

I’ve said all along that I believed any meaningful ’fixing’ of Haskins’ mechanics would probably have to wait for the offseason.  Obviously the issues aren’t fixed, but it sure seems like legitimate progress has been made on that front.  I’m happy to be wrong on that one.  Good on him and the coaches to emphasize those issues (specifically syncing his upper body and feet).  

[mistertim]

IMO it seems like DH's connection between his lower and upper body has improved relatively well in a pretty short period of time. Certainly still work to do on it...particularly with consistency in that aspect of his mechanics. But that's only going to come with reps and practice. One thing I've noticed as well is that his footwork looks much quicker and smoother than in college and earlier in the season. He looks lighter on his feet. That was something that bugged me a bit...that he seemed to have slow feet. But it looks like he's worked on that as well. I think he'll continue to improve. No way to know if he'll ever be a top QB in the league, but I seriously doubt he'll be a bust. 

[Thinking Skins]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/11/5/20941743/nfl-young-quarterback-evaluation-gardner-minshew-baker-mayfield-mitchell-trubisky

 

Nice article. Doesn't mention Haskins (I don't think) but talks about things to use to grade a QB. 

[Master Blaster]

On 12/2/2019 at 12:51 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am back and forth on Haskins but got no doubt that he would benefit from a decent TE.  Sprinkle to me is just a guy.  I'd add he'd also benefit from a really good slot WR.  Ironically someone like Crowder.  At Ohio State, he threw a lot of balls in between the numbers -- dig routes, crossing routes, etc.   I think if he had Jordan Reed and Crowder his numbers would be different. 

 

I like Sims in the slot.

As for TE, I think Hunter Henry should be a target after releasing Reed and not re-signing Davis.

[Master Blaster]

By all accounts Gruden essentially told Haskins to **** Off this fall as Gruden didn't want to go with a rookie QB and Haskins got that impression immediately (hence a lack of trying when you know you have no chance).

It seems now that Haskins has some support he is working his tail off and it shows.  I say this knowing full well his next game could be horrendous, but there are many things to his game you can't teach, and the things you can, he seems to be improving upon. 

The next HC or OC is going to be vital for where this team goes.

[Warhead36]

10 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

By all accounts Gruden essentially told Haskins to **** Off this fall as Gruden didn't want to go with a rookie QB and Haskins got that impression immediately (hence a lack of trying when you know you have no chance).

It seems now that Haskins has some support he is working his tail off and it shows.  I say this knowing full well his next game could be horrendous, but there are many things to his game you can't teach, and the things you can, he seems to be improving upon. 

The next HC or OC is going to be vital for where this team goes.

Even though he sucked near the end I wouldn't be opposed now to bringing in Mike McCarthy. He did wonders with Aaron Rodgers early in his career(people forget Rodgers had a TON of mechanical flaws when he first entered the league).

 

We'd need to pair him with a top notch GM though and accept the fact that in 3 years or so we'll need a new HC to take the next step over the top.

[Skinsinparadise]

I think every game coming up for Haskins is obviously big for his growth.  My only position on him right now globally is I can't see how anyone could be hardcore positive or negative so I am going medium or at least trying to.  I am not thinking all positive or all negative.  

 

As to my impression pre-draft to now.  I am more impressed with Haskins mobility and pocket presence than I thought I'd be.  I am less impressed with the intangibles than I thought I'd be -- more stuff mentioned today on that front by someone but I won't post it because its easy to see how polarizing that stuff becomes.  

 

GB will be a stiff test.  The other games shouldn't be that tough as for the defenses he faces.  I'd love to have one 250 yard 3 td type game in part for his own confidence.  The face off against the Giants (the team he loved growing up) versus Daniel Jones I think might bring out his best.  Will see. 

[skinfan2k]

so far what i have seen is  that he seems capable enough to be a nfl starter.  I don't see anything in yet to say he is a franchise QB you build around.  He seems like a system QB. 

[Sean 3621]

This kids ability to learn from his mistakes is far and away his best attribute.

I mean it’s actually visible to me how he just keeps trimming the fat from his game. Maybe that’s cause his game has a lot of fat but still you can almost see him learning play by play. 

 May I also say my other favorite part of his game is how tall he stands in the pocket he is showing really good pocket shuffle. Once we get him a Oline that he trusts that ability to slide around to the open parts of the pocket you either have or you don’t and it looks ( to me anyway) he has it.

 Dude reminds me of Big Ben so much especially the younger Ben. 

[ThePackisback]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Even though he sucked near the end I wouldn't be opposed now to bringing in Mike McCarthy. He did wonders with Aaron Rodgers early in his career(people forget Rodgers had a TON of mechanical flaws when he first entered the league).

 

We'd need to pair him with a top notch GM though and accept the fact that in 3 years or so we'll need a new HC to take the next step over the top.

Please don't do that to yourselves.

[sportjunkie07]

On 12/1/2019 at 9:06 PM, SoCalSkins said:

I have probably been harder than anyone on him, but I agree with you. If the running game keeps it up and the D plays anywhere close to where they did after the first 2 drives, there is a glimmer of hope there. The raw numbers are not there and statistically he probably doesn’t pan out, but there were times where he deserved some praise. He hasn’t been checking down to avoid looking bad. That was the Jason Campbell special.
 

If he had better accuracy he actually would have made some not horrible numbers the last 2 games. .500 ball after 4 starts and 2 wins in a row deserves some props. I will be so happy to say I was completely wrong about him. I still don’t think I was wrong because it’s so difficult for any QB prospect to pan out but he did some nice things.

 

 

I have been right there with you as far as being tough on the guy.. 

 

i dont think he played terribly vs the panthers and i do see some things I like. His poise and overall pocket presence is actually surprisingly good. His decision making is fine for a guy with 4 games played. He’s managing to be inaccurate while not throwing interceptions.

 

But ya know when, as a redskins fan, ya look back and see the red flags that you maybe ignored...

 

here are some red flags:

-looks completely disinterested while not playing 

-comes into games looking like he has no clue what is going on

-shows up an hour before game time

-takes selfie on last play of first win

-has an “I’m already there” attitude

-the lack of passing statistics

 

the fact is that Haskins is missing routine nfl caliber throws and is not currently a threat.

 

The competition cannot be understated. we are playing really bad teams. our defense is giving us extra possessions and giving us great field position continually. On offense, the likes of guice mclaurin sims and Harmon have been the difference makers, not Haskins. 

 

I do want the guy to succeed but I am nowhere near convinced.

 

 

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As to my impression pre-draft to now.  I am more impressed with Haskins mobility and pocket presence than I thought I'd be.

 

1 hour ago, Sean 3621 said:

 May I also say my other favorite part of his game is how tall he stands in the pocket he is showing really good pocket shuffle. Once we get him a Oline that he trusts that ability to slide around to the open parts of the pocket you either have or you don’t and it looks ( to me anyway) he has it.

 Dude reminds me of Big Ben so much especially the younger Ben. 

 

Agree with you both here. His ability to slide and be mobile in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield has been a pleasant surprise for me (especially for a brand new rookie). You didn't see much of it in college because he rarely got pressured so didn't really have to do it much due to having a very good OL as well as the fact that a ton of his plays at OSU were short developing crossers and drag routes. That along with how unathletic he came across at the combine, I had him pegged as a bit of a potential statue, which I saw as problematic. 

 

I don't think he necessarily has Big Ben's propensity for avoiding sacks via apparent black magic (though Ben being almost as big as his offensive linemen certainly helps), but I do agree that he seems to have some of the same ability to feel pressure and move to avoid it. That being said, DH's pressure awareness is a bit maddening because at times the guy looks like one of those really good QBs who naturally feels pressure and can move around to avoid it and buy time, but then at others he seems to completely miss pressure and takes a bad sack. I'm fairly certain that's just inexperience but it's always frustrating to have a guy who does something great and then follows it up by doing the exact same thing poorly. But he does seem to have a natural feel for it when he's not overthinking so I'm hopeful that as his experience grows his brain farts where he completely whiffs on seeing pressure will go down.

 

[Bunny Kelly]

Big Ben, Russell Wilson & Tom Brady all averaged under 195 yards per game in their first year as starter. Obviously Haskins is way below that but only 4 starts, my point is that even elite QBs don't always come blasting into the league, you often learn to walk before you can run

[Llevron]

 

7 hours ago, sportjunkie07 said:

But ya know when, as a redskins fan, ya look back and see the red flags that you maybe ignored...

 

Btw, none of this stuff has been ignored. Least of all by Socal lol. But the media has literally only been talking about this stuff for 5 weeks straight. And most of your red flags arent what you are actually saying they are. You may need to revisit the actual facts here. I mean, most of your list is wrong. 

 

And then you say stuff like Harmon was a difference maker, not Haskins. Harmon threw himself the ball? Really? Stop it. 

 

 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

I don't think he necessarily has Big Ben's propensity for avoiding sacks via apparent black magic

 

I think we all know Ben was sacrificing virgins lol 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

 

Agree with you both here. His ability to slide and be mobile in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield has been a pleasant surprise for me (especially for a brand new rookie). You didn't see much of it in college because he rarely got pressured so didn't really have to do it much due to having a very good OL as well as the fact that a ton of his plays at OSU were short developing crossers and drag routes. That along with how unathletic he came across at the combine, I had him pegged as a bit of a potential statue, which I saw as problematic. 

 

 

 

Sheehan said he heard him in an interview said he lost weight and body fat from his last college year. If so that might have helped.  He seemed a bit slow at times at Ohio State.  I am not blown away by the dude on the aggregate.  I got doubts.  Still neutral.  But the mobility has been a pleasant surprise.

[Warhead36]

11 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

so far what i have seen is  that he seems capable enough to be a nfl starter.  I don't see anything in yet to say he is a franchise QB you build around.  He seems like a system QB. 

Yeah I think the same. I don't think he'll ever be a top 5 guy, probably caps out in that 10-12 range. Like a Matthew Stafford type(strong arm but accuracy/turnover issues).

[Skinsinparadise]

Shanny was asked by Sheehan today about Haskins.  Shanny watched all of his games.  His take was not impressed with his consistency in the first 3 games but thought he played well against Carolina.  He likes his mobility.  He wants to see him hang in the pocket more and shuffle his feet away from pressure, reset his feet and throw.   He can see the live arm and talent.   He has the arm to throw it when guys are open.  He wants to see him throw more with anticipation when guys aren't open at the time.

 

Shanny tried to pin him down on an answer about whether he's got the goods or not.  Shanny said he couldn't tell.  But he would be able to tell if he was in the building with him.  He said that he can tell typically within 2-3 weeks if a QB has a chance because he thinks the intangibles are key which to him are primarily about study habits, practice habits and work ethic.  I'll back Shanny on that point in one sense because Arians in his book about QBs echoed some of those same things.  

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Shanny tried to pin him down on an answer about whether he's got the goods or not.  Shanny said he couldn't tell.  But he would be able to tell if he was in the building with him.  He said that he can tell typically within 2-3 weeks if a QB has a chance because he thinks the intangibles are key which to him are primarily about study habits, practice habits and work ethic.  I'll back Shanny on that point in one sense because Arians in his book about QBs echoed some of those same things.  

 

And this is why I worry about the kid. Not so much because I dont think he has those habits. I think he does or could if you just listen to him talk. But I worry he is not getting the help he could be from the Redskins to develop or I guess nurture good habits. I dont think any of our players get that from this Org. 

 

This is also why I dont care if we draft another guy or not, I expect them all to fail here for the same reason until thats fixed. 

[skinny21]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

And this is why I worry about the kid. Not so much because I dont think he has those habits. I think he does or could if you just listen to him talk. But I worry he is not getting the help he could be from the Redskins to develop or I guess nurture good habits. I dont think any of our players get that from this Org. 

 

This is also why I dont care if we draft another guy or not, I expect them all to fail here for the same reason until thats fixed. 

I’ve been thinking about this aspect of Haskins.  On one hand, we’ve heard or seen the negatives - preparation, immaturity, involvement, etc. - on the other hand, how much support has he been given?  How much of the preparation/work ethic angle was a result of him feeling unwanted?  How much of it was because of a lack of experience or understanding of how to be a pro?   None of that absolves him - plenty of guys come into the league and work their butts off and go the extra mile from day 1 - but hearing how some of these things have changed mitigates my concerns to some extent.  
 

I do believe he has the tools to succeed as a franchise type of qb.  Pocket awareness and movement have been outstanding at times.  He has a relatively quick release, can rocket the ball around the field and has the confidence to do so.  I think his touch on short to intermediate throws have been pretty good (better than advertised on the passes to the flats).  Mentally, he’s making good reads (better than I would have expected at this stage), he hasn’t looked totally flustered or lost, seems to have embraced the need to be a leader and the work he has to put in.  He also seems to understand what he needs to improve on (in particular, the mechanics needed to improve his accuracy).  
 

Experience should lead to throwing with anticipation more often.  Better mechanics/accuracy should lead to hitting receivers in stride more often.  Don’t know if he will improve his deep ball touch, though I was a bit encouraged by one he threw to McLaurin last Sunday.  
 

All in all, I’m encouraged by his play.  Enough that I’m thinking there is a legitimate chance he can develop into a good qb.  As you are saying above, it’s up to the organization to give him the support he needs to continue his growth.  
 

[RandyHolt]

I am bit troubled by his 56% completion rate.  It is so.... 1970's.  The 33rd ranked QB this year is at 60%.   It is the least of our worries but would like to see that number rise before the end of the year.

[Warhead36]

Lets not go crazy on Shanahan's impression. This is the same guy that swore his reputation on John freaking Beck.

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Lets not go crazy on Shanahan's impression. This is the same guy that swore his reputation on John freaking Beck.

 

Thank you.  Where was Shanny’s focus on “intangibles” with John Beck?

[Llevron]

24 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Thank you.  Where was Shanny’s focus on “intangibles” with John Beck?

 

wasnt beck part of a cult? 

[Xameil]

Shanny's fascination with Beck was definitely an argument against legalized pot...

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Lets not go crazy on Shanahan's impression. This is the same guy that swore his reputation on John freaking Beck.

 

I don't think Shanny said anything crazy though in the mix of his assessment.  But if we want to dub him a QB dummy then I'll back it with Bruce Arians said more or less the same thing as for attributes he looks for a Qb and likewise said he can see it when he has said QB in the house.