Skinsinparadise Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, Burgold said: I think Haskins has a chance to turn his story around. Here's the most benign interpretation I can come up with. He was drafted on potential and a stellar year in college, but everyone knew he was raw... super raw. Unfortunately, he was drafted into a situation with a coach who was not only on the hot seat, but probably was ready to be fired. Gruden gave the kid less support and work than any #1 draft pick in NFL history. He didn't want him, didn't believe in him, and, as much as he could, refused to work with him. Haskins, partly because of this, looked really bad in spot duty. He looked better at the end of the year when he was playing consistently and getting practice snaps. It probably didn't hurt that they play called to his strengths whereas Gruden tried to play call to Haskin's weaknesses. I recall how much you don't care about Jay. 😀 But this part to me doesn't fly. I watched a good chunk of that training camp. O'Connell was all over Haskins. Haskins ball placement in practice was atrocious. But still he was all over him. Jay Gruden was the head coach, not the QB coach. It wasn't his job to groom any player. He's running the full team. That's partly why you have assistants. And even if Gruden wasd this ogre with Haskins and it was his job specifically to groom him. i wouldn't blame him not to do it. He was in a win year now season and the owner just drafted a QB he and his buddy Kyle Smith argued against. 12 minutes ago, Burgold said: So, season two rolls around and there's a new coaching staff and the staff says, "We don't know you, work hard, and we'll see." The kid does work hard. COVID strikes though and he gets no hands on training camp. So basically, his first two years, he has no preseason coaching. Still, he does enough to earn the starting nod, but in the games, he's mostly awful. Like the team, he rallies a bit in the second half, but he's terrible and he gets benched for performance after probably his best game. I think in fit of anger he asks for a trade, but his value is so low that the team can not comply. Then Allen makes the team look better and Smith even better than that. In training camp, QBs from what I observed get plenty of attention. I am sure Zampese and Turner gave Haskins plenty of time. The narrative that leaked was that Haskins wasn't putting in the work and was repeating mistakes. It was the same narrative from the previous season. For me to turn positive on Haskins it won't be about other people letting him down. IMO the players who play the victim and scapegoat others end up losers. He IMO needs to take responsibility for his own part in his demise and puts in the time and then maybe he turns the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 You may be right, but I think you are wrong about Haskin's time with Gruden. When he was forced into play, they didn't even have a rudimentary playbook built for him. During preseason games, he was the third QB allowed onto the field and never got any first or even second team snaps... even in preseason. So, maybe O'Connell got on his back a little during rookie camp or training camp, but compared to the attention and craft first round QBs technically receive? He got shorted. Now, I do agree with you that the lion share of responsibility falls on Haskins' shoulders right now. It's up to him to change his destiny. I also agree that there are things within him that he needs to change. I'm not sure if he can if the changes run deeper than mechanics... and they surely do. As for Gruden, when I'm feeling kindly, he was our Bruce Budreau. A guy who elevated the team from awful to okay, but found that okay was his ceiling. I don't dislike him, but I did feel that he was kept too long and that he both quit on his team and his team quit on him. Lastly... and maybe this is partly because of Allen... has any offensive coach had such a string of lousy DCs? Haslett, his hand-picked choice Barry, and then Manusky? Sure, part of that was talent, but a lot of that was scheme and misuse of talent and since the DCs uniformlly called the same game... they were probably getting guidance from the HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 On the UK coverage last night, they referred back to an earlier week where Rob Ryan had been a guest (quite often is on UK coverage)....the story being from Ryan that Haskins simply wasn’t wanted by the coaching staff last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 good sign hopefully... Ron Rivera said quarterback Dwayne Haskins has “really grown in the last month in terms of the things we talked about wanting to see him understand. The young man is a talent and he’s learning the rest of it. I like what he’s doing on the field.” Rivera said Haskins and Steven Montez have done a good job mimicking Alex Smith's reps during practices. "They're learning and that's a huge plus," Rivera said. John Keim, ESPN Staff Writer3h ago 4 hours ago, Burgold said: You may be right, but I think you are wrong about Haskin's time with Gruden. When he was forced into play, they didn't even have a rudimentary playbook built for him. During preseason games, he was the third QB allowed onto the field and never got any first or even second team snaps... even in preseason. So, maybe O'Connell got on his back a little during rookie camp or training camp, but compared to the attention and craft first round QBs technically receive? He got shorted. It's not Jay's job to baby an individual player. That's for the O coordinator and the Qb coach. From the practices I watched Haskins looked mostly atrocious in camp. When you factor that. You factor that he, other coaches and the FO didn't think Haskins worked hard according to beat guys. And Dan ignored Jay's take and Kyle Smith's take on Haskins and took him anyway in the draft. And Jay was in a win else season. That's a lot in the soup. The dysfunction centering Haskins in season one IMO is zero on Jay. 95% on Dan. And 5% on Haskins assuming the stories of him not working hard were true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 I wouldn't mind seeing Haskins get another shot. Unfortunately the way Alex is playing it probably won't happen this year unless it's late in the season and we're eliminated from playoff contention. And I just can't see us going in to next year with him in our plans. But who knows, if we don't draft a qb and don't bring back Allen, it's possible he gets a shot next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max21 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 When Rivera says those things I can’t help but think they will retain him for next year and what his future is here? Or he’s just saying nice things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 29 minutes ago, max21 said: When Rivera says those things I can’t help but think they will retain him for next year and what his future is here? Or he’s just saying nice things He's just saying nice things while also keeping the door open. If they draft a QB in the first, Dwayne is gone. But I don't think they feel they *have* to draft a guy that high. So there's a chance they roll with the same crew next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Let’s go Brandon Allen: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bigblueview.com/platform/amp/2020/11/28/21591236/the-abcs-of-giants-bengals-from-brandon-allen-to-zac-taylor-nfl-week-12-schedule Lets get to 826 pages on the back of Brandon Allen in hopes he leads the Bengals to an upset victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 7 hours ago, wit33 said: Lets get to 826 pages on the back of Brandon Allen in hopes he leads the Bengals to an upset victory. I kinda want the Giants to win the division... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 It's a beautiful thing seeing Tom Brady look sooo bad in Tampa these days, I wonder if they'd be interested in Dwayne this offseason? Brady has Gronk, Evans, Godwin and Antonio Brown and they still can't score....bad move bringing in AB to ruin the chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Standig article as for trade value if traded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 ^^ Didn't Cousins go from 2nd string, to starter, to 3rd string in 2014, and back to starter in 2015? lol...yeah, that was under Bruce and Gruden but this is 2020, and in terms of weird unexpected things 2020 kicks everyone's ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Unfortunately Arizona was kind of able to play it off like they liked Rosen but loved Murray so it was easy to make it seem like he was still an asset. We benched Haskins and then soon after a smear campaign ensued, of course his value is tanked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EatsMoreChicken Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I think they plan to keep him for another year, ride with Alex as the intended #1 and let Dwayne have a full offseason and training camp behind Alex. He’s still a kid, learning for the first time how to study and prepare like a pro. Which I understand— I didn’t know how to study when I got to college because I’d never had to study before, so I had to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 On 11/27/2020 at 1:20 PM, Skinsinparadise said: good sign hopefully... Ron Rivera said quarterback Dwayne Haskins has “really grown in the last month in terms of the things we talked about wanting to see him understand. The young man is a talent and he’s learning the rest of it. I like what he’s doing on the field.” Rivera said Haskins and Steven Montez have done a good job mimicking Alex Smith's reps during practices. "They're learning and that's a huge plus," Rivera said. John Keim, ESPN Staff Writer3h ago It's not Jay's job to baby an individual player. That's for the O coordinator and the Qb coach. From the practices I watched Haskins looked mostly atrocious in camp. When you factor that. You factor that he, other coaches and the FO didn't think Haskins worked hard according to beat guys. And Dan ignored Jay's take and Kyle Smith's take on Haskins and took him anyway in the draft. And Jay was in a win else season. That's a lot in the soup. The dysfunction centering Haskins in season one IMO is zero on Jay. 95% on Dan. And 5% on Haskins assuming the stories of him not working hard were true. Rivera is trying to do what he can to rebuild Haskins's trade value, which is too little, too late. Haskins is gone and hopefully he can fetch a couple Day 3 picks - maybe a pick swap and another pick in 2021 or 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said: Unfortunately Arizona was kind of able to play it off like they liked Rosen but loved Murray so it was easy to make it seem like he was still an asset. We benched Haskins and then soon after a smear campaign ensued, of course his value is tanked. Smear Campaign? C'mon man. Smear campaigns are run against opponents to try and discredit them. No one in their right minds tries to discredit their own asset. It doesn't make sense. What they might be trying to do instead is have a publicly stated "come to Jesus" when the private ones have fallen on deaf ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Why waste a pick on him? Everyone knows, if the Team really doesn't want him; they will have to cut him. Instead of trading a pick, you can wait until the Skins cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Rdskns2000 said: Why waste a pick on him? Everyone knows, if the Team really doesn't want him; they will have to cut him. Instead of trading a pick, you can wait until the Skins cut him. Noit if you really want him. You can make sure he comes to you. If not, you enter a bidding war with someone. May cost you more in the end or you may lose him. Safest way is to trade for him. But it will not be a big market. I would expect at best a few 6th rd picks and at the least a 7th rd pick depending how many are interested. Could be conditional picks. Say a 6 unless he plays X amount it becomes a 4th and if he becomes a starter it turns into a 3rd or 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I would try to trade Haskins in the off season to Cincinati or to any other team who would take him for a draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said: Unfortunately Arizona was kind of able to play it off like they liked Rosen but loved Murray so it was easy to make it seem like he was still an asset. We benched Haskins and then soon after a smear campaign ensued, of course his value is tanked. I would have agreed had they traded Rosen before drafting Kyler but didn’t the trade happen after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 It would be really weird for me to see all this drama earlier this season and then they retain him. Even more so if he plays again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, method man said: Rivera is trying to do what he can to rebuild Haskins's trade value, which is too little, too late. Haskins is gone and hopefully he can fetch a couple Day 3 picks - maybe a pick swap and another pick in 2021 or 2022 If that's the case he probably should have avoided doing and saying things that helped tank his trade value, then. My personal belief is that he is not trying to prop up his trade value now, nor did he give a rat's ass about his possible trade value back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, PartyPosse said: I would have agreed had they traded Rosen before drafting Kyler but didn’t the trade happen after? I'm actually not sure. What I'm saying is since Arizona was in position to get someone widely viewed as a better prospect, it kind of gave the perception that it wasn't Rosen's play that caused Arizona to draft Murray, which I think helped his draft stock not plummet. If Arizona had picked 15th instead of 1st and drafted Haskins (a less sure prospect), more people would have been wondering what the hell was wrong with Rosen lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I think if Haskins tows the line for Rivera, there is no incentive to get rid of him anytime soon in the offseason. He has a fully guaranteed contract, if we get cut him the cap hit increases from 4mil to 8.5mil. What is the point of eating that extra cap hit straight away. Keep him through camp, see what happens, heck we may still have extended practice squad rules in 2021, at this stage there is no incentive to move him on. ....all that with the caveat that he is not having a detrimental effect on the roster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: I think if Haskins tows the line for Rivera, there is no incentive to get rid of him anytime soon in the offseason. He has a fully guaranteed contract, if we get cut him the cap hit increases from 4mil to 8.5mil. What is the point of eating that extra cap hit straight away. Keep him through camp, see what happens, heck we may still have extended practice squad rules in 2021, at this stage there is no incentive to move him on. ....all that with the caveat that he is not having a detrimental effect on the roster... You're right, there is no point in cutting him now. Let him compete in camp next year. Let him grown in this system. Hell maybe he can figure it out. It's clear he wasn't ready in years 1 or 2 and that not all on him, a lot of that blame goes on the FO and Coaching changes that were required because of failure at the very top of this org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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