FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

Just caught up with a Keim segment on the radio.  In short, he thinks the situation with Haskins is fluid.  He thinks he had a long way to go to win them over.   

 

More or less his point is they want to see the work ethic extend further, where its not just a few weeks where he's fired up.   My takeaway from that is they've seen Haskins before fired up and into it but then it fizzles so they aren't taken with short spurts of enthusiasm from him.   They also want to see what he learns in the classroom translate to the actual field in the heat of battle.  The good teammate role he's being right now is a good look for him.   

 

 

He said he thinks they will look hard at QBs in this draft. 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

I can see Haskins getting another chance even if it's only because at the moment he has virtually no trade value, and the only way to improve that is for him to demonstrate that he's worth a shot. Right now he's probably more valuable to us than anyone else.

 

I don't know if he can fix his mechanics, but he can fix his work habits, assuming of course that those are a real issue. Continuity should definitely help him if he stays put; it's not as if he had a lot of game experience to draw upon before he came here, and his development was neglected last year and curtailed this year, compounding any issues he has with putting the time in himself.

 

Well I'm debating Hasking vs the 4th best QB in the draft next year. I think if we get a chance at Lawrence, Fields or Wilson we take that chance and offer duces to Haskins. But somebody else its like 6 in one hand half dozen in the other. And the way its looking is that if we win the division we're going to have a 20+ pick in the first. So do we draft a Jones or a lower round pick or just stick with Haskins?

 

And I don't think its out of reason to think that Haskins sees some time this year. I doubt Montez has actually replaced him as the backup so if anything happens to Smith (and look at injuries so far Burrow, Jones, Tua, etc all have been injured recently. Its not out of the realm of possibility that Smith goes down before the year is over. If Haskins can look good in this end of year run it could help him going into next year. 

[OVCChairman]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just caught up with a Keim segment on the radio.  In short, he thinks the situation with Haskins is fluid.  He thinks he had a long way to go to win them over.   

 

More or less his point is they want to see the work ethic extend further, where its not just a few weeks where he's fired up.   My takeaway from that is they've seen Haskins before fired up and into it but then it fizzles so they aren't taken with short spurts of enthusiasm from him.   They also want to see what he learns in the classroom translate to the actual field in the heat of battle.  The good teammate role he's being right now is a good look for him.   

 

 

He said he thinks they will look hard at QBs in this draft. 

 

 

 

 

You can't help but feel like the 'QB in the first round' is a fan and media conjured stance, and that the team likely is not looking at it that way.  They're looking at BPA and that's it.... outside of K / P.  if BPA is QB, they'll take him.  I imagine they know that the QB question is not answered, but I don't think they're going to pass on a guy they're in love with for a QB just because. 

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

You can't help but feel like the 'QB in the first round' is a fan and media conjured stance, and that the team likely is not looking at it that way.  They're looking at BPA and that's it.... outside of K / P.  if BPA is QB, they'll take him.  I imagine they know that the QB question is not answered, but I don't think they're going to pass on a guy they're in love with for a QB just because. 

 

Keim didn't say first round. 

 

I know from other posts you are hardcore about not reaching for a QB.  I don't think anyone here disagrees.    Your point seems to be fixated on BPA.    I don't think people here or the FO would be in favor of reaching for a QB.  So I don't think anyone is arguing the other way unless I missed post?

 

But I do think they are likely targeting a QB.  If so...

 

A.  Targeting a QB doesn't mean whatever best QB lands at their first round pick we will take that player whether we love them or not

B. It would mean if they love one up or down the draft they might be willing to trade up (for a prospect they love) or trade down or see if they drop to their 2nd round pick or later (for a prospect they like that they think they can get later)

C. If none of that transpires then they just ride with what they got.

 

i read a long story about the behind the scenes machinations behind the Chiefs drafting Mahomes.  The cliff notes of that story was the Chiefs were targeting a QB and specifically that dude and had a plan to trade up to go get him. 

 

Doug was often cool to listen to because he was so brutally honest when he worked in that FO and he would reveal that they somewhat targeted specific positions in the early rounds.  He more or less flat out said they were taking a DT and RB early in the 2018 draft.  And that's exactly what they did.  He would talk about BPA but I didn't get a sense that they were purists on that front.  Sometimes you can marry targeting a postion and need if certain positions seemed stacked in certain rounds.

 

In this draft specifically its really interesting for QB.  Feels a lot like 2012.   I'll comment more on this on the draft pick thread since it fits there better.

 

[OVCChairman]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Keim didn't say first round. 

 

I know from other posts you are hardcore about not reaching for a QB.  I don't think anyone here disagrees.    Your point seems to be fixated on BPA.    I don't think people here or the FO would be in favor of reaching for a QB.  So I don't think anyone is arguing the other way unless I missed post?

 

But I do think they are likely targeting a QB.  If so...

 

A.  Targeting a QB doesn't mean whatever best QB lands at their first round pick we will take that player whether we love them or not

B. It would mean if they love one up or down the draft they might be willing to trade up (for a prospect they love) or trade down or see if they drop to their 2nd round pick or later (for a prospect they like that they think they can get later)

C. If none of that transpires then they just ride with what they got.

 

i read a long story about the behind the scenes machinations behind the Chiefs drafting Mahomes.  The cliff notes of that story was the Chiefs were targeting a QB and specifically that dude and had a plan to trade up to go get him. 

 

Doug was often cool to listen to because he was so brutally honest when he worked in that FO and he would reveal that they somewhat targeted specific positions in the early rounds.  He more or less flat out said they were taking a DT and RB early in the 2018 draft.  And that's exactly what they did.  He would talk about BPA but I didn't get a sense that they were purists on that front.  Sometimes you can marry targeting a postion and need if certain positions seemed stacked in certain rounds.

 

In this draft specifically its really interesting for QB.  Feels a lot like 2012.   I'll comment more on this on the draft pick thread since it fits there better.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I guess I'm just running with BPA.  A lot of my posting about BPA and not reaching for a QB... and continuing to repeat it, is because I keep hearing / seeing fans say things like "we have to do X" and I don't agree with that.  Rivera's comments have been cryptic and vague at times, insinuating that we don't have a franchise QB on the roster, but then giving the notion that the team would be perfectly OK without any major moves at the position.  I guess I'm just feeling like the team is not acting desperately, which is a good thing.... and I hope fans don't get desperate when it comes to the QB position, or getting frustrated with Rivera and Co. if they ultimately pass on a QB early.  

 

I'm not disrespecting the importance of the position... but more emphasizing the importance of a 1st round pick... and how debilitating that can be if you swing and miss on a QB, or any other position for that matter. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

 

Yeah I guess I'm just running with BPA.  A lot of my posting about BPA and not reaching for a QB... and continuing to repeat it, is because I keep hearing / seeing fans say things like "we have to do X" and I don't agree with that.  Rivera's comments have been cryptic and vague at times, insinuating that we don't have a franchise QB on the roster, but then giving the notion that the team would be perfectly OK without any major moves at the position.  I guess I'm just feeling like the team is not acting desperately, which is a good thing.... and I hope fans don't get desperate when it comes to the QB position, or getting frustrated with Rivera and Co. if they ultimately pass on a QB early.  

 

I'm not disrespecting the importance of the position... but more emphasizing the importance of a 1st round pick... and how debilitating that can be if you swing and miss on a QB, or any other position for that matter. 

 

I am working on a post on the draft position thread.  In short, what I am going to say there is this draft might be the most fascinating QB draft I could think of in a long time.    I agree that aren't stuck with taking a QB in the first.  But I do think if you want to target one, you can likely figure something out.

 

Keim is usually super plugged in.  So if he thinks right now they will target a QB in the draft.  I presume at least at this given time someone tipped him off to that.  Maybe its the scouts in that building giving extra time to studying that spot or whatever.

 

Over the years, I have probably had the weirdest ride as for debates as to the topic of Alex Smith. I am not among the group who are down on him.  And that group can be vocal. And that's certainly not me.  And i've debated them with me taking the pro Alex stance including recently.   I am in the hardcore group of the ceiling with Alex is decent/good and you aren't finding greatness with him.  So I've debated some who think Alex is better than that or I underrate him.  I don't think I underrate Alex.  He's a great story.  But I just don't buy he's a QB who takes you deep in the playoffs.   My thought is similar to what i've heard from Chief fans which is Alex is a great guy, he's a leader,  and while you will win with him you are unlikely to be a threat to approach or win the big dance.   

 

 There was a time when I'd be plenty happy with being just good.  But I think now it would be a sqaundered opportunity.  Unlike the past, we have some real special young talent across the board.  if you team that up with a great QB especially under a cheap contract, I think we can hit a SB soon.  But if we get pedesrian to good QB play (my point applies to Kyle Allen, too, he's much more of a mystery though) I think we are a 9-7, 10-6 kind of team with a first round exit from the playoffs.

 

I think ironically we are in a similar place ( a little behind though) to where the Chiefs were before taking Mahomes.  From what i read the Chiefs knew they had to take the QB position up a notch and also get cheaper at that spot if they want to keep their younger talent and the goal is to win a SB.  It worked.  It wouldn't shock me if Rivera and Kyle Smith are likewise thinking a similar thing.  And its possible that they see this draft which is arguanly more stacked than normal at QB as an opportune time to make that move.  

 

[OVCChairman]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am working on a post on the draft position thread.  In short, what I am going to say there is this draft might be the most fascinating QB draft I could think of in a long time.    I agree that aren't stuck with taking a QB in the first.  But I do think if you want to target one, you can likely figure something out.

 

Keim is usually super plugged in.  So if he thinks right now they will target a QB in the draft.  I presume at least at this given time someone tipped him off to that.  Maybe its the scouts in that building giving extra time to studying that spot or whatever.

 

Over the years, I have probably had the weirdest ride as for debates as to the topic of Alex Smith. I am not among the group who are down on him.  And that group can be vocal. And that's certainly not me.  And i've debated them with me taking the pro Alex stance including recently.   I am in the hardcore group of the ceiling with Alex is decent/good and you aren't finding greatness with him.  So I've debated some who think Alex is better than that or I underrate him.  I don't think I underrate Alex.  He's a great story.  But I just don't buy he's a QB who takes you deep in the playoffs.   My thought is similar to what i've heard from Chief fans which is Alex is a great guy, he's a leader,  and while you will win with him you are unlikely to be a threat to approach or win the big dance.   

 

 There was a time when I'd be plenty happy with being just good.  But I think now it would be a sqaundered opportunity.  Unlike the past, we have some real special young talent across the board.  if you team that up with a great QB especially under a cheap contract, I think we can hit a SB soon.  But if we get pedesrian to good QB play (my point applies to Kyle Allen, too, he's much more of a mystery though) I think we are a 9-7, 10-6 kind of team with a first round exit from the playoffs.

 

I think ironically we are in a similar place ( a little behind though) to where the Chiefs were before taking Mahomes.  From what i read the Chiefs knew they had to take the QB position up a notch and also get cheaper at that spot if they want to keep their younger talent and the goal is to win a SB.  It worked.  It wouldn't shock me if Rivera and Kyle Smith are likewise thinking a similar thing.  And its possible that they see this draft which is arguanly more stacked than normal at QB as an opportune time to make that move.  

 

 

 

I actually agree with all of this.  Alex is Alex.  There is a reason he has won so many games, but has zero rings.  There is a reason that 2 different teams have gone further without him, but always ascended with him.  He's a really good NFL QB.  He's not elite.  He's very intelligent, he excels in ball placement, and he utilizes the weapons around him.

 

As far as the draft, you're 100% right.  We could see as many as 6 QBs go in the top 45 picks of the draft... and talking more about it, you're probably right that they will TARGET a QB... but it may ultimately not be in the cards.  I think they have their marks and their prices for their guys and will not deviate from that.  They had a price they were willing to pay for Amari Cooper and did not get it... they moved on and chose to not sign another WR simply for the sake of signing a WR.  They reportedly targeted Hooper, and same thing... They didn't get him, so they didn't 'settle' to give some consolation.  I think they like Wilson... just a gut feeling, and I could see them move up ahead of Dallas to get him if he falls to Carolina (though Carolina could ultimately want him for themselves).  

 

Heck, their 'target' could be Ridder if he falls to us in the 3rd round for all we know..

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I actually agree with all of this.  Alex is Alex.  There is a reason he has won so many games, but has zero rings.  There is a reason that 2 different teams have gone further without him, but always ascended with him.  He's a really good NFL QB.  He's not elite.  He's very intelligent, he excels in ball placement, and he utilizes the weapons around him.

 

As far as the draft, you're 100% right.  We could see as many as 6 QBs go in the top 45 picks of the draft... and talking more about it, you're probably right that they will TARGET a QB... but it may ultimately not be in the cards.  I think they have their marks and their prices for their guys and will not deviate from that.  They had a price they were willing to pay for Amari Cooper and did not get it... they moved on and chose to not sign another WR simply for the sake of signing a WR.  They reportedly targeted Hooper, and same thing... They didn't get him, so they didn't 'settle' to give some consolation.  I think they like Wilson... just a gut feeling, and I could see them move up ahead of Dallas to get him if he falls to Carolina (though Carolina could ultimately want him for themselves).  

 

Heck, their 'target' could be Ridder if he falls to us in the 3rd round for all we know..

 

Agree if your point is they will target QB but without desperation where price is no object. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Dwayne Haskins Jr., Washington Football Team

Drafted: No. 15, 2019
The move: Benched
Starts before Washington cut bait: 11

Why the team moved on: Haskins' inexperience coupled with what Washington perceived as weak preparation habits during the week, a similar complaint that was heard by the previous coaching staff. If that doesn't improve, his days in Washington are numbered. Haskins started the first four games and threw four touchdowns and three interceptions, but he also had the NFL's worst Total QBR at 30.2. He was benched for Kyle Allen and remained on the sideline when Alex Smith stepped in after an Allen injury. Haskins really needed a normal offseason to get a lot of on-field work in a new offense. -- Keim

What happened next: Washington started Allen for the next four games following Haskins' benching, but he dislocated his ankle and is likely done for the season. Smith then took over and has thrown for 881 yards in his past three games combined. He will continue starting this year; the offense is moving and he's playing well, even at age 36 coming off a broken fibula and tibia. It's a remarkable comeback. Both Haskins' future and Washington's longer-term future, however, are unclear. -- Keim

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/30372727/nfl-quarterback-wasteland-why-teams-moved-round-1-qbs-be-next

[TradeTheBeal!]

Haskins now has to be watching this all unfold.  
 

Smith coming back from his injury, coach coming back from cancer, big winning streak...and thinking to himself “I want to be like this”.

 

If he can ever rebuild his career, and I think he will...it will be because of what he’s getting with the clipboard right now.

[mrfixit28]

On 12/2/2020 at 2:47 PM, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I actually agree with all of this.  Alex is Alex.  There is a reason he has won so many games, but has zero rings.  There is a reason that 2 different teams have gone further without him, but always ascended with him.  He's a really good NFL QB.  He's not elite.  He's very intelligent, he excels in ball placement, and he utilizes the weapons around him.

 

As far as the draft, you're 100% right.  We could see as many as 6 QBs go in the top 45 picks of the draft... and talking more about it, you're probably right that they will TARGET a QB... but it may ultimately not be in the cards.  I think they have their marks and their prices for their guys and will not deviate from that.  They had a price they were willing to pay for Amari Cooper and did not get it... they moved on and chose to not sign another WR simply for the sake of signing a WR.  They reportedly targeted Hooper, and same thing... They didn't get him, so they didn't 'settle' to give some consolation.  I think they like Wilson... just a gut feeling, and I could see them move up ahead of Dallas to get him if he falls to Carolina (though Carolina could ultimately want him for themselves).  

 

Heck, their 'target' could be Ridder if he falls to us in the 3rd round for all we know..

 

I agree with this. Its not outside of the realm of possibility that a really good NFL QB wins a SB if we shore up the secondary and get some more strength at OL.

Haskins though.....Sorry ready to move on. He was a mistake and not part of what Rivera is building going forward. 

He wants to be a backup, that's fine. Just not for this team because of the Round 1 pretense and we drafted him. 

Draft a late Round 1 if needed but Alex is just fine for now. Nothing wrong with a rookie learning behind Alex at all.

 

[Est.1974]

I’m keeping Haskins in 2021. At least right through the offseason. He’s got a fully guaranteed deal that we are on the hook for. Make him learn behind Smith. If he can’t do that, he won’t achieve anything. 

[redskins4ever28]

2 hours ago, mrfixit28 said:

 

I agree with this. Its not outside of the realm of possibility that a really good NFL QB wins a SB if we shore up the secondary and get some more strength at OL.

Haskins though.....Sorry ready to move on. He was a mistake and not part of what Rivera is building going forward. 

He wants to be a backup, that's fine. Just not for this team because of the Round 1 pretense and we drafted him. 

Draft a late Round 1 if needed but Alex is just fine for now. Nothing wrong with a rookie learning behind Alex at all.

 

Alex smith will never win a super bowl as a starter. It just won’t happen. When you play the game completely afraid to trust in your arm and talent week in and week out, it might get you some wins, especially with low turnover rating, but I don’t think it can get a ring in today’s world unless you are extremely athletic like a Lamar. But alex plays way to safe for us to ever beat a high flying team. The Pittsburgh win is great and we all feel good. Our d is coming together and our offense played hard nose ball with Alex making good decisions. But if we played Pittsburgh 9 more times, we probably lucky to win 1-2 more out of 9. Especially if they had Connor. Also, Seattle, New Orleans, The cardinals and rams and even Tampa bay to some extent, but especially Green Bay, we have no shot at keeping up if they go on a tear. We need a qb. Is it haskins? Idk maybe. I think they never should have played him in the first place. It does a qb a ton of good to watch for a season so he can learn ****. Either way, it’s not alex Smith. 

[Panninho]

 

Let's hope all the reports are right about him embracing his new role and being supportive of everyone. He is still a talented QB.

[Est.1974]

I think it would be intriguing to listen to Haskins in an interview some time soon. I’d really like to see how he would come across under questioning/ in discussion.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Panninho said:

 

Let's hope all the reports are right about him embracing his new role and being supportive of everyone. He is still a talented QB.

Whether he’s embracing the role or not, this is the right track for him. Using social media to embrace teammates instead of throwing shade. This is fairly encouraging.

[method man]

Alex was there for him last year. Not surprised he has been supportive. 
 

Here’s a thought exercise: where would OSU Haskins rank in this draft? I think he is QB5 at best

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, method man said:

Alex was there for him last year. Not surprised he has been supportive. 
 

Here’s a thought exercise: where would OSU Haskins rank in this draft? I think he is QB5 at best

 

QB5 is probably around correct, in my opinion. He and Lance are similar as passers... need development. Haskins has a stronger arm I think, but it's close. Haskins has a quicker release consistently... Lance has legs that allow him a lot of extra developmental time. I'd put Lance ahead of him because of that. Then taking into account reports of work ethic and how his teammates view him and I think Lance is clearly ahead.

 

I think Haskins and Mac Jones would be pretty close, though I could see the argument for Mac/Trask over him. 

 

Haskins would be in the 5-7 range in this year's class.

 

And ironically, although he'd probably feel worse about his draft location... Going later in the draft would have helped him SIGNIFICANTLY in getting developmental time and likely where he got drafted... A better team may have drafted him as a developmental guy and thus started his career on a much better foot. 

[ggarriso]

Why do I wake up after a great victory and another solid performance by Alex Smith and see this thread bumped up.  Is this donkey still on the team?  Hes done here - he is a failed QB and a failed social media influencer (which all of this hanging off Alexs' coat tails is simply an attempt at).  None of this is genuine, "doo-doo king" is a never have been, stop hanging on his every word and hoping he will eventually "get it", he wont.

 

 

[method man]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

QB5 is probably around correct, in my opinion. He and Lance are similar as passers... need development. Haskins has a stronger arm I think, but it's close. Haskins has a quicker release consistently... Lance has legs that allow him a lot of extra developmental time. I'd put Lance ahead of him because of that. Then taking into account reports of work ethic and how his teammates view him and I think Lance is clearly ahead.

 

I think Haskins and Mac Jones would be pretty close, though I could see the argument for Mac/Trask over him. 

 

Haskins would be in the 5-7 range in this year's class.

 

And ironically, although he'd probably feel worse about his draft location... Going later in the draft would have helped him SIGNIFICANTLY in getting developmental time and likely where he got drafted... A better team may have drafted him as a developmental guy and thus started his career on a much better foot. 

I agree on 5-7. I wonder if any teams removed him from their draft boards after hearing the maturity concerns from OSU. If this team had not taken him #15, I feel he would’ve fallen into the 2nd

[Llevron]

I love that hes got Goku in the tank as his avatar. Lots of fun meaning behind that one lol.

 

Freakin nerd 

[LD0506]

I don't think Ron will just give up on Haskins, that's not the kinda guy or the kinda coach he is. The game last night was great, but not just because of the outcome. You can feel the spirit on the team, young guys coming together to build something that is theirs. I have to believe that Chase and Terry are both in Dwayne's ear about how things are going and trying to get him to let go and buy in for the greater good. He's not done until he gives up.

 

And I swear to doG I want to root for Haskins even more when I see some of the comments just to make some people have to eat ccrow

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I love that hes got Goku in the tank as his avatar. Lots of fun meaning behind that one lol.

 

Freakin nerd 

 

You recognized it!  Takes one to know one.

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

Why do I wake up after a great victory and another solid performance by Alex Smith and see this thread bumped up.  Is this donkey still on the team?  Hes done here - he is a failed QB and a failed social media influencer (which all of this hanging off Alexs' coat tails is simply an attempt at).  None of this is genuine, "doo-doo king" is a never have been, stop hanging on his every word and hoping he will eventually "get it", he wont.

 

 

 

You have entirely too much vitriol for a young guy who has done nothing terribly wrong besides have a immature attitude as a barely 20-something.

 

 

[JSSkinz]

I'm sorry but the people who posted obsessively in this thread (some who are smart football people, or at least I thought they were) who were just ripping Ron Rivera for being a terrible coach all because of Haskins should admit they were wrong.

 

Jacks got a message for you and you know who you are.