Riggo#44

Its worse, we are apathetic.

Agree to disagree on this, but fantastic debate this morning!

I think you're seriously underrating Haskins, Young, and Tua's durability concerns. They did, until Shanahan **** the bed. Pat Mahomes is interesting. I wonder what the conversation would have been if we had to play at all his 1st year?

I think Haskins is too, and he's healthier. I don't want to touch Tua's injury concerns. Young alters your gameplan. I don't think he can be accounted for in just stats. I think you have a premier pass rush. And you want to stop a great QB--you beat the **** out of him.

Well it was 4 D-lineman. Either way, you can not have enough pass rushers. ANd there is a significant possibility Tua might not stay on the field. Greater possibility than I would want at the second overall pick. Exactly my point. Every player is an opportunity cost. You make the best decision possible. What is the best decision here? Going with a small-ish QB with significant durability issues (even if his medicals come back clear, he still has a long injury history)? Are you going to pass on a superior player in Young to take Tua? Hard, hard pass. Give me Young and Haskins. (And thank you for not making the Cardinals comparison--Josh Rosen sucked and got worse as his rookie year went on--1 TD pass in his final 5 or 6 games). Young improves your team far better than Tua does. I'm not 100% sold on Haskins. He need to prove it, but I saw enough improvement last year that taking a QB with the 2nd overall pick would be insane. I wouldn't even take Burrow, if the Bengals take Young. It'd take the treasure trove of picks.

It's actually 4 in a row. Allen, Payne, Sweat, and most likely Young. The big difference is you can play all 4 at the same time. You can put one a LB, like Von Miller, if need be. Kerrigan too. You can never have too many pass rushers. Except QB...unless you believe in a multiple QB set, which is a gimmick, used a handful of times in a season. So what you're saying is we can get both? Other wise we are passing on one to get the other. That's what opportunity cost is. It's the loss of the potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen. So you're going to keep both QBs on the roster? That is a huge waste of resources. And Tua has major, major durability issues.

You're passing on Chase Young to take Tua. We are guaranteed the opportunity to take Young. Guaranteed. He's there, we take Tua. We lose out on Young. We now have 2 QBs. We would have to trade Haskins. The opportunity cost to take Tua is Chase Young and Haskins. We have Kerrigan and Sweat no matter what we do in the deaft.

However, in order to take Tua, we have to pass on Young. Therefore, we are giving up on both Haskins and Young. Herbet screams bust to me, I don't know why, he just does. Maybe it's Oregon in general--but Mariota was higher rated coming out, I think. Allen was not as good as Haskins coming out--he was less accurate than Haskins was (~56% comp??). Darnold probably was better coming out of college.

For this argument to make sense, Tua has to be worth Haskins (or what ever we would get in trade for him) and Chase Young. Is he? I don't think so. Haskins rates as a better prospect than Darnold, Herbert (who was not great last year), and Josh Allen. I think you have Jackson WAY too low. And my hot take--I am not sold on Burrow. I worry about fumbles with his hand size at this level, his arm strength is a question, and he is a one-year wonder. Those are legitimate questions.

The difference in message between Keim and Russell is the different between Max Scherzer and Erick Fedde

How much higher would you have to have Tua graded to pass on Chase Young? And, if he's graded that high, is Burrows that much better? Why wouldn't Cincinnati take him?

Not for me, when we already have a demonstrably improving QB, and we can form a 2007-2011 GIants/2019 9ers type D-line.

baktedtater going home:

This requires passing on Chase Young.

You're right. No one ever passes on a player to develop what they have. No one ever improves. This is a pointless argument--we're taking Chase Young.