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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

**** I must have missed those years. Just say he’s a late bloomer and its nearer 28


Need him to have a child ASAP. I say this from personal experience lol

Edited by wit33
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Thomas on Haskins ;

“I think he’s been doing a great job these last however many weeks,” Thomas said on NBC's The Sports Junkies on Wednesday. “You definitely see a change in how he’s holding himself, how he’s engaged, how he wants to be a part of it, how he’s excited to come into work everyday and learn something new. I’m proud of him. When the whole thing happened where he ended up getting benched, I told him, ‘Help this fuel you, make you better. And down the road, when you get that chance again, go ball and don’t ever look back.’ I have expectations that when he does get that chance, that’s exactly what he’ll do.”

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/comments-logan-thomas-leave-us-172552770.html

 

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Scrolling through various player threads on the board, one thing I find consistent is that fans will generally give up on players too soon and/or project their own limitations on them. Maybe this will turn into another one of those threads.  The Haskins saga left off with him needing a lot of work, but he is a professional athlete for a reason. Even I've thought it was a long shot he would respond positively to everything that has happened, but that's what seems to be happening. The "leaks" lately have taken a different tune. 

 

If he were pouting on the sidelines and posting shady tweets, people would have no problem burying him for it. I don't agree with the cynical responses to him doing the right thing. I'll just keep watching to see if it is consistent, and if he has really turned a corner, we should welcome him with open arms. He received his punishment and public humiliation. Give him the chance to earn back respect and change his story. At the end of the day, it's on him to step up and learn from his past mistakes. We aren't such a perfect organization that we shouldn't allow him to.

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13 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Scrolling through various player threads on the board, one thing I find consistent is that fans will generally give up on players too soon and/or project their own limitations on them. Maybe this will turn into another one of those threads.  The Haskins saga left off with him needing a lot of work, but he is a professional athlete for a reason. Even I've thought it was a long shot he would respond positively to everything that has happened, but that's what seems to be happening. The "leaks" lately have taken a different tune. 

 

If he were pouting on the sidelines and posting shady tweets, people would have no problem burying him for it. I don't agree with the cynical responses to him doing the right thing. I'll just keep watching to see if it is consistent, and if he has really turned a corner, we should welcome him with open arms. He received his punishment and public humiliation. Give him the chance to earn back respect and change his story. At the end of the day, it's on him to step up and learn from his past mistakes. We aren't such a perfect organization that we shouldn't allow him to.


If things behind the scenes are managed it makes too much sense to not retain his services. At worst he’s an extremely cheap and valuable backup QB riding out his rookie contract. If he or reps choose to make noise again in the off season the organization must move on. Which is fascinating in its own right, the player and reps may deem that the smart move to get a “better” opportunity elsewhere. 

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7 hours ago, redskins4ever28 said:

I’ve always been a big believer in a new young qb sitting the first year or even 2 so he can learn the game and watch the vet. Haskins having only one year under his belt in college should have never started so soon. Mahomes sitting his first year behind smith he said helped him more then anything else he learned that year. Rodgers Said sitting behind favre the first year was one of the best things that could have happened to him. A lot of qbs aren’t amazing right away. Brees took two years before he turned it on. Manning was awful his rookie year.  Romo once said something like watching Bledsoe for a year and a half before he got his shot taught him so many details of playing qb he never would have thought of otherwise.  I truly truly believe haskins does deserve one more shot to show his skills. I don’t know when, but hopefully he will get a chance. We aren’t going to be In the drafting race for the Lawrence sweepstakes, so we might as well keep Dwayne (unless we do find a better qb fall to us in the draft late in the first but I doubt that happens), maybe he will show his progress

 

I think this is fair. It would be great if instead of having to draft yet another QB, we could instead use that 1st on a skill position or lineman.

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The Dwayne is now fired up and doing it right drill is a rerurn of last season but just in a different form.   Last year it was Dwayne didn't like being a backup and preparing for games as a backup so he wasn't going at it hard but as soon as he was thrust into the starting role he got fired up.  I recall one beat guy said back then a player told them that Haskins told them that he's starting seeing the value of taking work home with him and studying or something like that.  There was this vibe then that Haskins got fired up after not being fired up previously. 

 

I got little doubt that Haskins is fired up again.   I'd bet its true.   Every individual is naturally different.  But its also tough for us to just ignore our own sample with people when guessing others.  From my sample of associates and friends over the years, I know some who fit Haskins description to a tee in that they get fired up for a faze but it simply doesn't last.  I strongly suspect Haskins is the same way mainly because the up and down nature of his motivation is fairly well documented already. 

 

Rivera was asked in a press conference weeks back if work ethic is innate and his response was he thinks it partly is.  I agree with him.  I just think some people are just naturally grinders-type A types and others not so much.  I doubt for example Manning had a phase in his pro career where his coaches had to egg him on to work harder.  I just think the dude was likely a grinder by nature.  

 

Gibbs said once more or less he could tell if his rookie players would make it or not fairly quickly that first year by judging their work habits primarily.  

 

Having said that, I got no idea if Haskins fits a pattern or not.  But just explaining part of my cynicism about it.   Bottom line for me about Haskins, is I trust Rivera 100% on this.  If he thinks Haskins is the dude, I am on board.  If he doesn't, and wants to cut bait I support that, too.

 

I get that wouldn't it be great if Haskins is a franchise QB and he's in the building now.  I personally doubt it.  I am not high on his play or intangibles.  But I'd still love it to be true.  Judging by beat guys who have been asked recently about what do they think Rivera thinks of Haskins now -- their take seems to be Haskins still had quite some ways to redeem himself and hasn't done so fully yet.    Their feeling is they will move on from Haskins in the off season.  Will see. 

 

 

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I also wonder how much of Haskins's motivation might be with the promise/plan of going to a new team next season.

 

He knows there are teams who need quarterbacks where he could land. Perhaps even with softer coaches. Who knows. But we do know that Mulugheta is in his ear.

 

In any case, my read is that the situation is fluid. Outcomes could shift based on everything from how Dwayne behaves to how Alex's health holds up to how our draft board shakes out to Kyle's recovery process and more. For now, I personally feel it's 50-50 whether he's on the roster next year but very slim chances of him getting much game action. But let's see what happens.

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11 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

I'm not writing off Haskins entirely, but also...

 

"getting it" for a few weeks when your career is literally in jeopardy is cheap.

 

Picking up Alex on the sideline when you know the cameras are on you in a nationally televised game can be read generously or cynically. I'll say this, I'm sure Dwayne was not surprised when the media picked up on it.

 

Posting supportive tweets can be read generously or cynically.

 

Ultimately, the coaches will know what he's doing behind the scenes and out of view from the media.  And it's up to Dwayne to show consistency in his inner APE as Ron calls it: his Attitude, Preparation and Effort. 

 

If he does seem like he's turning a corner, that's the best case not just for him but for this football team. If he doesn't, or they don't have confidence he will, we got a draft coming up that is deep at the Quarterback position and I am sure Ron and Kyle are looking closely at those guys as well.

 

I'll say this, depending on where we end up picking, Dwayne very much could have the opportunity to be on this roster next year. But only if he demonstrates he values that opportunity, and the FO decide he's earned it.

 

 

when you're on the sidelines you don't know the camera are on you.

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Just now, carex said:

 

when you're on the sidelines you don't know the camera are on you.

 

If you're wandering around, sure. But when your starting QB scrambles and takes a hit and you immediately go help him up, you know there are cameras picking it up. Just like you know tweets are visible to all. I'm not saying that in of itself means he's doing it just for show, but let's not pretend he isn't aware of the optics either. Mulugheta damn sure would have told him at least that much.

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Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

If you're wandering around, sure. But when your starting QB scrambles and takes a hit and you immediately go help him up, you know there are cameras picking it up. Just like you know tweets are visible to all. I'm not saying that in of itself means he's doing it just for show, but let's not pretend he isn't aware of the optics either. Mulugheta damn sure would have told him at least that much.

I think you're full of it

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8 minutes ago, carex said:

I think you're full of it

 

Haha all right buddy, no skin off my back. My career is in Hollywood. Used to work at a talent agency, was at a studio for a while, ran investments for an A-list celebrity and now a screenwriter myself. I have spent plenty of time around talent & w/ people both in front of and behind the camera, including some folks in the sports world. I am not mindlessly speculating here. But you believe what you want. I have zero inside information, just reading the situation based on my life experience.

 

I know @Skinsinparadise has experience in politics. I'm not surprised he's reading things mostly similarly to how I am. Not being overly cynical but not being naive either. Makes a difference when you've seen how the sausage is made in similar places.

 

Edited by CapsSkins
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He absolutely could be doing it for the positive exposure, for reasons beyond what we’d all like to think.

 

But even if he is... isn’t that still an improvement in his demeanor, attitude and strategic intelligence?

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5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He absolutely could be doing it for the positive exposure, for reasons beyond what we’d all like to think.

 

But even if he is... isn’t that still an improvement in his demeanor, attitude and strategic intelligence?

 

Yes 100%

 

And like I said earlier, the bigger key is how he's behaving when the public and the media aren't around. In the meeting rooms, on the practice field, at home with his iPad and playbook. We won't know that, but Ron will and I trust Ron 100%. Which is why I'm unconcerned and content to let the situation play out.

 

I am absolutely not saying Haskins is irredeemable. But I am also not saying he has redeemed himself, is close to redeeming himself, or ultimately even will get that chance in Washington. It's based on several factors, only some of which are in his control, and fewer still which are in public view. 

 

Edited by CapsSkins
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It seems like Haskins lacks internal motivation to the degree needed to maintain a consistent work ethic that is Independent of the ups and downs of external emotional stimulation. I disagree that this is something innate that you either have or you don’t because I didn’t have it at first myself, but gained and developed that ethic over time through self-individuation, developing meaning for my actions, and a deeper connection to something greater and more sacred than my situational wants and needs. 
 

However, those adaptations take a lot to come to fruition and I don’t know if Haskins has truly hit that wall in life, hard enough to humble him to the point of truly changing who he is to that depth. 

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I wouldn't trust Haskins at all.  His apparently better attitude could just be him, trying to get his starting job back.. If he's successful in that; I think he will revert back to his old self.

 

I think his agent demands a trade or to be cut, if Dwayne doesn't have a shot at the starting job in 2021.  Dwayne will not want to spend a 2021 on the bench under Alex.

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5 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Haha all right buddy, no skin off my back. My career is in Hollywood. Used to work at a talent agency, was at a studio for a while, ran investments for an A-list celebrity and now a screenwriter myself. I have spent plenty of time around talent & w/ people both in front of and behind the camera, including some folks in the sports world. I am not mindlessly speculating here. But you believe what you want. I have zero inside information, just reading the situation based on my life experience.

 

I know @Skinsinparadise has experience in politics. I'm not surprised he's reading things mostly similarly to how I am. Not being overly cynical but not being naive either. Makes a difference when you've seen how the sausage is made in similar places.

 

This whole post made me throw up in my mouth.

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9 hours ago, KDawg said:

He absolutely could be doing it for the positive exposure, for reasons beyond what we’d all like to think.

 

But even if he is... isn’t that still an improvement in his demeanor, attitude and strategic intelligence?

 

His outward demeanor is definitely an improvement.  But as for Haskins, I always thought he was a good guy.  I have gotten into on this thread some personal albeit small examples of watching his behavior with my kids as an example.  Super nice dude.  So I do think he genuinely would help a player up like Alex, etc.   I've heard again and again that players in the locker room like him.

 

To me the top issue with Haskins is I just don't believe in his talent.  Yes, he has a live arm.   But otherwise he has IMO problems which I've outlined on this thread before.    I do think even with the ideal attitude Haskins ends up a below average starter or high end back up.  I felt that way before the draft.    As for the work ethic issues, I can think of 5 different periods where it was supposedly hot and cold which has been documented on this thread before -- at Ohio State, pre-draft, season 1, off season 2 and now in season 2.  The Haskins is now fired up drill isn't a new movie but a re-run.  Maybe this time it holds.   

 

I do agree the sideline demeanor has improved.  It's possible that it is going to finally click in permanently work ethic wise, too.  Will see.  I bought the new beginnings stuff hook line and sinker as to Haskins in the off season.  If you go through my posts on this thread as I joke about I've been up and down about Haskins.  So I've been far from cynical about some of these new narratives about Haskins now getting it.  But since I've been fooled before by this, I am not going to reflexively buy this time Haskins turned a new corner and all is good.

 

And who knows if the beat guys are right but they are the only ones who are talking to people in that building and the sense I get from listening/reading their stuff is that there is still some serious skepticism in that building about Haskins. 

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9 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

It seems like Haskins lacks internal motivation to the degree needed to maintain a consistent work ethic that is Independent of the ups and downs of external emotional stimulation. I disagree that this is something innate that you either have or you don’t because I didn’t have it at first myself, but gained and developed that ethic over time through self-individuation, developing meaning for my actions, and a deeper connection to something greater and more sacred than my situational wants and needs. 
 

However, those adaptations take a lot to come to fruition and I don’t know if Haskins has truly hit that wall in life, hard enough to humble him to the point of truly changing who he is to that depth. 

 

Sure, anyone can change habits/behavior including Haskins.  But people's personalities tend to be more static than mutable everything being equal.  You got me if he turns the corner this time.   But my cynicism about this is I bought into Haskins changed before.  This time, I sort of look at the new beginnings for Haskins as a pattern versus buying in that this time its real.  As I mentioned in the above post, I can think of 5 instances during his career where we've heard this narrative about Haskins not being as fully in or working as hard as was expected and then boom the lightening bulb hit and now he's on fire.  Then rinse and repeat. 

 

So this time for me I'll wait to see it play out some more before buying into it especially considering I bought into it big time this off season.   I think I'd feel better about it if the beat guys start saying privately they are hearing they are blown away by Haskins 'transformation" and got their guy versus they are likely heavily looking at QB this off season. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I think you guys are leaning way too much into this “maybe he can develop” narrative and going too hard on it.

 

Optimism doesn’t mean the same thing as likelihood. 
 

Hoping for a turnaround doesn’t mean his football prowess has changed. 
 

But when a light goes on a lot of things can change. So be open minded and let’s see what our football people, who are proving to be very football savvy, do.

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honestly this switch between he's working so hard and he's not working hard enough strikes me as such bull that is internally inconsistent the only way I've been able to square it is the mention of not studying game film enough is that he works hard on stuff that's under his control, his arm strength, accuracy, working with the receivers, the playbook and maybe he doesn't work enough on what's not under his control, studying and predicting the other guys

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16 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Scrolling through various player threads on the board, one thing I find consistent is that fans will generally give up on players too soon and/or project their own limitations on them. Maybe this will turn into another one of those threads.  

 

You know I never noticed that but its totally a human thing to do and I suspect alot of that is happening. 

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I'd say that Haskins doesn't have some attributes we'd like to see from him, but then a lot of young guys come into the league very good at football but lousy at a lot of the underlying elements of being successful or a good teammate. So IMO the jury is still out on DH.

 

More directly and importantly to me, as much as people like to talk about culture and culture change, what is that exactly? It is not a result of winning, the winning comes afterwards, and it is not something you breathe life into with memos and meetings. Culture in a club is about trust, belief, team spirit and we are seeing that take root, especially with the young guys. A guy like McLaurin got it before he ever joined the team, Alex gets it, but it is not and never is unanimous, it's a feeling and 'tude and a range of behavior that a group shares amongst themselves. But a large part of that is the accountability and responsibility you have to ante up first. And there's the rub.

 

Some guys bring it, some guys need it, some guys never do get it, it's just the way it is. Dwayne needs it, he needs to learn that he is not THE ONE, he needs to learn how to let go of the ego thing and be a part of a larger whole. That didn't exist when he got drafted, and he got a lot of stimulus to NOT buy in his first year, and even after RR got here he is skeptical. Ok, I get that, Trent was skeptical and beat feet rather than buy in. I kinda feel like its asking a lot of a rook to just do it when he sees the best player on the roster bailing, just do it without any guarantee or assurance, but that's where you cross that foggy border into faith.

 

NOW, for the first time, he is in an environment where he sees that culture, he sees the effect it has on the guys around him. If it is going to stick he will have to buy in but he will also need to see that change consistently and constantly. He is getting some of that positive behavioral change, gonna take a while to overwrite some of the old Ego1.0 programming but the opportunity exists.

 

Ultimately though I agree with just letting Rivera play it out. And that to me is not about Haskins as starting QB, that is about Haskins growing up into someone that gets a shot at that. 

 

And I still dream about that season @OSU, he can do this. 

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3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

You know I never noticed that but its totally a human thing to do and I suspect alot of that is happening. 

 

I just don't understand the mentality of giving up on people.

 

If a dude shows they don't have it and doesn't get the job done, then yeah, they aren't that guy right now.

 

But the continuing prevalence of the idea that guys don't turn the corner, it's inherent, is incredibly incorrect based on my life experiences.

 

I've had players that I've coached who didn't care, didn't try and didn't get it done. They wound up quitting. Despite our reservations, we usually gave these guys another chance. 

 

Sometimes they continued that same behavior after an initial spurt of positive change and made us look like fools.

 

Sometimes they improved themselves, but it was more of an off the field improvement versus an on the field improvement and didn't help the team but the lessons learned may have helped their life move forward.

 

Sometimes they changed completely. They worked hard, played hard, studied hard. These are juniors and seniors in high school... 16-18 years old. Haskins isn't that much older than them. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree that "giving up" on a guy when he is proving to be a negative, toxic influence on the culture within a set period of time and within specific confines is completely appropriate. That's why I think Rivera made an excellent move in sitting Haskins down. Haskins wasn't grasping the message, his maturity was permeating to the team and things weren't looking like Rivera wanted them to. So he acted in the interest of the franchise to sit the guy who was not mentally, physically or emotionally ready to be a franchise quarterback in the NFL.

 

If he had traded him, I don't believe that constitutes as giving up on him on a humane level, I believe it means maximizing a business transaction and offsetting optimism with reality in a way that you feel you are getting more value for the player in draft picks than you would from the player playing in the current environment.

 

But as mentioned in my definition of giving up, they gave up on him in that timeframe. Rivera has said, numerous times, that he has not given up on Haskins the person.

 

Whether Haskins is disingenuous or not is beyond my scope of knowledge. If he proves that he learned no lessons than letting him go as a football player is a smart business decision, likely best for Rivera and likely best for Haskins. 

 

But what if he proves he learned? What IF Alex Smith motivates him... The guy almost lost his leg and now he is helping lead this team towards a real playoff push. What if Haskins sees that and says, "Damn. This is what it's all about..."

 

From a pure football perspective:

 

-Dwayne Haskins has a very live arm

-Dwayne Haskins has a very fast release

-Dwayne Haskins has the size to be a prototypical NFL Quarterback

-Dwayne Haskins struggles with accuracy, a lot of times due to mechanical issues

-Dwayne Haskins hasn't, to the point we've seen on the field, learned to deal with adversity

-Dwayne Haskins struggles to read a defense

-Dwayne Haskins doesn't have elite athletic traits as far as running with the ball and making something out of nothing.

 

Let's be honest, there's a reason that a lot of really smart people liked this guy coming out. I didn't like his accuracy and footwork so I didn't love him. But I saw the potential just like everyone else seemed to. I didn't like his reads and mechanics. They sucked, in my opinion. But the potential is in your face. 

 

Going through that list, specifically the negatives, all but the running ability is correctable.

 

That doesn't mean it's easy. But a guy who buys in and works at it can fix that stuff. And with a guy that is in year 2 of a 5 year contract, is it that bad to at least see what he can now through the offseason?

 

Is it a bad idea to see if his improvements translate to the field?

 

Is he hurting the team being on the roster? Is his attitude corrupting the locker room? Is he hurting team chemistry?

 

If the answer is no, why not see?

 

I don't think he'll turn a switch and all of a sudden be a master of reading defenses. I don't think his mechanics are ever going to be good enough to not revert from time to time and I don't think he's the type of guy who can look adversity in the eye and say, "**** you. I am the storm. Not you."

 

But who knows? 

 

I don't get the urge to totally give up on a guy that still has a story to tell. 

 

Let the story be written. Chapter 1 and 2 is in the books and it looks like a tragic tale. But who knows what the ending of chapter 2 and start of chapter 3 look like. A book is more than a few chapters.

 

 

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