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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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Coaches have egos... they believe they can make something work where it hasn't before.   I imagine Haskins will have trade value come the offseason... that 'value' may be minimal, but don't be surprised if we hear that people start kicking the tires between this season and next.  Baseball managers will see a guy who can throw 98 and they get a twinkle in their eye, even if the guy can't hit the strikezone to save his life.  A QB with a live arm will almost always have the attention of an NFL coach...  I don't think an in-season trade was possible because of the covid restrictions... the need to learn a system, and other factors.  Come the new league year, the momentum could change. 

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1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'm actually not sure. What I'm saying is since Arizona was in position to get someone widely viewed as a better prospect, it kind of gave the perception that it wasn't Rosen's play that caused Arizona to draft Murray, which I think helped his draft stock not plummet. 

 

If Arizona had picked 15th instead of 1st and drafted Haskins (a less sure prospect), more people would have been wondering what the hell was wrong with Rosen lol. 

It helped that Rosen didn’t look terrible in his short stint in Arizona 

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21 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

It's a beautiful thing seeing Tom Brady look sooo bad in Tampa these days, I wonder if they'd be interested in Dwayne this offseason? Brady has Gronk, Evans, Godwin and Antonio Brown and they still can't score....bad move bringing in AB to ruin the chemistry. 


Arians is and always has been overrated. You have Two 2-way TE’s, two bruising rbs, and 3 viable wr options. ( one of which is still elite). But here you are throwing 40 yd bombs on early downs, and using fournette as a 3rd down receiving back, and zero playaction, while ignoring the run completely after landing perhaps one of the best tackles in the draft in Wirfs. This shouldn’t be on Brady. It’s a losing play style. 

Edited by Skin'emAlive
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15 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:


Yes he absolutely did. He was awful. 

I remember him looking... decent considering what he had to work with. I remember him getting sacked a ton and making a lot of boneheaded throws under duress but I didn't see enough to consider him a bad pick. But that's just me. 

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Just now, PartyPosse said:

I remember him looking... decent considering what he had to work with. I remember him getting sacked a ton and making a lot of boneheaded throws under duress but I didn't see enough to consider him a bad pick. But that's just me. 


They had the no.1 pick after a year with him, and he had already shown he couldn’t handle nfl pressure. He turned it over a lot. Now he’s pretty much out of the league. Haskins had 4 games last year with half the team on IR, and the coaching staff updating their resumes. I don’t think it’s fair to compare to Haskins. 

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25 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:


They had the no.1 pick after a year with him, and he had already shown he couldn’t handle nfl pressure. He turned it over a lot. Now he’s pretty much out of the league. Haskins had 4 games last year with half the team on IR, and the coaching staff updating their resumes. I don’t think it’s fair to compare to Haskins. 

I never made the comparison. 

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1 minute ago, Skin'emAlive said:


Well it’s a Haskins thread, lol. Perhaps I was wrong in the insinuation. 

Nah, I just added to when I believe you mentioned that Arizona didn't give the impression they wanted to dump Rosen. I just mentioned I believe they made it obvious once they drafted Murray (or something to the effect of). Either way. Isn't Rosen on TB's practice squad now?

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I want to see Dwayne succeed. But he has to learn how to throw a pass to a rb with more touch. I never thought of that as a difficult thing to do. But he missed badly far too many times. It’s the staple of Turner’s offense. That will probably be the biggest factor in whether he gets another shot here, or we draft his replacement. 

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3 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:


Arians is and always has been overrated. You have Two 2-way TE’s, two bruising rbs, and 3 viable wr options. ( one of which is still elite). But here you are throwing 40 yd bombs on early downs, and using fournette as a 3rd down receiving back, and zero playaction, while ignoring the run completely after landing perhaps one of the best tackles in the draft in Wirfs. This shouldn’t be on Brady. It’s a losing play style. 

I agree, good points, there was a critic on ESPN today who said Arians needs to do a better job of tailoring the offense to Brady's strengths rather than trying to fit Brady into his offense. If Tampa has a quick out in the playoffs I gotta believe the Brady/Arians marriage ends with one of the two leaving. 

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17 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

Coaches have egos


I think the key here is Haskins’ ego.

 

If he can work his way back into favour with Rivera and the coaches, he has a shot at sticking around. I keep saying this, but we’d have to pay up his contract has eat a 100% increase in his 2021 cap hit just to get rid of him. Other than his being a complete asshole, I don’t see the point to cutting ties anytime soon.

 

Unless you get someone wanting to take a flyer on him, late round pick, 2 year 4 mil deal, maybe. Feels to me like the moment has passed to jettison him for now.

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8 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


I think the key here is Haskins’ ego.

 

If he can work his way back into favour with Rivera and the coaches, he has a shot at sticking around. I keep saying this, but we’d have to pay up his contract has eat a 100% increase in his 2021 cap hit just to get rid of him. Other than his being a complete asshole, I don’t see the point to cutting ties anytime soon.

 

Unless you get someone wanting to take a flyer on him, late round pick, 2 year 4 mil deal, maybe. Feels to me like the moment has passed to jettison him for now.

 

 

Thats what i meant, a late round pick is about the only option i see as 'possible.'  The coaches ego that I was referring to is the ego that coaches see a player and think they can get more out of that player than previous coaches.  I get this sense that Belichick has his eyes on Haskins and could make a play for him.  This is what he does.  He takes talent and buys low.  Haskins has talent...  his physical tools have never been the question.  This screams the type of move (to me) where the Pats offer a 6th that could become a 5th pending production..

 

I was not taking into question Rivera's ego (although it probably is a piece of this whole puzzle), just stating that other coaches egos could lead them to want to give him a chance because he's got a big arm and they think they can do better with him. 

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From the Rhiannon Walker mailbag article:

 

How likely do you think it is that Haskins is on the roster next season? — Barry E.

I’m at the point where I think he stays put next season — about a 70 percent probability, if you’d like a percentage. A few reasons give me that impression: He’s doing well with the things he can control, such as his enthusiasm for his teammates on the sideline when they score, or picking them up — literally, as you probably saw with Alex Smith — when bad things happen. Quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese said Haskins is spending more time with him to go over the plays, really learning how to study the right way so he gets the information he needs out of the playbook, as well as watching what Smith is doing to learn why it’s working. The things off the field and in the classroom have picked up substantially as Haskins has been removed from the spotlight. Ron Rivera said last week that the coaching staff wants to create some opportunities for him to play, and that raised my antenna a bit, as did Zampese’s call for patience with Haskins’ development without being specifically asked.

Haskins has two more years on his rookie deal, plus the fifth-year option if the team decides to exercise it. I might also be leaning this way because I’m personally curious as to what he would look like with a full, traditional offseason, then a full set of preseason games where he was competing without the abbreviated practice time he’s had this year.

 

https://theathletic.com/2223759/2020/12/01/__trashed-24/?source=emp_shared_article

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3 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

just stating that other coaches egos could lead them to want to give him a chance because he's got a big arm and they think they can do better with him. 

In general, I think this is true.  However, the lack of noise around Haskins via virtually everyone that talks to GMs on a regular basis tells me that isn't going to be the case here.  Beyond the hub bub about what he is or isn't doing as a pro, is the fact that his 'big arm' lacks touch and accuracy.  The juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze if you ask me.

 

I mean I'd love it for him to prove me wrong and do a 180 and either play well or net us a decent draft pick in trade.  But even with the positive news about his change in attitude, the 'on the field' stuff is still the primary issue.

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2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

In general, I think this is true.  However, the lack of noise around Haskins via virtually everyone that talks to GMs on a regular basis tells me that isn't going to be the case here.  Beyond the hub bub about what he is or isn't doing as a pro, is the fact that his 'big arm' lacks touch and accuracy.  The juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze if you ask me.

 

I mean I'd love it for him to prove me wrong and do a 180 and either play well or net us a decent draft pick in trade.  But even with the positive news about his change in attitude, the 'on the field' stuff is still the primary issue.

 

 

I know, i'm not holding my breath... just expect to hear reports of inquiries come the offseason.  That inquiry could just be "is he available" and nothing really more than that.  It would not shock me to see someone offer us a 6th for him, or some conditional style compensation.... if nothing else to just get him into camp and see for themselves.  I don't think we let him go for that... but actually imagine these questions have already been asked. 

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2 hours ago, Panninho said:

From the Rhiannon Walker mailbag article:

 

How likely do you think it is that Haskins is on the roster next season? — Barry E.

I’m at the point where I think he stays put next season — about a 70 percent probability, if you’d like a percentage. A few reasons give me that impression: He’s doing well with the things he can control, such as his enthusiasm for his teammates on the sideline when they score, or picking them up — literally, as you probably saw with Alex Smith — when bad things happen. Quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese said Haskins is spending more time with him to go over the plays, really learning how to study the right way so he gets the information he needs out of the playbook, as well as watching what Smith is doing to learn why it’s working. The things off the field and in the classroom have picked up substantially as Haskins has been removed from the spotlight. Ron Rivera said last week that the coaching staff wants to create some opportunities for him to play, and that raised my antenna a bit, as did Zampese’s call for patience with Haskins’ development without being specifically asked.

Haskins has two more years on his rookie deal, plus the fifth-year option if the team decides to exercise it. I might also be leaning this way because I’m personally curious as to what he would look like with a full, traditional offseason, then a full set of preseason games where he was competing without the abbreviated practice time he’s had this year.

This is what I see as the most accurate reading. It’s a coach’s job to coach — teach, get people going in the right direction. I forget when he came out, but IIRC, Dwayne should be a redshirt senior this year. He’s young and the young aren’t know for having great maturity. I think they wanna see what they’ve got with a full year of their program and coaching 

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22 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


I think the key here is Haskins’ ego.

 

If he can work his way back into favour with Rivera and the coaches, he has a shot at sticking around. I keep saying this, but we’d have to pay up his contract has eat a 100% increase in his 2021 cap hit just to get rid of him. Other than his being a complete asshole, I don’t see the point to cutting ties anytime soon.

 

Unless you get someone wanting to take a flyer on him, late round pick, 2 year 4 mil deal, maybe. Feels to me like the moment has passed to jettison him for now.

 

I'm looking at these games lately (particularly the two wins) and wondering what is so different from Haskins. What was this thread talking about so much with Haskins? 

 - His low QBR

 - His low average yards per attempt 

 

Now compare Smith to Haskins. 

QBR of 40.0 to 31.0 (and that's including Smith's 2 300+ yard games). 

Average yards per attempt of 6.9 to 6.4

Passer Rating of 81.3 to 80.3

TD/INT of 3/5 to 4/3. 

 

I will concede that Allen has better metrics in all these metrics. But I think that the main difference between the three is just as Ron said - knowledge of the offense. I don't think that's necessarily a knock on Haskins trying to learn the offense but just that the offseason was difficult to pick up a new offense in. I'm also not making excuses and trying to ignore the rumors now as we have heard enough from Ron himself to acknowledge they exist. 

 

But we also heard Terry come out and say they had their best practices with Kyle and people talking about Alex doing things like reminding them of things pre-snap and how calming it is. I'm going to directly correlate those things with winning. I was saying early on in the season that you can't blame Haskins for the player not going out of bounds on a drive before the half that ended up in no points, or a player fumbling after the catch, but you can give a nod to Smith for saying "hey remember we're in a critical spot here so remember to cover up the ball and get out of bounds". Ron was consistently saying that Haskins was rushing his reads. And while I think Smith (and Allen) are doing a good job of getting the ball out quickly, the difference is that in my opinion, they have more of an understanding of the offense so (1) they are more decisive on where they're throwing the ball and (2) if guys are running too close or bunching up, they can call it out and say "hey Inman, you ran that route too close to Logan last time, I need you to get a bit deeper next time."

 

I also see that the running game has developed a lot more now, partcularly to the point where Gibson has more patience and better vision. Those two almost consecutive TD runs (there were some Barber carries in between and one other Gibson run) by Gibson are what I have been calling for all year - more big plays that showed his explosiveness. He has been showing he can break tackles all year but not that he could take plays to the house. 

 

I'm not saying Haskins is the guy or will be ever again, but I do notice how we're winning so the stuff that we criticized Haskins for is excused with Smith, even to the point where Smith's mistakes (ints) aren't criticized the way Haskins dumpoffs were. 

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47 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I'm not saying Haskins is the guy or will be ever again, but I do notice how we're winning so the stuff that we criticized Haskins for is excused with Smith, even to the point where Smith's mistakes (ints) aren't criticized the way Haskins dumpoffs were.


Ultimately the fallback will also ways be the players application, work ethic and attitude. Smith still picks up his share of criticism. But he works like a dog, is a proven leader, and above all else, win, or lose, none of us are able to question the work ethic behind that. 
 

Haskins is stuck with the label of being the opposite of the above until he is able to prove otherwise. The wins may have eventually come under Haskins, the running game may have progressed with Haskins under centre during the last month. Sadly the coaches lost trust in him before that was able to transpire.

 

For all we know, his lack of ability, or application, may have lingered through the season and we would be running on a more limited playbook with Haskins. Small margins. 
 

Bottom line, Rivera has remit to win this year. Plus, he needs to evaluate the full roster in the most appropriate way possible. You have to work on the premise his personnel changes throughout the season reflect that aim.

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@Thinking Skins I think it’s a simple as accuracy, especially on short throws. We couldn’t sustain drives, and Dwayne couldn’t consistently hit RBs in the flat. This lead to more 3rd and longs. 
 

Allen and Smith being automatic in those same throws has moved us from essentially worst/first in third down conversions, mostly by staying ahead of the chains. There is an element to the running game and Gibson improving here for sure, but to me. The accuracy difference is clear as day. 
 

Alex has thrown some back breaking INTs that have likely lost us games. But I’m more willing to put up with it when the offense is humming overall. 

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4 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

@Thinking Skins I think it’s a simple as accuracy, especially on short throws. We couldn’t sustain drives, and Dwayne couldn’t consistently hit RBs in the flat. This lead to more 3rd and longs. 
 

Allen and Smith being automatic in those same throws has moved us from essentially worst/first in third down conversions, mostly by staying ahead of the chains. There is an element to the running game and Gibson improving here for sure, but to me. The accuracy difference is clear as day. 
 

Alex has thrown some back breaking INTs that have likely lost us games. But I’m more willing to put up with it when the offense is humming overall. 

 

Mostly agree.

Simply, Haskins hasn't had the experience/game reps to fully lock down his mechanics to overcome his lack of knowledge of the playbook, and he hasn't put in the work/learned the offense enough to overcome his lack of experience/shaky footwork.

 

I'll say this, if this brow beating/benching ends up lighting a long term fire from Haskins and he ends up making a leap... Rivera is going to get a TON of rope with me. That would be one hell of a coaching/mentor job that doesnt happen often in the NFL.

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2 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

@Thinking Skins I think it’s a simple as accuracy, especially on short throws. We couldn’t sustain drives, and Dwayne couldn’t consistently hit RBs in the flat. This lead to more 3rd and longs. 

I will agree with the accuracy, to the point where I like Wilson because he seems to have both accuracy and arm strength. But my contention is that our offense looked a lot better against Baltimore. Its a small sample size, but in that game we had only 1 3 and out (on the third drive). Our first drive was 9 plays, then a fumble after 3 plays, the 3 and out, a nine play drive missed FG, a 10 play TD drive, a five play punt dtive, a 3 play FG drive, a 5 play punt drive, a 17 play downs drive (with the horrible sack), and a 4 play punt drive before the 4 play TD drive. 

 

I will also question about 'couldn't' hit RBs in the flat. I know he had a lot of bad balls there, but the question was always raised of why we weren't throwing to the RBs more and why we weren't using the RBs more in the passing game. 

 

Here's a look at JDM's targets and catches

[5/1, 0/0, 4/3, 8/7, 8/6, 6/6, 2/2, 14/9, 15/7, 4/3, 2/2]

Notice the increase as the year progressed, particularly the to pass heavy games against NY and Det. 

 

Here's a look at Gibson's targets and catches

[2/2, 2/1, 3/3, 5/4, 5/5, 5/4, 1/0, 3/3, 4/4, 2/1, 7/5]

 

So (apart from JDM in game 1) both have a good catch rate, so whether or not Haskins was having optimal ball placement they were sparringly used in the first three weeks. Since the Baltimore game there have been almost double digits targets in every game except dallas. 

 

Now, the correlation between the placement and YAC is something and maybe it led to more third and longs. But if that's not his thing he could do what he was doing with TMAC and try to hit the guys more over the middle because even then TMAC was leading the league in YAC. 

 

I'm just not giving up on Haskins yet. I still want Wilson in the draft but I wouldn't be mad if Haskins got another chance. 

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I can see Haskins getting another chance even if it's only because at the moment he has virtually no trade value, and the only way to improve that is for him to demonstrate that he's worth a shot. Right now he's probably more valuable to us than anyone else.

 

I don't know if he can fix his mechanics, but he can fix his work habits, assuming of course that those are a real issue. Continuity should definitely help him if he stays put; it's not as if he had a lot of game experience to draw upon before he came here, and his development was neglected last year and curtailed this year, compounding any issues he has with putting the time in himself.

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