FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Riggo#44]

Kinda quiet in here this morning.

[NickyJ]

 

Quiet as a backup QBs' agent. Just the way I like it.

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Kinda quiet in here this morning.

 

The next time one of our QBs struggles it'll be loud again. 

[Skinsinparadise]

One thing is clear as heck.  Kyle Allen and Alex Smith are both hands down better at moving the ball at this juncture of time with this offense than Dwayne.

 

Also I think our supporting cast is better than we expected.  Rivera makes a good point that Alex is helping the young receivers develop and there is certainly some value in that. 

 

 

 

[DJD2]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rivera makes a good point that Alex is helping the young receivers develop and there is certainly some value in that. 

 

This point really can't be overstated if one of the goals, if not the main goal, of this season is evaluating the talent on the roster.

[Malapropismic Depository]

What a great halftime speech, that Haskins gave the team yesterday, to cause the team to rebound in the 2nd half, and nearly pull off a huge comeback win.

[method man]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

One thing is clear as heck.  Kyle Allen and Alex Smith are both hands down better at moving the ball at this juncture of time with this offense than Dwayne.

 

Also I think our supporting cast is better than we expected.  Rivera makes a good point that Alex is helping the young receivers develop and there is certainly some value in that. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this chart. Clear data to show all the idiots who go "we can't draft a QB until we have an offensive line" that, yes, we do have at least a slightly below average to average offensive line, especially one that is good at pass blocking (sure, you should upgrade the left side if you can, but Burrow is clearly thriving with a worse OL)

[Conn]

To be fair, even Burrow was 0-13 passing on the 17 dropbacks where he was pressured yesterday. He was playing a good D but he’s struggling with pressure for sure. We do need to focus on the OL even if it isn’t as dire as some make it out to be (it’s still bad). 

[goskins10]

Haskins is sitting because of his attitude, not becasue of his performance. There is no way you bench a 2sr draft pick after so few games unless he is completely incompetent which he is not, or he has a really bad attitude which he apparently has. 

 

So people can argue about performance comparisons between him and any other QB and it really doesn't matter. That is NOT why he on his way out of Washington. He is on his way because the coaches have decided he does not have an attitude that fits the culture they are trying to build. Look for some others to find the door over the next year. 

 

Unless Haskins somehow shows Rivera he can change whatever behavior it was that got him benched, Haskins is gone - only question is when. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Haskins is sitting because of his attitude, not becasue of his performance. There is no way you bench a 2sr draft pick after so few games unless he is completely incompetent which he is not, or he has a really bad attitude which he apparently has. 

 

So people can argue about performance comparisons between him and any other QB and it really doesn't matter. That is NOT why he on his way out of Washington. He is on his way because the coaches have decided he does not have an attitude that fits the culture they are trying to build. Look for some others to find the door over the next year. 

 

Unless Haskins somehow shows Rivera he can change whatever behavior it was that got him benched, Haskins is gone - only question is when. 

 

I think Russell summarized it well recently saying they don't care for his work ethic/maturity but the kicker is they aren't totally sold on his talent either so they unlikely have the interest to baby sit this as a project.

 

There has been plenty of talk about him not putting in the time but to me I think one of the more revealing stories of late is the WP story about him showing up to late to meetings.  I know some coaches around the NFL have said that showing up late to meetings is a major red flag to them as for committment issues. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Skinsinparadise What I can't figure is Haskins has been benched for 6 weeks now.  He started the first 4 games, and they've played 5 since and had a bye.  

 

So, given that it's being openly discussed in the press about his work ethic, how the hell has he not fixed the problem?  Or has he just given up?  I don't know Rivera, but I'm pretty sure when he sat down with Dwayne at whatever point he did, he used small words and put the message in pretty black/white terms.  So, if Rivera said, "you're not getting it and you're not putting in the work, fix it." And the media has been saying the same thing, how the hell has he not fixed it? 

 

You can't control talent.  You can't, at least overnight, make yourself bigger, stronger or faster.  But you can control effort.  That's always in your control.  You can control how hard you work, how much you pay attention, what you do and how you do it.  All of these things are controllable.  So, if you have somebody who's been told bluntly what the problem is and he still hasn't fixed it, that shows me they are not willing/capable/self aware to actually understand the problem, and they're probably beyond hope.  

 

Unless they come around.  Which happens.  But often not without a change of scenery.  

[RichmondRedskin88]

If anything this again shows why Snyder needs to keep his hands away from our draft picks.  Clearly there were red flags there.  OSU people were even pointing them out and we ignored them.  Instead we wasted a high pick on a QB that can’t decide if he likes playing football.  This is worst than Shuler, Griffin or any high pick QB that bombed out because this isn’t the player just not able to make it.  This is a player not trying.   I can always respect a player who gets to the league and it just doesn’t work out.  Atleast they walked into the coliseum so to speak.  But Haskins straight up left town.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Skinsinparadise What I can't figure is Haskins has been benched for 6 weeks now.  He started the first 4 games, and they've played 5 since and had a bye.  

 

So, given that it's being openly discussed in the press about his work ethic, how the hell has he not fixed the problem?  Or has he just given up?  I don't know Rivera, but I'm pretty sure when he sat down with Dwayne at whatever point he did, he used small words and put the message in pretty black/white terms.  So, if Rivera said, "you're not getting it and you're not putting in the work, fix it." And the media has been saying the same thing, how the hell has he not fixed it? 

 

You can't control talent.  You can't, at least overnight, make yourself bigger, stronger or faster.  But you can control effort.  That's always in your control.  You can control how hard you work, how much you pay attention, what you do and how you do it.  All of these things are controllable.  So, if you have somebody who's been told bluntly what the problem is and he still hasn't fixed it, that shows me they are not willing/capable/self aware to actually understand the problem, and they're probably beyond hope.  

 

Unless they come around.  Which happens.  But often not without a change of scenery.  

 

My guess based on piecing different narratives together.

 

A.  Kyle Smith and the scouts in that building had some serious concerns about the player before the draft and also heard rumblings about his work ethic.  Work ethic stuff came up about Haskins via some of the draft geek type media so if we can read that stuff, I'd bet they knew that and more.

 

B.  Both Haskins limitations as a player and maturity/work ethic revealed itself last year.

 

C. Haskins had 2 good games at the end of last season.  Rivera took over this job and had some optimism that Haskins would perhaps develop if he put in the time to do so.

 

D.  Rivera and Kyle Smith got close.  Kyle is blunt as heck so I bet he revealed his concerns about Haskins to Rivera

 

E.  He, Scott Turner and Doug put Haskins on notice from the jump

 

F.  Haskins worked hard at least from a practice with receivers get in shape standpoint

 

G.  Haskins had an up and down camp.  Heard some reporters said all the off season hype about his work habits didn't seem to translate just yet as to how he looked in practice.  

 

H.  Haskins started slacking in practice.  They saw Allen and Smith start to outwork him there

 

I.  When the season started Haskins again wasn't studying as much as they'd like.  He'd check out early.  He was late to meetings

 

J.  His mistakes in games they imputed some to his lack of preperation

 

K.  The agent comment, the celebrating after losses, bragging about the Ravens game stats, etc.  that was the kicker.

 

And now the problem Haskins might have is they aren't in love with his talent to begin with.  If they thought the dude was a stud who just needs to mature they'd hang with him.  But I gather they think even if he put in the time he's not prime for success.  But the problem they have is Dan loved the dude.  And guys like Reddick and Shawn Spings who may have Dan's ear thinks Haskins walks on water.  Plus Dan I doubt wants to be shown up again as a fool since it is public that he overrided Kyle Smith, Jay and the scouts on Haskins. 

 

So Rivera has to consider the politics in all of this.  I grant to some of the few pro Haskins and anti-Rivera people on this thread that Rivera has been sloppy publicly in handling the politics of it.  But my point is hopefully in the future he won't have to deal with politics brought on by the owner.  Let's run this team like a normal one.   So Rivera likely came up with a phony excuse to why Haskins was benched I gather in part to please Dan.  And also likely played the card of keeping Haskins this season to please Dan. 

 

However, I don't think it is crazy for Rivera to play out that hand some especially if he thought that Haskins was turning a corner as to maturity.  Things aren't always so linear and binary.  Life is typically more fuzzy than that.   So the idea of lets give the dude a try to see if he turned the corner and the player actually looking like he turned the corner but then falling back to old habits to me seems like basic human nature as opposed to weird.

 

But I recall some of my old psychology courses where studies indicate that people tend to associate complex and grey reasons for their actions but conversely impute real simple binary actions for other people's actions.   Some are hammering Rivera for how he's handled this but to me the bumpy ride doesn't strike me odd at all.

[Skinsinparadise]

From Keim

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30330716/washington-ron-rivera-says-qb-alex-smith-proven-back

Washington is expected to closely monitor the college quarterbacks for possible long-term solutions. Rivera has said he's not writing off Haskins, either. But they would need to see a change in his approach -- and then see it translate on the field -- for him to fully re-enter the discussion.

[Thinking Skins]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

From Keim

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30330716/washington-ron-rivera-says-qb-alex-smith-proven-back

Washington is expected to closely monitor the college quarterbacks for possible long-term solutions. Rivera has said he's not writing off Haskins, either. But they would need to see a change in his approach -- and then see it translate on the field -- for him to fully re-enter the discussion.

SO that answers my question, or at least a part of it. I do wonder if we will be going after a QB like Stafford, Ryan or Prescott this offseason vs drafting one. Particularly if we're not able to draft one of the top two QBs and are left with a question of Lance vs Wilson vs Jones vs some of the others. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

56 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

From Keim

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30330716/washington-ron-rivera-says-qb-alex-smith-proven-back

Washington is expected to closely monitor the college quarterbacks for possible long-term solutions. Rivera has said he's not writing off Haskins, either. But they would need to see a change in his approach -- and then see it translate on the field -- for him to fully re-enter the discussion.

If we sign a FA Haskins has a chance.  A small chance.  If we draft it’s very small.  If it’s Lawrence or Fields he’s done. 

[Warhead36]

21 hours ago, DJD2 said:

 

This point really can't be overstated if one of the goals, if not the main goal, of this season is evaluating the talent on the roster.

Yep and this is what I said before as the main reason you play Smith.

 

Haskins was bad. Really really bad. So bad that you really had no idea how good anyone else on the roster was(besides McLaurin who is just a sure fire stud).

 

Now with Smith, I'm not saying he's THAT much better but he is better by enough that you can tell now that guys like Sims, Gibson, McKissic might be keepers. Maybe even Thomas at TE(don't like him as more than a backup though).

[FootballZombie]

I'd expect them to have an eye on draft QBs in the same manner they should be weighing the cost/benefit of all free agent QBs. I don't think this information tips their hand at all as to what direction they want to go. They are doing it for the same reason you evaluate other players when your sitting on the #2 pick and you are 200% sure your taking Young, due diligence.

 

Any competent organization should have a plan A, B, C and D at the QB position, otherwise you risk being caught running around like a Zombie without a head.

 

All options should be on the table and evaluated. No one knows what the future holds.

[mistertim]

If Haskins hasn't stepped up in the maturity and preparation department by now then it's over for him in Washington. We obviously don't know for sure, but it doesn't really sound like he has.

 

And I think that would sort of answer the question posed by @Voice_of_Reason as to how he hasn't fixed the problem if he was told pretty point blank what it was. Maybe he just doesn't have the inherent desire and doesn't have the maturity to get past being benched and use it as an opportunity to cultivate new habits (which absolutely can be learned and honed).

[CobraCommander]

 

We're going to keep Smith, Allen and draft a rookie QB. Smith will start next year, Rook will learn from him and Allen. Allen will remain here as a career backup, he has that Alex Moran quality to him. Smith will retire, Rook will be the GOAT making Tom Brady look like a plebe. 

 

I can dream.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

imputed

I'm just here to say that's a great use of the word imputed and I'm not sure if I've seen the word used on the board before.

 

And, btw, I agree with everything you wrote.  Except, it still doesn't answer my question (which was rhetorical), why the hell Haskins hasn't increased his effort level given he has to know that's part of the problem.  Only one person knows the answer to that.  

 

In the one instance in my career when I was really called on the carpet for something, which was when I was about Haskins' age, my reaction was to double my effort and prove the folks wrong who chastised me.  And I was successful in doing that.  I have to think Haskins is competitive enough to up his preparation game, however it hasn't seemed to materialized.  

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm just here to say that's a great use of the word imputed and I'm not sure if I've seen the word used on the board before.

 

And, btw, I agree with everything you wrote.  Except, it still doesn't answer my question (which was rhetorical), why the hell Haskins hasn't increased his effort level given he has to know that's part of the problem.  Only one person knows the answer to that.  

 

In the one instance in my career when I was really called on the carpet for something, which was when I was about Haskins' age, my reaction was to double my effort and prove the folks wrong who chastised me.  And I was successful in doing that.  I have to think Haskins is competitive enough to up his preparation game, however it hasn't seemed to materialized.  

 

now that you say that, this is just my start with my honeymoon of using the word imputed whenever I can 😀

 

I don't have the energy to recount the chronology and I've put this stuff on the thread before.  In short, if you buy into reports, Haskins has fits and starts with his work ethic.  It's not been a straight line.  He had a snap into gear phase last year too as for preperation according to some.  And heck an Ohio State reporter implied the same.

 

There was a story a week or so ago that Haskins is kicking it in gear again.  But for me, I can see Rivera's point of view where he said that work ethic is partly innate.  I think to an extent its  a personality issue or passion issue.  IMO Haskins either isn't a workaholic by nature or isn't that passionate about football.  I'd put money that he will have spells where he kicks into gear but then fall back again into his old habits unless something really triggers a major change in him.  Sort of like the fat dude who finally diets after having a heart attack. 

 

I've read enough books about atheltes over the years and a common denominator for the best of the best was typically a passion to be the best.  They didn't need to be embarassed in the media or to be benched to snap into working hard.

 

According to some of these reports, Haskins was told by both coaching staffs he needed to work harder and prepare more and they explained to him as to what they'd like to see.  Yet, he didn't do it or it didn't last.  Scott Turner said the Qb sets the tone for the building and that includes being the first to arrive and last to leave.  Doug said Haskins needs to stay in that building until he gets kicked out.  Haskins seemed to temporarily get it but then supposedly fell back until his old habits.

 

I just don't think its weird for a dude with a history for not working hard enough to have some temporarily bouts of snapping out of it, and then falling back into their old habits.  Isn't that behavior 101?  People who are overweight because they have bad eating habits get inspired for awhile and lose some pounds.  But eventually they can fall back into their old habits and gain weight again.  it happens all the time with people on so many fronts.  I am not the most organized person in the world but sometimes I'll snap into being really good for a spell but then ultimately I fall back into old patterns. 

 

My point is I'd guess Haskins might be working harder now.  But for Rivera, its sort of a been there and done that drill and he's not a believer anymore that Haskins can reform.  I assume his star players in Carolina didn't have poor work habits.  I don't think its an accident that he keeps touting those who do have great work habits.

 

I am guessing Haskins will have one more shot and play perhaps in the last 3 games of the season and unless he shines it will be adios. 

[KDawg]

48 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

And, btw, I agree with everything you wrote.  Except, it still doesn't answer my question (which was rhetorical), why the hell Haskins hasn't increased his effort level given he has to know that's part of the problem. 

 

We don't know he hasn't.  We don't know he has. And I'm glad we're not hearing a thing. 

 

Now, the chances that he has really turned it around aren't high, but sometimes this type of thing is exactly what a young man needs to wake him up. Especially if the trade market for him was fairly dry and he knows it.

 

I've said it before: I don't believe Haskins has what it takes to be a franchise QB, especially in DC... But I'm NEVER going to speak in absolutes when it comes to a young man. Lightbulbs can go off and things can click. 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am guessing Haskins will have one more shot and play perhaps in the last 3 games

Likewise, I think he may get the last 3 games or so. I really hope we are 2-11 by that point and he takes us through to 2-14.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am guessing Haskins will have one more shot and play perhaps in the last 3 games of the season and unless he shines it will be adios. 

I think it entirely depends on whether or not he earns it.  His draft position won't get it for him.  Unless he earns it, he won't get it. Hell, they might elevate Montez and play him if Haskins hasn't earned it.