FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Fat Stupid Loser]

30 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Not sure if it was in that article but I read today that Urban Meyer told Ron that Dwayne needed to be pushed to excel. WTF is that? Does that sound like the trait of a franchise QB?  

 

I have seen and heard enough and a few good halves or games won't change my opinion. I can't blame fans for being hopeful but to me this is a done deal.  

I said last season I would reserve judgment until game 6 this year. Unfortunately, to date, he is on the trajectory I suspected he would be. Hard to see a few more games changing that. We'll see. 

[Thinking Skins]

 

 

Another interesting graphic on QBs and the "pocket"

[DJHJR86]

I think another under-discussed aspect to Haskins was that he was a Snyder pick.  That leaves a bitter taste for a ton of fans.  And that is unfair to Haskins, but it's absolutely a red flag knowing Snyder's history.  

[ggarriso]

11 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I think another under-discussed aspect to Haskins was that he was a Snyder pick.  That leaves a bitter taste for a ton of fans.  And that is unfair to Haskins, but it's absolutely a red flag knowing Snyder's history.  

 

<~~ This - for a lot of fans drafting him was sort of the crown jewel of this organizations dysfunctional structure.  His piss poor attitude and historically bad results just compounded the issue, but make no mistake this is Dannys mess to own.

 

 

[NickyJ]

27 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I am absolutely focusing on throwing ability. I'm not focusing on total QB ability.

 

Allen's passing mechanics have improved. His accuracy has improved. I don't care if he can run, I don't care how long it took. He is a clear example of someone who was very poor at throwing the football showing drastic improvement. That is all. Nothing else matters.

 

Allen's legs play no part in that outside of throwing mechanics. Again we are arguing two different points. I'm not ignoring his rushing ability. It serves absolutely no import to my argument

 

 

The reason why Josh Allen has improved his throwing ability is because the Bills have been patient and given him time to grow with less pressure. Josh Allen has been under less pressure because he still won games while sucking at throwing. He won games while sucking at throwing because his ability to run won games.

 

Dwayne Haskins is on a short leash because he has 1 skill: His throwing. He currently sucks at his 1 skill, and it's making fans and his teammates that are out there trying to win and earn their paychecks lose patience. The UDFAs and street FAs are on the line here, they don't have the luxury of sitting around and waiting until Haskins starts to get it, neither do the players on contract years who want to pad their stats for the next big deal. The more Haskins loses, the more he's going to lose those players' support too. If he loses the players, Rivera will HAVE to bench Haskins. Josh Allen didn't have this problem because he won games. He won games because he can run. Allen's legs played every part in earning him the time and devotion he needed to improve his throwing mechanics.

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

 

 

28 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

That is what people keep interjecting but that is not what I am arguing.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

53 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You are ignoring it. It has everything to do with his development as a passer. I don’t know how you can’t see that.

 

His legs have him time. They allowed the team to win while allowing him time to learn as a passer. 
 

They also open up the pass because teams have to worry about the run. 
 

You are trying to isolate throwing ability from total QB ability... and you can’t. You’re trying to use the example of him as a passer but ignoring a big part of the reason he was able to evolve. 

 

Not only that but Allen's running made him productive even when he was throwing the ball terribly.  At this point in time Dwayne offers nothing productive.  

[El Mexican]

15 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

The more Haskins loses, the more he's going to lose those players' support too. If he loses the players, Rivera will HAVE to bench Haskins. 

 

Absolutely. That's why his selection was so controversial.

After Smith got injured our status as a rebuilding franchise became even clearer.

 

It's almost as if Snyder, Doug and Co. set Haskins up to fail with as little quality supporting cast as posible.

The D-line is an exception, of course. 

 

Miracles can happen, though.

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

You argument exists in a vacuum and that’s not the way any of this works.

 

A pocket passer has to have passing skills that allow him to work through the bumps  and still allow his team to be competitive. 
 

A dual threat type of QB is a guy that can use his legs to give him time to develop the throwing part of his game.

 

Haskins is a pocket guy. Allen and Lamar Jackson are not. 
 

You are absolutely ignoring this aspect. You are trying to make Buffalo’s patience with Allen about just his throwing ability. But a big part of why Allen was even considered the prospect that he is is because of his ability to run. 
 

Locker rooms, front offices, etc., have more patience with a quarterback that can learn while not hurting the team.

 

Pocket guys don’t have that same luxury. Developmental pocket guys are the guys that need to sit for a little while because it allows them to acquire the skills necessary to get on the field and set protections and see what the defense is trying to do, which gives them an edge. 
 

Guys who can run can develop on the job because they use their legs and keep things competitive and give their team a chance to win. 
 

Furthermore (not you, but others) have pointed to Haskins supporting cast. 
 

Look at what Allen worked with in 2018 when his completion % was abysmal...

 

 

Makes our group look outstanding. 
 

Back to your points: you are looking at throwing as the only measureable that matters in the context of development of a quarterback’s ability to throw. Your argument in fact shows that a quarterback can improve throwing ability. And that much is true.

 

But what you neglect is the context. And you can make anything without context fit exactly the narrative you’re trying to put forward.

 

Context matters. It always does.

[NickyJ]

12 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

  

41 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

That is what people keep interjecting but that is not what I am arguing.

 

That is a whole other argument.

 

 

The understanding I have of your argument is that because Josh Allen needed time to develop into a good passer who is now succeeding, Haskins just needs more time too. That may be true, but it's not something the team can reasonably wait for. After every loss, Rivera and the team have less and less time for Haskins to pull a 180. If Haskins hasn't taken major strides by the end of the season if not earlier, this will be the scene when Haskins is called into Rivera's office to tell him he's benched.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

9 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

 

 

The only argument I am putting forward is that a young QB can improve accuracy.

 

Josh Allen has. He is a good example of such. There are many others who have done the same beyond him.

 

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Your argument in fact shows that a quarterback can improve throwing ability. And that much is true.

 

That is the finish line for my argument. I’m not trying to prove anything beyond that, I don’t care about the Bills organization giving him time. I don’t care about his rushing ability. As I have said you are all arguing something different from me. I'm not saying he needs the time, will get the time, or should get the time to develop. What everyone else chooses to inject beyond my point is on them, but that is not my debate. I am not trying to champion someone else viewpoints, I have my own.

 

We clearly have an example of a poor passer, worse than Haskins, improving at throwing the ball. That’s it. That is all I care about.

 

If anyone else want to extrapolate “If Haskins was on the Bills” or how that effects his future this season, that is their take not mine. I’ve made no attempt to do so.

[alwaysberedskinstome]

Haskins is simply not good. Name the last quality NFL starting QB from ohio state. They run an offense that does not translate to the nfl and play against poor competition in the big ten. Lock was the better option last year but at least it appears that we have a shot at Trevor Lawrence.

[kingdaddy]

13 hours ago, skinbuck said:

he seems to be saying the right things today. color me optimistic. stay turnover free, make a few splash plays. show tangible improvement in mechanics and decision-making and accuracy. Let's go

If DH can stay turnover free then the defense improves just by that. Sometimes punting a team in is better for our defense and then our offense too. There's no overcoming turnovers in your own end. Lets see if we can get some kind of running game going this weekend, that not working isn't helping DH. We all know he's not ready to carry the team with his passing game but he has shown that he can make plays when given time and good field position.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

32 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

The only argument I am putting forward is that a young QB can improve accuracy.

 

 

 

Josh Allen has. He is a good example of such. There are many others who have done the same beyond him.

 

 

That is the finish line for my argument. I’m not trying to prove anything beyond that, I don’t care about the Bills organization giving him time. I don’t care about his rushing ability. As I have said you are all arguing something different from me. I'm not saying he needs the time, will get the time, or should get the time to develop. What everyone else chooses to inject beyond my point is on them, but that is not my debate. I am not trying to champion someone else viewpoints, I have my own.

 

 

We clearly have an example of a poor passer, worse than Haskins, improving at throwing the ball. That’s it. That is all I care about.

 

 

 

If anyone else want to extrapolate “If Haskins was on the Bills” or how that effects his future this season, that is their take not mine. I’ve made no attempt to do so.

 

Josh Allen improved as a passer. That’s your sole argument. If this was the Bills thread, it would be pertinent information. Since it isn’t, it’s irrelevant 

On another note this all goes away if he goes out and has a big game. Something like 300 yards, 3 TDs, and 1 pick. Tangible evidence of him properly transferring weight while throwing. Giving his receivers RAC opportunities. Just one game like that to see what the finished product might look like in a few years. He can struggle the next week but at least fans can see what the hype is about and maybe we’d be more willing to embrace him and his journey 

[DJHJR86]

If you truly believe in Haskins' potential, why don't you want him to be benched at some point this year?  Because if he has the tools to turn into a franchise quarterback, isn't sitting and learning the best route possible if he continues to play poorly?  

[SoCalSkins]

14 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

If you truly believe in Haskins' potential, why don't you want him to be benched at some point this year?  Because if he has the tools to turn into a franchise quarterback, isn't sitting and learning the best route possible if he continues to play poorly?  

You aren’t  paying attention. He wants him to sit in a wheelchair and play. So he can do both at the same time. That’s how he becomes the next Josh Allen. His plan is crystal clear! Read more carefully next time. Thanks!

[Stadium-Armory]

Not great timing for a developing QB looking to take a step forward. He's going to get an Ravens team looking to bounce back after getting handled by the Chiefs. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

15 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

If you truly believe in Haskins' potential, why don't you want him to be benched at some point this year?  Because if he has the tools to turn into a franchise quarterback, isn't sitting and learning the best route possible if he continues to play poorly?  

I've been one of Dwayne's biggest advocates but I'll admit he's rawer than I anticipated.

 

But with that being said, I don't want him benched. I'm not on board with Rivera in that aspect.

 

I think the kid needs to play in order to grow (or not).🤷‍♂️

 

PS: I still don't think they did him ANY favors in terms of what they surrounded with.

[GOATFrerotte]

2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

I think another under-discussed aspect to Haskins was that he was a Snyder pick.  That leaves a bitter taste for a ton of fans.  And that is unfair to Haskins, but it's absolutely a red flag knowing Snyder's history.  

And it happened during jay and Bruce’s tenure even if they weren’t responsible. One reason I’m not emotionally invested in him and more excited for Ron and his regime. He gets a blank slate and does not owe anyone from the previous regime anything. He gave Haskins his shot.

[Stadium-Armory]

3 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

And it happened during jay and Bruce’s tenure even if they weren’t responsible. One reason I’m not emotionally invested in him and more excited for Ron and his regime. He gets a blank slate and does not owe anyone from the previous regime anything. He gave Haskins his shot.

 

Yes but it would still be a wasted first round pick. A team with a potentially dominant young defensive line has a small window to win, ideally with a QB on a rookie deal. It will be a blow if Haskins doesn't pan out. If he doesn't - whether he's Snyder's pick or not - it may spell the end for seeing what this team can be with a competent QB and the D line in tact.

 

[GOATFrerotte]

2 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

 

Yes but it would still be a wasted first round pick. A team with a potentially dominant young defensive line has a small window to win, ideally with a QB on a rookie deal. It will be a blow if Haskins doesn't pan out. If he doesn't - whether he's Snyder's pick or not - it may spell the end for seeing what this team can be with a competent QB and the D line in tact.

 

Thats what sucks about this. The only reason we are having this conversation is because he was drafted so high. Any other qb would be benched and forced to wait for their next opportunity. Rypien just confirmed my belief that nfl qbs need to look better than Haskins has especially through 10 starts.

[Daniel.redskins]

I would take Rypien with his three picks any game over Haskins.  At least Rypien looks like a qb.  Haskins is a stiff statue who hesitates way too much.  

[GOATFrerotte]

2 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

I would take Rypien with his three picks any game over Haskins.  At least Rypien looks like a qb.  Haskins is a stiff statue who hesitates way too much.  

he made 5-6 passes in his first career start that I haven’t seen Haskins complete all season. And it’s not like Tim Patrick is Julio Jones. That’s all I want to see from Haskins against Baltimore even if he throws picks.

[ExoDus84]

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

I think another under-discussed aspect to Haskins was that he was a Snyder pick.  That leaves a bitter taste for a ton of fans.  And that is unfair to Haskins, but it's absolutely a red flag knowing Snyder's history.  

 

I hate Snyder as much as anyone, but I don't think fans dislike Haskins because he was picked by Snyder. I don't care if Bruce Allen personally bred Haskins in a lab, and watched him grow like John Hammond from JP. If he plays well, the fans will get behind him. He if doesn't, they won't.

 

Simple as that, really.

[Thinking Skins]