Good, Bad, and Ugly

[S.T.real,lights,out]

On Rambo.  One bad play does not a bad game make.  It seemed like a horrible play and he needs to get him down, but it also seemed like a blown coverage.  By him?  Someone else?

 

The defense overall performed pretty well... still hoping we don't find we've lost Cofield, Hatcher, and Baker all of who got nicked up yesterday in the second half.  Any injury news yet?

 

I agree. We gave up 1 big play all day. We should have never been in that situation if we could of held onto the ball and Helu decide not to take a play off.

[Gamebreaker]

lol, blaming this game on ST and not Griffin . . . wow

 

Are you serious? How are the Special Teams not at fault for this game? The directly allowed a TD to occur, and missed an easy extra point. Yes, I'm blaming the ST. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

What does all this Griffin didn't look comfortable talk mean? I didn't notice happy feet or him dancing in the pocket or looking at the pass rush instead of his progressions at the end of each snap count.

Now, you many be seeing something I'm not, but whay do you think he looked uncomfortable?

While it's definitely better than last season, he still causes issues by bailing out too early, missing DBS coming off the edge, and back pedaling. There were points where he would be sacked my edge rushers because he didn't just step up in the pocket. Fitzgerald did well by scampering for that 3rd down conversion by doing what? Stepping up in the pocket from edge pressure. RG3 sacks himself sometimes and you can't do that against demigods like Watt. Watching Russell Wilson last Thursday was just sad to me. His poise scrambling and escaping pressure is light years ahead. He may be on his way to being the best QB from that draft and it isn't really close

That one sack he took in the 2nd quarter on 3rd down took us out of FG range because he back pedaled 5-6 yards instead of just conceding defeat

He looks no where as bad as the really critical ppl are saying. He just looks middle of the road. That's not what I want to see year 3 considering the price paid

[Warhead36]

What's concerning to me is that he just doesn't look natural playing big league QB. In the read option he thrived, but I don't think he's wired to be a pocket passer. There are nuances to being a pro pocket passer that he just hasn't developed and he may never develop.

[MartinC]

lol, blaming this game on ST and not Griffin . . . wow

You can't be serious. We gave up 8 points in the kicking game in a game which was an 8 point game until late. Tack on two fumbles in the red zone and there's the game right there.

[Tay]

This was definitely a team loss, but I was encouraged about what I saw from RG3. Was it perfect? Not at all. But he is showing development as a pocket passer. He does still have a long way to go, but he was far more accurate than he was at any point last year.

 

For those saying all he did was check down, he was middle of the pack in the NFL(#14) in YPA. He averaged 9.6 YPA in the second half, which would place him at #3 during the 1st week of the season.

 

There are teams that are very successful throwing underneath, if that's what the defense is giving him. Tom Brady has been doing it for a while.  

 

The turnovers, penalties and sacks killed a lot of drives.

 

 

Having said all of that, he still has plenty of room for improvement. He needs to do a better job at realizing where the blitz is coming from, and get himself into plays where he has a hot to throw to if the pressure comes quickly. 

 

He also needs to do a better job of moving up in the pocket, and avoiding 15 yard sacks. 

 

This will all come with time, and it's part of the process. Lets just hopes he improves quickly, so that we can become more competitive this year. His potential is through the roof. Let him develop.

[Diehard Otis]

Good... RGIII looked pretty accurate and was able to hit short, medium, and his down field throws were on target.  Wish he were able to give Roberts a little bit more room on that one downfield heave.  Still not sure he was out.  Also, the run game looked pretty good and Helu and Morris made an effective 1, 2 punch.  Defense was very strong in the first half.

 

Bad:  Line protection.  Seemed like every blitz got someone through. Stop definding a 3rd and two pass play with defenders eight yards off the receiver.  You're conceding it.  Punt returns were pretty good too.  Roberts had a nice couple of returns.

 

Ugly punt and kick protection.  Two in one game!!! Ugh!!!  Also obviously ball security.  Not sure what happen with the RGIII stumble lost handoff, but that can't happen.  Likewise, for Paul. Those four plays were the game.  Houston otherwise really only had one play which looked like a blown coverage too.

 

Fix a few handles and this ship can be wrighted.

I agree.

 

RGIII played well.  But weren't you left with the feeling that we were just calling plays & not attacking this Defense?  My impression was that The Coaches would try this, then try that.  There was no real rhythm to the playcalling.  That was disappointing.

 

And speaking of blitzes, it seems that the book on The Skins is that a blitz will stymie this Offense.  That is troubling, because I can't recall a single instance that our Offense burned the Texans for sending the dogs yesterday.  So naturally,they kept doing it.  And I can't blame them for that.

 

And as for the Kicking Game, those two errors cost us the game.  Sure, if you overlook those two ****ups, Special Teams would have got a passing grade.  But that isn't possible.  

 

The Defense gives us a strong effort & the Kicking Game COSTS us 8.  You can't Win like that

 

(How's this for hyperbole?  I wanted Helu released for that piss-poor Punt Protection.  That play cost us the game.)

[Slateman]

You can't be serious. We gave up 8 points in the kicking game in a game which was an 8 point game until late. Tack on two fumbles in the red zone and there's the game right there.

We couldn't score. Griffin was an average QB at best. We would have had a better result with Cousins under center.

 

The fact that the Redskins held them to under 20 points proves that it was the offense. And Griffin is in charge of the offense. He didn't make plays. He didn't show like a franchise QB is supposed. If you had given him a blank jersey, we would not have been able to tell the difference between RGIII, Jason Campbell, or Mark Brunell.

[mistertim]

We couldn't score. Griffin was an average QB at best. We would have had a better result with Cousins under center.

 

It's hilarious when people say this stuff so unequivocally. Based on what? His stellar outings last season? Some preseason games against 2nd and 3rd stringers...pretty much going against the polar OPPOSITE of what RG3 faced as far as DL and pass rush?

[SkinInsite]

We couldn't score. Griffin was an average QB at best. We would have had a better result with Cousins under center.

 

The fact that the Redskins held them to under 20 points proves that it was the offense. And Griffin is in charge of the offense. He didn't make plays. He didn't show like a franchise QB is supposed. If you had given him a blank jersey, we would not have been able to tell the difference between RGIII, Jason Campbell, or Mark Brunell.

 

Of the 4 second half possessions Skins had, RG3 give them a chance to score on 3 of them. Two of them he deliver the ball right to the receivers hands.

[Brokenstriker]

The good:

All the mistakes (other than the OL) are coachable mistakes

- a missed block on an XP that was kicked low (does Way know how Kai likes his balls angled?)

- a missed block on a punt (did Way hold the ball too long)

 

 

you must have had a different view of that XP kick than I did ... it did not look low at all.  Watt or whoever blocked it was deep in the backfield and his hand was way the heck up there

 

you also must have had a different view of the blocked punt ... maybe the punter should have done something creative (Blue actually had to reach back to get the ball so maybe Way did try to let him blow past) but in any case ... that was 100% due to Helu blowing his assignment plain and simple ... pin that on Roy.  (footnote ... 3rd down backs who can't block are poor receivers if you plan on passing ... might has well put Grant in the backfield instead since the only good thing that will happen is the back goes out into a pattern)

[Thinking Skins]

you must have had a different view of that XP kick than I did ... it did not look low at all.  Watt or whoever blocked it was deep in the backfield and his hand was way the heck up there

 

you also must have had a different view of the blocked punt ... maybe the punter should have done something creative (Blue actually had to reach back to get the ball so maybe Way did try to let him blow past) but in any case ... that was 100% due to Helu blowing his assignment plain and simple ... pin that on Roy.  (footnote ... 3rd down backs who can't block are poor receivers if you plan on passing ... might has well

You may be right, I'm going off comments I've heard in the game thread. I'll go back and watch both these plays tonight, but thats what I heard. If you disagree, its cool. Either way, its coachable.

put Grant in the backfield instead since the only good thing that will happen is the back goes out into a pattern)

Honestly, that's not a bad idea. I'd like to see more of Grant getting the ball, but I don't think the problem was Griff connecting on short passes, so the third down back isn't an issue.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

It's hilarious when people say this stuff so unequivocally. Based on what? His stellar outings last season? Some preseason games against 2nd and 3rd stringers...pretty much going against the polar OPPOSITE of what RG3 faced as far as DL and pass rush?

Pretty much

Anybody that even mentions cousins at this point gets ignored by me

[Chachie]

  Wish he were able to give Roberts a little bit more room on that one downfield heave.  Still not sure he was out.  

 

 

 

I spoke about this play in another thread, but if you look at it again, Roberts was wide open in the middle of the field much earlier. I was screaming at Griffin to hit him then. Oh well.

 

(Also- I think Andre's foot was indeed just barely out of bounds.)

 

 

 

Bad and Ugly- Bacarri Rambo's angles. Still! Oy vey.

[Larry]

Helu missed his "block" on the blocked punt ... considering the size of the holes Morris and Helu ran through and that neither really broke a tackle or made someone whiff I think there's not enough good in Helu's equation and he probably ought to go in Bad or Ugly (I see you have ST blocking ... but that ought to be more specific ... not all the blocking sucked just some of it)

Admiring how our two RBs can finish the game with 6.5 and 11.5 yards/carry, and you can claim that neither of them really did much.

[Garcon More Wine]

What does all this Griffin didn't look comfortable talk mean?  I didn't notice happy feet or him dancing in the pocket or looking at the pass rush instead of his progressions at the end of each snap count.

 

Now, you many be seeing something I'm not, but whay do you think he looked uncomfortable?

 

maybe the world is "fluid"?  just didnt seem like he was at ease in the pocket.  in 2012 he was at ease the whole season, he just looked like he was not thinking as hard, decisions were a little quicker.  the holding on to the ball thing seems to me to be a byproduct of comfort.  because hes not used to surveying and reading as much its just taking a bit longer.

 

i fully expect him to get better at this as time goes on, but its a process.  hes got way too much talent to give up on him like a lot of people are ready to go.  

[Taco Bell]

The people "dismissive of the anti or critical RG3" posts seem to be using alot of generalized defensive arguments that contextually don't apply to RG3's current situation and many of the people who are bringing up good, yet specific, points.

 

1.  Anyone bringing up stats to defend RG3 are actually doing him a disservice, because contextually his past few year's stats bode poorly for him and how he's playing now.  Anyone using his stats to compare to other QB's stats from past years, such as Luck's or Wilson's, are only showing his ability in the primary read option offense, so no matter what percentage they are better/worse/etc., it means very little when the offense he's running now, and how he's CURRENTLY playing, is what most of these sensible people critical of RG3 are speaking about.  His 2012 stats mean nothing relative to how good he is compared to Luck or Wilson (or anyone) in a vacuum, right now.  Those guys are running their offense with command, disregarding stats entirely, all you had to do was watch these last 2 prime time games to see the difference between players running an offense instead of being a liability.

 

Even short term stats are futile to use in defense of RG3. Not that I needed to see the number, but on Numbers never Lie I heard that his yards per completion downfield was about 3.4/5 yards, which is obviously terrible when you compare it to watching the game.  So anyone speaking about his completion percentage is DEFINITELY offbase, while accuracy, I will give you, is slightly different.  Sure, he possesses the ability to throw accurately, but generally those were on the intentional dump off passes to the sidelines, I would assume most QBs in the NFL can throw those over and over.  The roberts' pass was poor, and there's no other way to say that.

 

Also, I will take INTs from QB's today over fumbles each and every time.  Andrew Luck being good for 1-2 picks a game is entirely different contextually than RG3 fumbles.  Throwing picks at the very least implies you are throwing the ball downfield and have the ability to at least try such things, while fumbles imply due diligence fundamentals as a QB are inconsistent.  You can't always prevent fumbles, but bobbing snaps is bad, really bad.  Also, INTs at least often occur down the field, so at the very least you are getting a 1/3 of a punt out of the deal. I know this is basic nonsense, but I feel like the people defending RG3 aren't using actual context in most arguments.

 

2. Anyone that implies "oh another person that wants cousins to start" to anyone who is critical of RG3. without having actually said that, are also just futile responses.  I have not once even mentioned kirk cousins in any recent RG3 post, and at the very least, has never implied ever that RG3 should be benched for anyone.  My timeline that I envision for RG3 and how I criticize him is based on the collision course to his next contract, so 1-2 years depending on when or if it gets done.  So, when I am "worried" about him getting better, the deadline isn't for next game and for cousins to start instead, it's for another 15-31 games.  So those responses can conclude for anyone that doesn't actually say that.

 

This also covers anyone who generalizes that people criticizing RG3 are putting ALL the blame on him.  No, again, he's the 4 premium pick player who turned himself into a media star after 1 year and doesn't have the ability to take all the blame, even though its merely due diligence to do so.  So, he's the one that's getting focused on, sorry that it's the case. I never implied that he was the only problem on this team, just like how many others critical of RG3 haven't, but get blamed for doing so. 

 

3.  Anyone who refutes obvious evidence of mistakes that someone say like, Jaws or coach Gruden, or anyone who might actually have credibility in grading QBs states, also misses the mark as quality defense of RG3.  That vid above of RG3 not stepping into the easy open pocket clearly shows a mistake.  But, some apply the blame or the "inevitability" of Watt getting to RG3 anyway as defense.  No, if RG3 takes 2-3 steps forward, a BASIC qb maneuver, 9/10 times Watt isn't getting there.  Watt could have made a nice change of momentum move there to have gotten the sack on that particular play IF rg3 steps up, but that isn't a BASIC move.   So, odds are, stepping up into the pocket is the easy answer to fix that particular play.  Context context context. 

 

4.  Anyone implying that our offense on sunday was "dink and dunk offense," is also bending reality.   It's an argument I've seen a few times here as if what RG3 was doing was "his choice" or "by design" or "our ideal gameplan." A dink and dunk offense is more what Brady or Brees do when they look downfield and then give the easy outlet pass that gets 4-8 yards or whatever per play since they are wide open due to respect down the field.   Dink and dunk implies inevitablity, or perpetual monotony, or annoyance, in how consistent it works.  Nothing we did was "dink and dunk" on sunday.  Our's were just the only thing that could actually get completed on a consistent basis and, clearly, not effective.

 

All I am saying is, people are critical of RG3 right now because he honestly deserves criticism, because he's clearly not playing well enough, and doesn't really seem to have that sense of urgency he needs with how badly everything is going, which further alarms people as well.

 

The people critical of RG3 definitely have good points, and I am just trying to defend some of their stances by showing holes in many of the counterarguments I've seen thrown their, or my, way.  

[grego]

 

 

All I am saying is, people are critical of RG3 right now because he honestly deserves criticism, because he's clearly not playing well enough, and doesn't really seem to have that sense of urgency he needs with how badly everything is going, which further alarms people as well.

 

 

 

 

i dont think anyone is saying griff played great, but i'm going to give him more than one game (one game vs the biggest defensive disruptive force in the league) in a new system before getting too critical. 

[darrelgreenie]

Lol.

I have yet to see anti-Griffin crowd do anything more then point out mistakes and leap to definitive conclusions based on those mistakes.

THAT IS NOT ANALYSIS THAT'S CHERRY PICKING/NIT-PICKING.

The first time anyone anti-Griffin weighs Griffin's good plays against his bad plays will be the first.

But then again IF they did that their negative opinion wouldn't hold up.

-Cheers

[Thekyle1591]

Now that everything has died down, here's what I thought about the game yesterday:

The good: The defense. Everything about the defense looked better. Run D was great. Pass D was awesome and they only gave up 10 points. The run blocking. It was very very good against a very very tough front 7.

The bad: Protection. Let me start by saying the protection issues were not on one man, as I actually thought Tyler Polumbus did a good job against Watt, and was only beat once (for the sack). The main issue was Shawn Lauvao and Chris Chester. Both guys allowed inside pressure pretty much all game, and while I though Shawn improved as the game went on, giving up 3 qb hits isn't good.

The ugly: Special teams. It was actually hard to put this on here, because besides 2 plays I thought the teams looked ALOT better. Like night and day better. Way looked great, Roberts was impressive and the coverage was outstanding. Cleaning up the blocked punt won't be hard and getting bad on track will be easy. The blocked PAT was all Watt. Nothing you can do there.

Turnovers. Again, not hard to clean up but they absolutely killed us. Without those fumbles we win easily.

NOTE: For as much crap as Rg3 got from this game, I thought he looked good. Looked a lot better 2nd half and looked more like 2012 Griff than 2013 Griff.

Conclusion: As much as it hurts to lose that one, I thought there was a lot of good from the game, namely dominant run blocking and a sharp rg3 who got the ball to his playmakers. The defense looked very very good too, and while the Texans are trash on offense I can't help but think the 2013 skins would've folded after the turnovers by the offense. I can already tell, this team is MUCH better than 2013.

Offensive MVP: Trent Williams- dominated Watt, Clowney. Best player on the skins, need I say more?

Defensive MVP: Hatcher/Robinson- couldn't pick one so I went with both. Hatcher was absolutely dominant. Great pickup. Robinson brings the speed and versatility this defense has lacked since Fletcher's 2011 season. Absolutely awesome.

BONUS: Tress Way. Sav who?

[DogofWar1]

I think this bears posting, from Keim on ESPN:

 

• I understand the desire by others to throw down the field. But keep in mind: In a game where the Redskins predominantly used a short passing, Houston end J.J. Watt had one sack, five quarterback hurries and a batted pass. Overall, Houston had three sacks and 14 hits on Griffin. Imagine the damage if the Redskins had opted for more longer throws. What didn't help was linebacker Brooks Reed doing a nice job of changing directions on bootlegs, messing up some plays.

 

I think this is relevant to the debate concerning how much RGIII checked down.  I don't think there is any question we checked down too conservatively in the first quarter, but beyond that, he threw farther down field.  Why didn't he throw farther?  Well, the bolded part is why.

When you're smacked on more than one quarter of plays, you get that ball out quicker.  If we had longer routes, both sacks and QB hits probably go higher.  Maybe we'd have a good high-risk high-reward play, but it's a huge risk.  If he's hit as the ball comes out, that increases the odds of an INT or bad throw.

 

So I'll reiterate the point that Griffin wasn't great, but he should not be viewed as bad; there was a lot going on that worked against him, and it's frankly a miracle he managed a 78% completion rate while being hit as much as he was.

[Thekyle1591]

Lol.

I have yet to see anti-Griffin crowd do anything more then point out mistakes and leap to definitive conclusions based on those mistakes.

THAT IS NOT ANALYSIS THAT'S CHERRY PICKING/NIT-PICKING.

The first time anyone anti-Griffin weighs Griffin's good plays against his bad plays will be the first.

But then again IF they did that their negative opinion wouldn't hold up.

-Cheers

What exactly are their criticisms with Griffin? Only one I can think of is blitz pick up. He completed the balls he needed too and made some very nice plays down the field. Sure he didn't go deep, but 1. You can't throw deep routes with 2 seconds before you get killed 2. The one time he did throw it, Garçon mistimed a jump on a throw that was right on the money.

Anyone blaming Griffin or saying he played awful are the ones who have no idea what is going on.

[TexasSkinsFan]

I find it ironic that you're giving up on RG3, but by the looks of your username and past posts, you are being more than patient with a WR who has been in this league almost 5 years, and you can count on one hand how many games he has produced. I have to agree with Rufus T. Firefly here when I say this has all the makings of an anti-RG3 agenda being pushed.

God gosh, trying to lurk here and if your going to post something to me please be accurate. Hank has been in the league since we drafted him in 2011, one year before Griffin

But since you want to insult Hank at the expense of Griffin you need to realize that Hank has been productive when he has been healthy, which we can not say of Griffin. Unless of course Griffin is already hurt.

[darrelgreenie]

....Hank has been productive when he has been healthy, which we can not say of Griffin...

Eh? 2012 didn't happen?

[Rufus T Firefly]

But since you want to insult Hank at the expense of Griffin you need to realize that Hank has been productive when he has been healthy, which we can not say of Griffin. Unless of course Griffin is already hurt.