Good, Bad, and Ugly

[darrelgreenie]

KDawg-

You beat me to it. We ran the boot action stuff the same way as Kyle and defenses have been playing our boot action the way u describe since McNabb.

I was surprised to see it the first time they ran it and hope never to see it again unless they tweak the play. Either block the edge or adjust the flat route receiver.

In an ideal world they scrap that entire concept against 34 defenses.

If Jay and McVay want run a play that puts the backside edge defender in a jam......I wonder if there is an entire offense built around that concept.....wait....I think it's coming to me.....read something.....zone something.....IF only there was a concept like that lol

[planter]

The Good: Morris and the "D" tho Houston "O" has been struggling for some time. We'll miss Cofield.

The Bad: O-line (We need more skill at this "non skill" position). Special teams.

The Ugly: How we lost - a few gaffes that cost us big. Our rep if we keep losing.

[Oregon Ducks Fan]

QB Index

• By Gregg Rosenthal
• Around The NFL Editor
• Published: Sept. 10, 2014 at 02:59 p.m.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000392566/article/qb-index-nick-foles-tony-romo-get-off-to-slow-starts

Slow starts

4. Robert Griffin III: Griffin wasn't poor throwing the ball against Houston. He just barely made an impact. 29 of his 37 throws were under ten yards, with the vast majority of those throws within five yards of the line of scrimmage. He held the ball too long often and reacted poorly to blitzes, which is probably why the Redskins tried to keep things simple. The team's only touchdown drive came from the running game. It wasn't a terrible performance, but it's not a good sign when Jay Gruden's offense turns DeSean Jackson and Pierrce Garcon into bores.

[Thekyle1591]

QB Index

• By Gregg Rosenthal
• Around The NFL Editor
• Published: Sept. 10, 2014 at 02:59 p.m.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000392566/article/qb-index-nick-foles-tony-romo-get-off-to-slow-starts

Slow starts

4. Robert Griffin III: Griffin wasn't poor throwing the ball against Houston. He just barely made an impact. 29 of his 37 throws were under ten yards, with the vast majority of those throws within five yards of the line of scrimmage. He held the ball too long often and reacted poorly to blitzes, which is probably why the Redskins tried to keep things simple. The team's only touchdown drive came from the running game. It wasn't a terrible performance, but it's not a good sign when Jay Gruden's offense turns DeSean Jackson and Pierrce Garcon into bores.

At this point, I have just stopped listening to the dudes at ESPN or bleacher report or whatever. It seems to me that they don't actually watch the games, and their "analysis" of players, such as that one, are almost entirely based on the outcome of the game, not the actual qb play.

[GreenMenace]

I see a lot of blaming the Oline ...... I watched the game and Robert was giving plenty of time for 2 step passes . All you need is 2 seconds no more then 3. You have guys that can be 20 yards at that point + time for throw . Rg3 needs to trust his WRs and use some anticipation. You cant just wait for a WR to be wide open ..... Its not college  and now people know he will be less likely to run .  Was the Oline bad  ? Yea at times  but there are plenty of teams with worse that do more . Hopefully it gets better ... well for you guys 

[darrelgreenie]

[darrelgreenie]

[GreenMenace]

those pics show that robert should of stepped up in the pocket ..... not run right where he could not get protection

[UK Skins]

I'm afraid I don't know what the Oregon Ducks are but man, what a great picture

[amm0409]

I haven't really heard anyone talk about D. Jax.  I Mean he dances around so much, why not just run straight up the field.  And was it at the end of the game where he didn't get out of bounds to stop the clock, or am I wrong?

[railcon56]

Both Qb's tonight are throwing nothing BUT short passes....Their receivers are breaking tackles tho.

[grego]

Both Qb's tonight are throwing nothing BUT short passes....Their receivers are breaking tackles tho.

I did notice in the third quarter flacco was like 17 for 21 (some very high paercentage) for 130 yards.

But they had scored something like 17 points.

Interesting, I thought.

[RandyHolt]

Alas, the tall boy argument arises again.  Our WR's are small. Why sugar coat it. Maybe Roberts is our best at break tackle but he is only a 3. Not one is more than 6 foot and maybe none are actually. But even Garcon a total stud, doesn't seem to break many tackles. Moss DeSean Grant and Aldrick maybe add up to 100 BT. Truth be told, the jury is out on Grant, but that is likely not his game. He is a more a junior Henry Ellard.

 

Looking back at the Texans game, they were in a bend don't break. They looked at our team, saw our WR's, and said lets take the top off.

 

Kind of like we did all those years under Lynn, Blache etc, only blindly regardless of our opponent. The difference is that the Texans could actually get pressure rushing 4. Heck rushing 1, Watt. Anyways, teams would take what we gave them all game long, which was basically 9 yards on first down, over and over.

 

Gruden didn't take those 9 yards. Maybe he wanted to get Griffin some work so dialed up short passes vs the run. Only, our WR's didn't do squat for YAC. I will exclude "Hands" Paul since he is a TE. WR only. YAC.... yack is right.

[Saeth29]

 

 

This picture upsets me.  Griffin is at the top of his drop, maybe even already set, and he isn't pulling the trigger.   He has a guy running to open space against a zone defense, and he won't throw it.

 

Instead he breaks from the pocket because "he's not open yet".  This is the trust factor that Gruden is talking about.  

 

We won't win many games if this continues.  

[skinny21]

This picture upsets me. Griffin is at the top of his drop, maybe even already set, and he isn't pulling the trigger. He has a guy running to open space against a zone defense, and he won't throw it.

Instead he breaks from the pocket because "he's not open yet". This is the trust factor that Gruden is talking about.

We won't win many games if this continues.

Shouldn't upset you (regarding Griffin). He has to step into his throw and guess who was about to be shoved into him if he steps up? Be upset at Polumbus for his JV blocking sled imitation.

With all that said, I totally agree that in general Griffin needs to improve his timing/anticipation - hit the top of his drop and either throw immediately or hitch step and find the next read. Of course I'm sure his oline isn't helping his growth in that respect, but still. It's why I advocate some hurry up - so Griffin doesn't overthink things (hesitate) and just fires away.

[igglesfan]

I think that what happened last week is Crennel kept guessing right every time we chose to roll RGIII out.  RGIII would come around the corner right into the face of a blitzer.  They schemed it perfectly and got lucky on top of it.

 

 

I don't think it was a guess at all. I think it was an automatic backside edge pressure (within certain parameters) every time the outside OLB read outside zone away. I also think they worked on aiming points on the rush so as to sniff out reverses and outside zones. Our offense looked similar to what it was all of last year without the read-option stuff. 

 

Most definitely not a guess, Gruden pretty much got "schooled" by Crennel

[darrelgreenie]

This picture upsets me.  Griffin is at the top of his drop, maybe even already set, and he isn't pulling the trigger.   He has a guy running to open space against a zone defense, and he won't throw it.

 

Instead he breaks from the pocket because "he's not open yet". 

We're seeing something different then. If Griffin pulls the trigger at the top of his drop where do you want him to throw it?

At the top of Griffin's drop I see Roberts coming off a jam/reroute, I see a MLB doing a flat foot read and a DB also on reading the QB in the route path of Roberts.

Imo if Griffin throws the ball to Roberts its either broken-up, intercepted or leads him directly into a big hit.

Roberts only gets 'wide' open when Griffin scrambles and Roberts take his route vertical.

[MartinC]

Both Qb's tonight are throwing nothing BUT short passes....Their receivers are breaking tackles tho.

 

They showed a stat on Flacco just before the half and that point he had thrown one pass over 10 yards. 

[railcon56]

They showed a stat on Flacco just before the half and that point he had thrown one pass over 10 yards. 

 Rothlisberger threw mostly short passes too.... get the ball out of your hands.....it's not just Rg3 ....

[Voice_of_Reason]

This picture upsets me.  Griffin is at the top of his drop, maybe even already set, and he isn't pulling the trigger.   He has a guy running to open space against a zone defense, and he won't throw it.

 

Instead he breaks from the pocket because "he's not open yet".  This is the trust factor that Gruden is talking about.  

 

We won't win many games if this continues.  

By my count, there are only 7 Texan defenders in that picture, so I have no idea where the other 4 are, which makes it pretty difficult to figure out who's open.

 

I also can't tell where the primary read is from this picture, if it was Roberts, or if it was somewhere else.  Just because a guy is breaking free doesn't mean that the QB is looking at that guy at that moment.

 

So, based on this picture, I personally can't make any judgement.  IF there were no other defenders in the area, and IF Roberts was the read when he was breaking free, then it's possible that a floated pass leading Roberts to the open field might have worked, if the pass was over the defender between Roberts and Griffin. (See what I did there?)

 

Position does mean everything in the NFL, and it's possible that Griffin could have been late.  It's also possible that the design of the play didn't have Griffin's eyes at that point, or that there was something in his progression that caused him not to throw the ball.

 

Dunno based on that image. 

They showed a stat on Flacco just before the half and that point he had thrown one pass over 10 yards. 

With both of those defenses, you've GOT to get the ball out quick most of the time, or else you're going to be in trouble.

 

It's a lot like rope-a-dope.  Just run and complete short stuff all day long, until you get an opportunity to hit the big one.

 

I think you're going to see a lot of QBs throw a lot of short stuff all season. Griffin included.

 

I have been saying for ages that I would love for them to roll the pocket left, and throw against the grain a little bit.  But they don't seem to want to do that.  

 

And I'm violently opposed to a rollout to the right if they don't block the LB on that side.  I don't want to see that ever again. 

[darrelgreenie]

[SkinsFTW]

The only stats I needed to see were the one that said RG3's average pass was in the air for 3 yards and the one that RG3 on average held the ball longer than 30 other QB's at something like 2.9 seconds a pass.

 

It pretty much says that RG3 took forever even when he was dumping the ball off 90% of the time. No wonder Gruden isn't trying to go downfield.

[darrelgreenie]

The only stats I needed to see were the one that said RG3's average pass was in the air for 3 yards and the one that RG3 on average held the ball longer than 30 other QB's at something like 2.9 seconds a pass.
 
It pretty much says that RG3 took forever even when he was dumping the ball off 90% of the time. No wonder Gruden isn't trying to go downfield.

Lol, sometimes the conclusions people leap to from stats betrays their misunderstanding and false assumptions.
Sometimes it these post read like people have no clue what they are talking about.
 
First of all "air yards" tells you the TYPE of passing game not quality unless you are ready to make the same silly conclusion you're forming about Griffin based on his 'air yards' numbers as you are for: Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Jay Cutler.
 
You must not have PFF or don't know how to read their stats properly. First of all his time to ATTEMPT was 2.79s.
The time to THROW of 2.93 includes sacks and scrambles.
That means the Griffin CREATED time.
20 of his passes were thrown in under 2.5s.
But to make sense of the stat you also have to look at Pressure %.
The media talks about how bad the Patriots OL looked and how much pressure Brady was under.
BUT Griffin was pressured on 54% of his snaps compared to Brady's 41%.
So if you don't understand that means that HALF the time Griffin dropped back he was under pressure.
And UNLIKE Brady's 33% comp and 44% accuracy while under pressure
Griffin was 63% comp and 80%.
That means Griffin played BETTER then BRADY when under pressure last game.
Of the 22 pressure only 3 became sacks that means only 14% which was 11th best in NFL at avoiding sacks.
 
 
Sometimes reading these complaints about Griffin smh.

[SkinsFTW]

My point was that if youre throwing 30 passes for 0-9 yards then you should definitely get rid of it under 2.5 seconds on average. To have among the worst in that stat while only attempting a 10+ yard pass 4-5 times in 40 attempts obviously means that you need to start doing it faster. The OL pressure % is actually based on the fact that the ball needs to come out. If you're getting pressured on 3 yard dump offs then maybe get rid of it faster. He could stand back there for 5 seconds every snap and have a 100% pressure but it doesn't mean that it's the OL's fault and if he then completes a 3 yard dumpoff it doesn't make him better than Brady either. Manning on the other hand take a couple steps and the ball is out even if its a 20 yarder, he must really have a great OL right?

 

I'm not saying that he sucks but at some point he's going to have to start making the decision faster but at least he's accurate and hasn't put the ball on the ground or thrown any INT's.

[Burgold]

My point was that if youre throwing 30 passes for 0-9 yards then you should definitely get rid of it under 2.5 seconds on average. To have among the worst in that stat while only attempting a 10+ yard pass 4-5 times in 40 attempts obviously means that you need to start doing it faster. The OL pressure % is actually based on the fact that the ball needs to come out. If you're getting pressured on 3 yard dump offs then maybe get rid of it faster. He could stand back there for 5 seconds every snap and have a 100% pressure but it doesn't mean that it's the OL's fault and if he then completes a 3 yard dumpoff it doesn't make him better than Brady either. Manning on the other hand take a couple steps and the ball is out even if its a 20 yarder, he must really have a great OL right?

 

I'm not saying that he sucks but at some point he's going to have to start making the decision faster but at least he's accurate and hasn't put the ball on the ground or thrown any INT's.

But again, that time is deceptive.  They're not measuring how long he's in the pocket.  If he dodges the pass rush and steps up and out because the pocket collapses it makes the time longer in gross terms, but doesn't mean he's holding it and being indecisive. It could mean the opposite that he escaped a jailbreak by being very decisive and made a positive play out of a disaster.