NoCalMike Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Everyone is right about Doctson, that is the problem. Yes, he has established himself as a capable WR on an NFL roster, but the fact still remains he wasn't drafted to be capable, he was drafted to be great. He has made some strides this season when given the chance, I think everyone will admit that, but the play in question where he gets beat in the middle, is completely on him and it is fundamentals 101 to make that cut, hard inside and beat the defender to the ball. That ball was there for a #1 WR to go make a play on and instead he allowed himself to get bodied off the ball because of the bad route running. This is something you might expect a rookie to do in the first month of the season, but in a December game when there are playoff implications on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, goskins10 said: You have done nothing but make up your own narrative in the entire comment. I never said he worked harder than anyone else. I never said he was perfect. I never said he is a game breaking/changing receiver. I also never said he should not have made that play. All totally made up by you. What I did say and stand by, is that all WRs make mistakes and he made one there. I also said he has worked his ass off - notice no comparison to other players. Also that he has shown improvement in all areas - which have been well documented by the coaches and his teammates. He as made some key blocks on some really big plays. He has made steady improvement both in his route running and blocking. Both are clearly evident to anyone with an open mind and actually paying attention. We will never know how good he can be until they get someone that can throw him the ball. In his short time, Colt actually got him involved more than anyone. Hard to really judge any receiver in this climate as of late.... But I'll go out on a limb and say he probably still sucks (and cares.... But mostly sucks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, skinny21 said: While I’d put money on it not happening... I would think finishing the season with three consecutive games with good plays and steady production ought to alter the perspective on him. Three games dont erase everything that came before it. lol Not unless he goes off Amari Cooper-style every week. If he were really distinguishing himself on film and they thought he was anything special, they would go into games trying to get him the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said: I don't know why you're hardcore defending the guy who got a stupid penalty yesterday and then didn't fight for the ball. That's my narrative, please try to stay on point here. I am defending against people trashing all over a guy with exaggerations. And we already established that the penalty was garbage. another player tried to physically harm him and he reacted. Most would have done the same thing. I was being sincere about staying on point as you keep changing my words to fit your narrative. It's clear you wanted to be a smart ass. If that's where you want to go then there is no reason to continue. It just proves you have no real argument here other than you just want to complain about a guy without recognizing areas that he has improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, goskins10 said: I am defending against people trashing all over a guy with exaggerations. And we already established that the penalty was garbage. another player tried to physically harm him and he reacted. Most would have done the same thing. I was being sincere about staying on point as you keep changing my words to fit your narrative. It's clear you wanted to be a smart ass. If that's where you want to go then there is no reason to continue. It just proves you have no real argument here other than you just want to complain about a guy without recognizing areas that he has improved. We can agree that the penalty was garbage, doesn't change the fact that it happened. He's improved in blocking. So. What. I don't see it, I don't see him becoming a great receiver, a great player. He's had some good moments but let's also stop pretending that he hasn't had a QB to throw him the ball. Cousins somehow threw for 4,000 yards last year, 502 of that was to Doctson. 35 catches on 78 targets, that is not good. He's up to 59.1% this year, that ranks him 157th across all pass catchers in the entire league. He will, somehow, end up with more yards than last year, barring a catastrophe. Is that me being a smartass? Or is that me pointing out to you that, despite improvements (hello, I'm acknowledging the areas you're talking about, improved route running and blocking) you like to keep bringing up, he's still not that good? Pick any measure you want, Josh Doctson, at this moment is not a great wide receiver. Agree or disagree? I'm not saying he can't get better, he certainly can. I just don't think he's going to be the #1 we picked him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just a heads up, Docston is in concussion protocol according to Jay about 30 minutes ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 16 hours ago, goskins10 said: As @ILikeBilly stated, there was good reason for Doctson to do what he did. They talked about it on the radio (including Cooley) that it was a garbage call. The guy looked like he was trying to hurt Doctson. So yea, he may have been the one caught,, but does not mean he wasn't justified. Yeah, I have to admit it was such a ticky-tack garbage call. I know having basically your whole offense as backups there will be a lot of penalty calls, but those refs yesterday were giving me a headache on just about everything we did. I would have been really mad if we were just a TD behind, but being 24 points behind... a hell, screw 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, BleedBNG said: Yeah, I have to admit it was such a ticky-tack garbage call. I know having basically your whole offense as backups there will be a lot of penalty calls, but those refs yesterday were giving me a headache on just about everything we did. I would have been really mad if we were just a TD behind, but being 24 points behind... a hell, screw 'em. Yeah, it felt like the refs were piling on. The flags probably mostly deserved to be thrown, but there were some where the infraction clearly didn't impact the play and the Redskins were so bad yesterday that you'd think a modicum of mercy would have been warranted. Instead, the refs eagerly heaped salt all over the open wounds. 3 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said: I don't see it, I don't see him becoming a great receiver, a great player. He's had some good moments but let's also stop pretending that he hasn't had a QB to throw him the ball. Cousins somehow threw for 4,000 yards last year, 502 of that was to Doctson. 35 catches on 78 targets, that is not good. He's up to 59.1% this year, that ranks him 157th across all pass catchers in the entire league. He will, somehow, end up with more yards than last year, barring a catastrophe. If Doctson's catch rate is 59.1%, he may be ahead of the game. After all, he's our 50/50 ball catcher. That means he's plus nine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 The officials have taken over the game, every game you watch has a flag every other play. It's getting really annoying. As for Doctson I was one of his last defenders, hoping like many WRs he just took a few years. But it should be obvious by now this guy will never be more than a guy who bounces around the league and never really has an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 21 hours ago, justice98 said: Three games dont erase everything that came before it. lol Not unless he goes off Amari Cooper-style every week. If he were really distinguishing himself on film and they thought he was anything special, they would go into games trying to get him the ball. do you trust any of our QBs to have the ability or mindset to do something like that? I don't. Smith wasn't going to take the risk and all the others, when they try are more likely to give it to the other team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 On 12/10/2018 at 10:17 AM, justice98 said: Three games dont erase everything that came before it. lol Not unless he goes off Amari Cooper-style every week. If he were really distinguishing himself on film and they thought he was anything special, they would go into games trying to get him the ball. What came before it? Him not being thrown to? Alex hardly ever threw to our WRs, especially outside guys. Colt came in and started taking more chances and Doctson started getting more looks. Then Colt got hurt and we go to Sanchez, would suck even if he had Jerry Rice, Megatron, and Julio as his primary receivers, and then to Josh Johnson, who hadn't taken a single NFL in-game snap in 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/10/2018 at 9:17 AM, justice98 said: Three games dont erase everything that came before it. lol Not unless he goes off Amari Cooper-style every week. Obviously it’s not about erasing everything that came before, it’s about improvement and building on what came before. His ceiling looks like ‘very good #2 receiver’, though I think he’s more likely to make it to ‘decent #2 receiver’. Would like to see him play opposite a good #1 with a good qb, but that almost certainly ain’t happening here. ☹️ Moot point most likely with the concussion issue, but personally, if he came out and got some YAC, caught the ball well, ran some crisp routes, got some separation, had a 100 yd game or two... I’d think that would affect one’s perception. Apparently not yours, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Cooley talked recently about Doctson being the most improved player on the team and would be even better if he had good QB play this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 The Death of Expectations aka how 1st Round Picks learn to stop worrying & develop into solid contributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 On 12/11/2018 at 8:05 PM, Skinsinparadise said: Cooley talked recently about Doctson being the most improved player on the team and would be even better if he had good QB play this year. I think spaceman spiff nailed it with the stats of doctson only catching the ball 35 times on nearly 80 targets last year with Kirk..than Darrell Green fan finished off strong with it being obvious him being one of those guys that just bounces around the league for the next few years...ya know me, I'm a sucker for positive quotes but I'm standing firm he's a bust and we got screwed in the wr department in the draft..again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Maybe he cares more with McLaurin and Harmon in the room now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 12/10/2018 at 6:01 AM, goskins10 said: Yea, because every player is perfect. But thanks for confirming there is nothing he can do to make some of you happy. Kid works his ass off. Continues to get better after being injured his first full season and not having QBs that match his skill set. But yet he keeps working, gutting it out, including greatly improving his blocking - leading to him making key blocks on several big plays. He even modified his own shoe after an injury so he could keep playing. But instead of acknowledging that, all some of you want to do is nit-pick him and whine about every little thing. I had forgotten about this thread but i do get amused at posts like this. Josh Doctson was a #1 draft pick with amazing potential, players like that are expected to be major contributors. Obviously he has not come close to living up to expectations and he is running out of time. Why any poster would not understand why fans are being critical of him as he enters year 4 is pretty amazing to me. He hasn't done anything and he deserves every bit of the criticism. Especially when his play at times shows a lack of heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 4/29/2019 at 5:09 AM, Darrell Green Fan said: I had forgotten about this thread but i do get amused at posts like this. Josh Doctson was a #1 draft pick with amazing potential, players like that are expected to be major contributors. Obviously he has not come close to living up to expectations and he is running out of time. Why any poster would not understand why fans are being critical of him as he enters year 4 is pretty amazing to me. He hasn't done anything and he deserves every bit of the criticism. Especially when his play at times shows a lack of heart. I am glad you brought this up. It shows people like yourself still do not get it. There are two different things here. One is his production, which is fair. He has not produced. And no where is my comment did I suggest he did or suggest that being critical of his production is a problem. I will ignore the fact tat he has yet to have a QB that will throw to him outside Colt and his numbers went up. But let's just put that aside and say his lack of production is 100% on him. Lets say his game just does not translate to the NFL - still possible and honestly looking probable. The problem is, and the point of the post is that for some reason fans like yourself cannot focus on just data and results. There has to be something personal about it. Complaining about his heart and commitment is off base. His teammates and coaches say the exact opposite. Chris Cooley said one time very early on he thought that was a problem then recanted saying he misjudged Doctson. But those that didn't like the pick have decided to make their own minds up. "Just work harder!" is the refrain. If all it took was hard work there would be a lot more great players. Lack of production does not mean he is not trying or working as hard as he can. He is a fairly shy guy so he is not going to be overly demonstrative. In fact, with his lack of production, should he be whopping it up for each catch like he just won the Superbowl? People trash WRs on other teams for being overly demonstrative and then when a guy doesn't jump around like a lunatic he has no heart. I have implored people to look at his story of how he got to be a 1st rd pick - and make no mistake had the Redskins not taken him in the 1st someone else was. This is not a kid with a lack of heart or dedication. It is more than fair to be critical of his lack of production. However, I will continue to push back against questioning his heart and desire. His game just may not translate. But to question his heart and desire as the reason is again way off base. It's predetermined narrative without basis in fact if you are to believe his teammates and coaches who should know and if you know his entire story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Tick tock tick tock, it's time to sign that 5th year option. Or, not. Quote If another teams believes they can maximize Doctson’s skill-set in their offense, it may behoove the Redskins to at least engage in trade talks and see if a team may be willing to give up a pick for the struggling receiver. Doctson still has his 5th year option, which would need to be picked up by his new team in early May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 I was on board with the Doctson pick, kid had game film that definitely warranted a 1st round grade. Being a diehard ND fan, Fuller's success is no shock to me (although injuries have hurt him). These 2 players are forever linked given the 1 spot swap with Houston. Plus, we were looking to replace Djax and Garcon, so either player could have been drafted and that may have been the thought. With that said, Fuller is the better player. Doctson has not showed 1st round potential in a single game, Fuller has shown to be a game changer from time to time. I would be happy with a 3rd in return for him. I hope he does well but to pick up a 5th year option for that kind of money does not make sense based on his injury history and development up to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 If I recall the bust rate for first rounders is give or take 40% and its much higher or so it seems for receivers of late. There have been a lot of outright bust first round receivers. I don't put Doctson in that category. He has his moments. Right now IMO, he's played like a #3. Receiver is the slowest position typically for a player to develop. I am giving Doctson this season to see if he emerges and if its same old same old, he's a dude worth keeping on the field albeit in that case he didn't develop to being a #1 or arguably a #2 either. He played with a bit more attitude last year and developed into a good blocker. He didn't have the best QB play so I'll give him another pass. But this season is his last stand for me. Having said that I've learned to appreciate Pierre Garcon more now that he's gone. He plays with fire and is feisty and can beat press coverage and make plays. I know its odd to say this about a 6th rounder (some had him projected as a 2nd-3rd rounder). Brugler had him rated as the 6th best receiver in the draft. Harmon to me displays some traits i'd love to see more in Doctson. it might not translate from to college to the pros for Harmon -- like I said there is a high bust rate with receivers. But if Harmon plays like he did in college and his game translates, I think he ultimately has a shot to beat Doctson as the X receiver over time. At the very least it should be fun to see the competition for the starting spot. I'd expect Doctson to be the starter but Harmon over time might usurp him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 33 minutes ago, Bonez3 said: I was on board with the Doctson pick, kid had game film that definitely warranted a 1st round grade. Being a diehard ND fan, Fuller's success is no shock to me (although injuries have hurt him). These 2 players are forever linked given the 1 spot swap with Houston. Plus, we were looking to replace Djax and Garcon, so either player could have been drafted and that may have been the thought. With that said, Fuller is the better player. Doctson has not showed 1st round potential in a single game, Fuller has shown to be a game changer from time to time. I would be happy with a 3rd in return for him. I hope he does well but to pick up a 5th year option for that kind of money does not make sense based on his injury history and development up to this point. I wanted Treadwell and they went back to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 I think you always do the 5th year just in case. If he has a big year you know we're not giving him a long term deal so having that 5th year is helpful for a team looking for answers at WR. If we find that our new guys coming in along with P Rich and Quinn are formidable and Josh has the same Josh type year then you just cut him. I don't see a downside to using this option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: I think you always do the 5th year just in case. If he has a big year you know we're not giving him a long term deal so having that 5th year is helpful for a team looking for answers at WR. If we find that our new guys coming in along with P Rich and Quinn are formidable and Josh has the same Josh type year then you just cut him. I don't see a downside to using this option. The dead money?? It's a 10million dollar option and I would think all goes to dead money. Either you pay him or you play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, Bonez3 said: The dead money?? It's a 10million dollar option and I would think all goes to dead money. Either you pay him or you play him. No, you cut him before the league year starts, its the same thing we did with RG3, we didn't incur any cap hit for him, there's no risk. Edit. He could get hurt this year so there is some risk, if he cant pass a physical in March then we get hit for that cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.