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Does Doctson even care?

petey hodge

By petey hodge
in The Stadium

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I would love if that somehow proved to be wrong, but I don't really see it. That being said, I think Keenum will be the starter day 1 this year and he's a little bit more of an off schedule type QB so perhaps he'll take more chances and Doctson will get a decent amount of balls thrown his way. I think with Haskins in as a rookie, Doctson won't see much as they'll probably keep it very basic and conservative with plenty of short passes to work DH's confidence and familiarity with the offense. 

 

Jay wasn't shy at expressing that Kirk in his book was too conservative. If you recall Kirk saying if he did would Jay wanted he'd throw a ton of interceptions and Jay quipped back that yeah but he'd have like 60 TDs or something like that.  

 

I recall in the off season the talk about Alex would throw more contested balls to Doctson.  I thought that was funny though considering some considered Alex the most conservative Qb in the NFL.  Football Outsiders coined their own stat for check downs -- "the Alex".  I recall some beat guys were saying that Jay was tearing his hair out about all the plays Alex was leaving on the field last year.

 

Supposedly, Jay loves Colt in part because he's a gunslinger type.  Personally I like Kirk and Alex over Colt and its not close.   But I have to concede that i am not sure either guy played exactly as aggressive as Jay would like.  His plays (like really any passing play) have progressions to them.  Bullock for the Athletic has done a nice job breaking down some of Jay's staple plays and much of them have progressions that include going deep -- for example a play called Philadelphia has the option of going deep with the go route, you got a dig route, you got a check down play in the flat.   The QB has the option to be aggressive or not aggressive.   

 

If you judge Doctson based on PFF stats and Warren Sharp's stats -- Doctson is a really good possession receiver in short distances but is a horrible receiver going deep.   Last season with Richardson out for most of the season -- Doctson seemed to take over the deep threat role.  And at least judging by PFF measures, the dude is horrific with the deep ball.  But if you use him sort of like the way we used to use Garcon he should be decent.  

 

One of Doctson's best games happened with Colt last year versus Dallas.  I am not a Colt guy.  Not really a Keenum guy either.  But both might be better for Doctson because both tend to take more chances.

 

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skinsfan93

skinsfan93

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

Not sure anything in this post is accurate. Ricky Williams was far better in his first stint in the league than when came back and "played better". Williams played 5 season before "retiring" and in 4 of them topped 1000 yards (and in the 5th he got 884 yards in 12 games). In the six seasons after coming back (not including the year in which he was suspended for the season. You know, for failing a drug test. Again), he topped 1000 yards once. All his Pro Bowls came in his first stint. If you're looking for an example of a player "getting it", Williams probably isn't the right choice.

 

Not to mention, I'm not sure there's any correlation to Doctson here. It's easy to write off a failed first round pick as "not wanting it enough", but is there any evidence to actually back this up? I'm asking because I don't fully know. I'm not keeping up on Josh Doctson 24/7. But things I've read suggest he actually is a hard worker and not some lazy bum smoking weed all the time. Sounds more like a situation of the Redskins badly misjudging his actual talent than Doctson not trying. Too much of the criticism about him seems to be speculation based on some quotes of his than tangible evidence he's lazy.

You are right as I looked at his stats and they’re different than what I recall. 

 

The point of my post is that Ricky Williams had a lot of tools but the drive wasn’t there and he just abruptly retired. Read or listen to Doctson. When I do, I don’t see an alpha male which is wha you need in a true #1. His reaction to not getting the fifth year option is a perfect example. He simply says oh well it happens. “Why would it be motivation for me?” I suppose that’s better in some ways than taking a prima donna attitude but I rather see him pissed and using it as a chip on his shoulder. 

 

How many guys have gotten passed over in the draft and still talk about how they are pissed. Rodgers and Brady still talk about it. Doctson just seems to be going about business as usual and that doesn’t translate to having a successful year IMHO. 

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Next year won't be the best year to come out as a FA for Doctson, looking like potentially historic draft for WR.   

 

 

 

 

Yeah 2020 draft is looking to be absolutely stacked with offense in general...especially WR and QB. With that sort of draft at wideout, Doctson probably won't get too many suitors unless he has a Pro Bowl year, in which case I'd prefer that we keep him (unless he had it with Keenum and we don't think Haskins will utilize him as much). But that would put us in a bit of a pickle...do we tag him or try to extend him if something like that happens?

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
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28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Next year won't be the best year to come out as a FA for Doctson, looking like potentially historic draft for WR.   

If he doesn't have some amazing production increase, what is going on around him won't matter a damn...

 

In order to be signed as anything more than low-end depth, he's going to have to step up and have a real impact this year.  Otherwise basically his career as a starter is gone, and he's into a "compete for a roster spot" territory.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
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13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If he doesn't have some amazing production increase, what is going on around him won't matter a damn...

 

In order to be signed as anything more than low-end depth, he's going to have to step up and have a real impact this year.  Otherwise basically his career as a starter is gone, and he's into a "compete for a roster spot" territory.

 

Yeah obviously he needs to put up some numbers to make some hay in FA.  My point is just in general its looking at least in theory to be an historic draft for WR which is interesting for more reasons than just how it effects Doctson.  Can this team break its long history of misses in their attempt to find that elusive #1 receiver.  This coming draft might be the best shot to do it.  The fact that Alabama has 3 hyped receivers in that mix likely coming out -- adds to the intrigue considering the FO's fascination with that school. 

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zCommander

zCommander

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

Honestly, if he has a 15 catch, 350 yard breakout season, I say let him walk and recoup a comp pick.  The WR corps needs a total overhaul.

 

Last year was the breakout season for him @ 44 catches for 532

This year he will need to do more if he wants a better contract next year with another team. 

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hatchetwound

hatchetwound

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Last year was the breakout season for him @ 44 catches for 532

This year he will need to do more if he wants a better contract next year with another team. 

I know, I was trying to make a joke about his overall lack of production.  :( 

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zCommander

zCommander

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, hatchetwound said:

I know, I was trying to make a joke about his overall lack of production.  :( 

 

And i was being serious..lol. :D

12 hours ago, profusion said:

Doctson has flashed potential, but we need to start seeing reliability.

 

Reliability comes when there is ONE QB present in all 16 games and not 4. Chemistry between the WR and QB is a must. 

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

Posted
Posted

Damn Jay must really like our trio of Davis Sims and Harmon for the rumors to still be churning about trading our undisputed #1 this late in preseason.  One possible aspect no one has mentioned that I have read.... for being our #1 I think its safe to say he has zero chemistry with our top 2 QBs.  That's one more reason to not worry about losing him.

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CommandB11

CommandB11

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Doc and Trent to Houston for a 1st and Fuller

Trent, Doctson, and Ap to Houston for Clowney and 1st. Kerrigan and 3rd to Falcons for Ridley and 2nd.

 

Im just making stuff up now. Madden likely wouldnt even accept those trades....

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ThomasRoane

ThomasRoane

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Posted

It's sad but at this point I think they'll be lucky to get a conditional 5th for Doctson.  Reminds me of my mom's yard sale philosophy.  Buy high and sell low!

 

Honestly, I don't even care if they just cut him.  I like the potential of the young receivers the team has so do what's best for the team.  Anyone in the 2020 war room who mentions drafting a wideout in the first round next year should be drug by the feet around the Fed Ex field parking lot.  Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Rod Gardner, and now Doctson.  The Redskins just can't hit on a receiver in the first.  It's the Art Monk curse.  Should never let him go to Philly.  He should have been a Redskin for life. 

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Poindexter

Poindexter

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

If Doctson has fallen below the depth chart of the current WRs on the team, then I can't blame the team for cutting him if they can't work out a trade.  

Agreed....Jay has also stated that Doctson "will never be a receiver who creates separation, but can win 50/50 balls".  

 

When I read that I knew that he was on his way out.  Why would you want a WR who is limited, makes him less versatile and easier to defend.  I can see him being released or trading him and swapping 6th round draft picks.  I would be shocked if we get anything for him.  

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/8/4/20753690/jay-gruden-redskins-presser-were-looking-for-a-punt-returner-who-can-catch-the-ball 

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