What to do with LG

[MassSkinsFan]

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I think it's overstated how much of a change moving guys around really is. It's a consideration, sure, but nothing more. 

 

If it weren't an issue, why wouldn't you just substitute guys all game like a DL does?

 

Ask a QB if they'd mind having a different C each play. Ask the starting RG whether he knows the habits of the starting C and RT better than the habits of the 2nd stringers. Consistency is not the most important thing, but it helps. The OL is basically one position with several parts; coordination of its parts is really important. Knowing how each part behaves helps the other parts be where they need to be.

 

I think moving guys around the OL is more than just a consideration. That said, injuries and a 53 man roster limit make it a reality at times, but not an attractive alternative to having reliable position players.

 

 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

 

What is the beef they have with Flowers? Motivation issues? Not skilled enough? Miscast?

 

Not sure other than what I've read recently, but the first 2 seem likely. Although you never really know the true circumstance as these situation start to turn ugly.

 

One thing does seem apparent is that we have very limited options to make an obvious and clear upgrade at the moment.

[joeken24]

So Sean Welsh just retired from football over the weekend. I was actually thinking he was going to be the answer at LG. But I truly, hope he gets the help and peace he needs.

 

But of course, someone on this thread will align this with the Su' Craven deal and blame Bruce Allen for not doing his homework. 

Blah blah blah.

 

Just remember, he was UN-drafted. Again, I hope he finds peace.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

45 minutes ago, MassSkinsFan said:

 

If it weren't an issue, why wouldn't you just substitute guys all game like a DL does?

 

Ask a QB if they'd mind having a different C each play. Ask the starting RG whether he knows the habits of the starting C and RT better than the habits of the 2nd stringers. Consistency is not the most important thing, but it helps. The OL is basically one position with several parts; coordination of its parts is really important. Knowing how each part behaves helps the other parts be where they need to be.

 

I think moving guys around the OL is more than just a consideration. That said, injuries and a 53 man roster limit make it a reality at times, but not an attractive alternative to having reliable position players.

 

 

 

Sorry - I don't mean it can be interchangeable during the course of a game. I guess what I mean is that I don't think you hold back on playing your best option at G just because if he ever has to play T there are two changes rather than one. I don't think it's THAT important that you'd ever avoid fielding a line with your best five. 

[SkinsGuy]

The Redskins signed another OL today:

 

Washington Redskins
✔@Redskins

#Redskin sign OL Casey Dunn, LB Vontae Diggs and WR Darvin Kidsy, waive WR Mikah Holder and C Sean Welsh (designated left squad).

 

Here is an article about him. Anybody know much about him?

 

https://riggosrag.com/2018/05/14/washington-redskins-sign-three-tryout-players-waive-two/

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

The Redskins signed another OL today:

 

Washington Redskins
✔@Redskins

#Redskin sign OL Casey Dunn,

 

Yeah, but he's a 295 lb center. Definitely not going to be our answer at LG.

[dswerdlw]

 

2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Yeah, but he's a 295 lb center. Definitely not going to be our answer at LG.

I don't know anything about Casey Dunn.  If, miraculously, he's good enough to start at center, Roullier can play guard.

[Veryoldschool]

Sounds like the core of the OL is going to be weak again but they drafted a running back again. I don’t see how this is going to change things, I expect the Skins will continue to need to pass on 3rd and short and near the goal line because they lack power.

[Anselmheifer]

13 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

 

It's water under the bridge now, but would have much rather we taken a LG instead of Apke in the 4th round. 

 

Our draft would have been an "A" if we had done so, in my opinion.

 

We took Apke with the 9th pick in the 4th round. The next OG off the board, VT's Wyatt Teller, wasn't chosen until the 29th pick of the 5th round. There just wasn't great talent available. They did the right thing by drafting players with at least some sort of ceiling.My only big regret is that I think Hurst might play in some pro bowls and could have been had for a 5th. 

 

Edit: Now that I'm looking at Teller, I think he might have been a great pick in the 4th or 5th. I would have been in favor of adding a pick to grab him. I'm still happy with who we did take. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/wyatt-teller?id=32462018-0002-5598-34ee-fdb0a7ca0c59

http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=128245&draftyear=2018&genpos=OG

[SkinsGuy]

7 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

Sounds like the core of the OL is going to be weak again but they drafted a running back again, I don’t see how this is going to change things, I expect the Skins will continue to need to pass on 3rd and short and near the goaline because they lack power.

 

If you believe that, you don't know Guice's reputation. That man runs with POWER and ANGER.  

 

Center, I believe will be fine. We have pro bowlers at the other 3 positions.

 

LG is the only issue here in mid-May.

[wilco_holland]

One thing that I want to mention. Our team is in a bad LG position but that makes us very interesting for a lot of FA Guards. 

 

On other teams they need to fight for just a roster spot, in DC they can win the starting job. So if anybody gets cut they probally will be very interested in joining our team.

 

But yeah this is roster mismanagement. Last week Gruden said they messed up last year with not having a backup punt returner...looks like this year they forgot the LG position. 

 

We now just hope that one of does young guys play lights out or that a solid vet gets cut. I looked around team rosters. Didn't really see a lot of potential cuts. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

19 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

SL is average. He gets a lot of crap on here, but he's average.  

 

The biggest problem is that he's always hurt.  But when he's available, he's average.

 

 

He was rated the #70 guard in the NFL  by Pro Football Focus.  Others have posted similar ratings by other sources. Considering there are 64 starting guards, so #32 would be average, obviously at #70 Lauvao is far below average.  And now he is a year older.  

[Peregrine]

Yaaaaaayyy.

 

So now we are down three options that for SOME reason people thought were practical, Lauvau, Welsh, and AK. Which means we are in an even worse LG situation that last year, which was bad.  At this point we are being forced to trade for one.

[goskins10]

10 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Yaaaaaayyy.

 

So now we are down three options that for SOME reason people thought were practical, Lauvau, Welsh, and AK. Which means we are in an even worse LG situation that last year, which was bad.  At this point we are being forced to trade for one.

 

I will assume you mean Sean Welsh - He retired. There is still a possibility that they are looking at Ty or TW at LG. I know many said that Christian was not a candidate for LG but they may see it differently. 

 

Not saying any of that is idea, just that there are other options. There is still a lot of time between now and the start of the season. 

4 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

One thing that I want to mention. Our team is in a bad LG position but that makes us very interesting for a lot of FA Guards. 

 

On other teams they need to fight for just a roster spot, in DC they can win the starting job. So if anybody gets cut they probally will be very interested in joining our team.

 

But yeah this is roster mismanagement. Last week Gruden said they messed up last year with not having a backup punt returner...looks like this year they forgot the LG position. 

 

We now just hope that one of does young guys play lights out or that a solid vet gets cut. I looked around team rosters. Didn't really see a lot of potential cuts. 

 

Forgot LG? Not likely. Lol.     It's just May. There is still a lot of time. They have not even started training camp yet. 

[Thinking Skins]

I just wanted to make a note to come back later and do some further analysis. At the same time we released & signed players after the rookie minicamp, a few other players were released. Here are those names in case anybody (myself included) wants to look at them in terms of possibilities:

 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/05/minor-nfl-transactions-51418

Austin Olsen

Travis Averill

Cameron Lee

Anthony Fabiano

Avery Gennesy

Daronte Bouldin

[Thinking Skins]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2723636-the-best-undrafted-free-agent-in-every-2017-nfl-training-camp#slide2

 

Atlanta Falcons: Guard Travis Averill

2 of 32

 

Associated Press

A general manager can't go wrong with stocking up on offensive line depth during the UDFA period.

A sturdy offensive line is the motor that runs every offense. And when it sputters because of injury, a replacement piece needs to be plugged in fast so the whole unit keeps on chugging.

That's surely what the Atlanta Falcons had in mind when they signed five UDFA offensive linemen immediately following the draft. They're throwing low-cost darts, hoping to get serviceable depth from at least one of them.

The lineman they could hit a bull's-eye with is guard Travis Averill. He was a steady starter for Boise State over the final three seasons of his college career and earned first-team All-Mountain West honors in 2016. As Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline noted, Averill is a capable athlete with fluid movement as a blocker.

"Quickly sets up off the snap, keeps his head on a swivel and works well with linemates," Pauline wrote. "Displays a good degree of quickness in his game, moves well on his feet and shows fluidity pulling across the scrimmage."

Averill still needs to improve fundamentally. But he might have the skill set to stick around, develop and eventually add to an existing strength for the Falcons.

[RWJ]

15 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Yeah, but he's a 295 lb center. Definitely not going to be our answer at LG.

They'll move Roullier (sp) sorry from C to LG if need be if something happens to Ty.  Then Casey, if he shows potential and makes the team for depth can take over at C.  We also have Kalis who I think stands the best chance to play LG behind Ty.  

[skinny21]

I’m not optimistic about the LG spot, but  I’m thinking Kalis or Catalina have a decent shot at achieving somewhere around mediocre play there.  

 

Not ideal of course, but with better health/depth elsewhere on the oline, a much better back, and the skills Smith brings to the table... I’m not sure it will be quite the disaster we’re envisioning. That’s my hope anyway.

 

Edit:  to expound on that just a bit... if Kalis/Catalina/whoever can play better than bottom of the barrel (essentially the level of play we got from Lauvao), then we’ll have actually upgraded the position... as crazy as that sounds.   

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

He was rated the #70 guard in the NFL  by Pro Football Focus.  Others have posted similar ratings by other sources. Considering there are 64 starting guards, so #32 would be average, obviously at #70 Lauvao is far below average.  And now he is a year older.  

PFF is basically worthless. He’s fine when healthy.  The biggest issue is he’s never healthy.  Which probably contributes to his low ranking.

 

again, I’d prefer there was a better solution.  However if you go back and look at the ranking for Chester when he was here, I’m sure it was pitiful. But he was still the starting LG for a team that had a 20+ poInt lead in the SB.

 

My point is it’s not really worth panicking about LG yet.  It’s probably the least important position on the field. 

[Tarpon75]

7 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

One thing that I want to mention. Our team is in a bad LG position but that makes us very interesting for a lot of FA Guards. 

 

On other teams they need to fight for just a roster spot, in DC they can win the starting job. So if anybody gets cut they probally will be very interested in joining our team.

 

But yeah this is roster mismanagement. Last week Gruden said they messed up last year with not having a backup punt returner...looks like this year they forgot the LG position. 

 

We now just hope that one of does young guys play lights out or that a solid vet gets cut. I looked around team rosters. Didn't really see a lot of potential cuts. 

I would say they didn’t forget but used the resources elsewhere. I don’t understand taking a developmental tackle with a third round pick that you had to trade to get.Particulary when you have glaring weaknesses at lg. 

[bird_1972]

13 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

We took Apke with the 9th pick in the 4th round. The next OG off the board, VT's Wyatt Teller, wasn't chosen until the 29th pick of the 5th round. There just wasn't great talent available. They did the right thing by drafting players with at least some sort of ceiling.My only big regret is that I think Hurst might play in some pro bowls and could have been had for a 5th. 

 

Edit: Now that I'm looking at Teller, I think he might have been a great pick in the 4th or 5th. I would have been in favor of adding a pick to grab him. I'm still happy with who we did take. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/wyatt-teller?id=32462018-0002-5598-34ee-fdb0a7ca0c59

http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=128245&draftyear=2018&genpos=OG

 

Fair point, but we could have traded down (maybe we tried?)

 

Either way, I'm only slightly annoyed by this pick in theory since BPA is the way to go in the draft. I just don't think Apke was BPA at that spot - regardless of the OG available. 

[Master Blaster]

15 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

Sounds like the core of the OL is going to be weak again but they drafted a running back again, I don’t see how this is going to change things, I expect the Skins will continue to need to pass on 3rd and short and near the goaline because they lack power.

 

Remember how many sacks the o-line gave up with RGIII?

 

Then remember how those sacks dramatically dropped with Cousins?

 

Sometimes the sum of the parts is better than the individual pieces. 

[MassSkinsFan]

21 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Sorry - I don't mean it can be interchangeable during the course of a game. I guess what I mean is that I don't think you hold back on playing your best option at G just because if he ever has to play T there are two changes rather than one. I don't think it's THAT important that you'd ever avoid fielding a line with your best five. 

 

Yep - I misinterpreted that. Sorry!

 

I agree with you, with one minor exception - guys who are super-tall can have some limitations inside. You'd want to really examine that to see if they can "play shorter" and avoid being out-leveraged by bowling ball DL.  A great example of a guy good enough to overcome that is Joe Jacoby.

 

 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

One injury to Scherff  .. and this house of cards coming falling down like last year. Whole season potentially compromised. 

 

I dont mind rolling with a JAG at LG but I am very worried that we dont have any depth behind that JAG or Scherff. One injury to the starting 5 and we have to move guys out of position etc. Guys are resting all week not practicing then playing Sunday ala Trent and Moses most of last year. 

 

Two injuries to the OL? Most likely insurmountable (as the roster is now). 

[bird_1972]

Since @Thinking Skins posted a profile about one of the recent released players across the league. 

 

Here's one on Cameron Lee - OG Illinois State Missouri Valley

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/cameron-lee?id=2558293

 

OVERVIEW

A three-sport star at Oakwood High School in Illinois, Lee holds school records for home runs and runs batted in, and was a 1,000-point scorer in basketball along with his all-county play on the gridiron. He walked on at ISU to focus on football, playing on the practice squad in 2013 and in 13 games as a reserve as a sophomore. Lee won the starting job at right guard as a junior, and then earned honorable mention All-Missouri Valley Football Conference honors as a starter at guard and right tackle.

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS

 Has long arms at the end of a well-proportioned, NFL-caliber frame. Always looking to finish his blocks when he's able to sustain. Will flash some edge to his play. Attempts to unlock hips and roll them into his run blocks. Plays with some upper body "wrestling strength" when it's time to maul. Pass sets with a wide base. Possesses natural anchor strength to battle back against bull-rush attempts. Sees and responds to twists. Keeps hands hanging in punch-ready position. Hands generally stay inside the frame of opponent.

WEAKNESSES

 Pops up too tall after the snap. Poor pad level robs him of low-man status and ability to generate drive-blocking power. Has heavy feet and is slow into second-level blocks. Unable to mirror athletic interior rushers smoothly. Straight-legged pass setter with poor change of direction quickness. Waist-bending and leaning into blocks is a common theme throughout the tape. Has problems with body control and balance. Over-sets on the edges and allows his weight to drift outside of his frame. Tends to lead with his upper body in all aspects of his game. Needs to play with faster hands.

DRAFT PROJECTION

 Round 6-7

BOTTOM LINE

 Lack of natural bend limits his power and he has below average athleticism, but Lee's size and physical traits are certain to appeal to teams who covet those strengths along the interior. He could become a career backup who could step into some snaps in the right situation.