What to do with LG

[bird_1972]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

SL is average. He gets a lot of crap on here, but he's average.  

 

The biggest problem is that he's always hurt.  But when he's available, he's average.

 

 

I think G should be a draft priority next offseason. 

 

For this season, "average guard" is OK. 

 

We still need to try and pick up another "average guard" amongst the springtime cuts.

[SkinsGuy]

3 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Yeah, good point. 

 

I'm hoping some guard depth becomes available as teams trim their rosters. I know we won't get a top shelf starter but if we can have a mid-range guy or two to compete, I'd be happy. 

 

Just as long as we don't trade any draft picks for anyone. That's a bridge too far.

 

Well, since the Redskins may have as many as four compensatory picks in next year's draft, if they traded a late one (like a 5th or a 6th) for a guard this year, I wouldn't sweat it.

 

I think the Redskins were willing to give Lauvao opportunities to secure the job of LG the last couple of seasons. However, with their slow resigning of him this offseason, I don't think they are quite so willing to rely on him this season.

 

We'll see how it goes.

[markmills67]

We have 2 3rd round picks next year, I would trade one for a quality G in a heartbeat. 

 

HTTR 

[MassSkinsFan]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I have no idea what you saw that the rest of us didn't.  He was getting trucked on a regular basis, worse than Lauvao. 

 

 

It wasn't just me. A lot of other ESers saw it too. Ribs was just better at C than Licht.

 

I was one of the posters going against the commonly held idea that Ribs was a downgrade from Licht. He wasn't. The reason this was a commonly held idea IMHO is that most football fans don't know what is actually happening on OL, and because people had lost confidence in Ribs because he came in overweight the year before and sat out the season. I have enough OL experience to know what I see, and to know that I have to defer to others on anything related to running routes or DBs. I was honestly shocked when Jay started Licht against GB in the playoffs. I thought that was an incredibly poor decision. I also believe it contributed to our loss that day.

 

I'm not saying you didn't see Ribs get trucked. Everybody gets trucked once in a while. I'm just saying he improved the play at C once Licht went down. I'm also not saying he's better than Lauvao, but if Lauvao is in the running Ribs is certainly in the same talent range.

 

Hail

On 5/13/2018 at 9:23 AM, Wyvern said:

@Carex:  Thanks for  alerting me to the fact the skins re-signed Tony Bergstrom.  I missed that during the off-season.

 

I hadn't seen Bergstom at center, most of the rosters I'd seen had him listed as a (back up) guard.

 

I'm not sure how good of a center Bergstrm is, but he's been in the league a long time. (I wish the Skins had kept Sullivan).  

 

.My only concern remaining is this would be one guy backing up two positions that are now very thin.

 

Begrstrom is ok. Serviceable. 

 

But Roullier is clearly better. He's meaner and way more agile. He targets and locks on, even in wide open space with smaller, nimbler targets. Bergstrom just doesn't have that knack. 

[skinny21]

6 minutes ago, MassSkinsFan said:

 

It wasn't just me. A lot of other ESers saw it too. Ribs was just better at C than Licht.

 

I was one of the posters going against the commonly held idea that Ribs was a downgrade from Licht. He wasn't. The reason this was a commonly held idea IMHO is that most football fans don't know what is actually happening on OL, and because people had lost confidence in Ribs because he came in overweight the year before and sat out the season. I have enough OL experience to know what I see, and to know that I have to defer to others on anything related to running routes or DBs. I was honestly shocked when Jay started Licht against GB in the playoffs. I thought that was an incredibly poor decision. I also believe it contributed to our loss that day.

 

I'm not saying you didn't see Ribs get trucked. Everybody gets trucked once in a while. I'm just saying he improved the play at C once Licht went down. I'm also not saying he's better than Lauvao, but if Lauvao is in the running Ribs is certainly in the same talent range.

 

Hail

 

Begrstrom is ok. Serviceable. 

 

But Roullier is clearly better. He's meaner and way more agile. He targets and locks on, even in wide open space with smaller, nimbler targets. Bergstrom just doesn't have that knack. 

I was with you on LeRibeus, including it being a bad decision to pull him.  

 

I liked the Bergstrom signing because he offers serviceable backup capability at G and (more importantly at the time) C.  On top of that, he’s cheap and now has some experience in our system.  Don’t see any way he takes the starting job... though the pickings are slim in terms of who’s on the roster.  

 

Maybe we should see if one of our dlinemen wants to give it a go, lol.  Taylor at LG?  That might be fun to watch.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

35 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

I think G should be a draft priority next offseason. 

 

For this season, "average guard" is OK. 

 

We still need to try and pick up another "average guard" amongst the springtime cuts.

Interestingly, the 'Skins have drafted a bunch of guards since 2012:

2015 - Scherff (1)

2015 - Arie (4)

2014 - Long (3)

2012 - Ribbs (3)

2012 - Gettis (5)

 

That's actually a fair number.  Long left in FA, Arie wasn't really all that good, Ribbs is what Ribbs was...

 

I think they'll continue to target G, but I don't think they'll do it high in the draft, somewhere in the 3rd - 5th rounds.  They tend to pick up a couple every couple of years.  They didn't in 2016 - 2018, which means it will probably be a priority next year...

 

Just a guess. 

 

[bird_1972]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think they'll continue to target G, but I don't think they'll do it high in the draft, somewhere in the 3rd - 5th rounds.  They tend to pick up a couple every couple of years.  They didn't in 2016 - 2018, which means it will probably be a priority next year...

 

That's reasonable to me. I didn't necessarily mean they should spend a top pick on LG (unless there is an elite guy sitting there who is clearly BPA when we pick). 

 

Ribbs and Gettis were swings and misses. Maybe Arie too, although it would have been nice to see him compete for a starting position this year.

[skinny21]

A few interesting things about Catalina.

 

He’s got a little experience at C, though he played LT for 3 years at Rhode Island.  Got the attention of a bunch of teams when looking to transfer to D1 for his senior year, with Georgia winning the bid.  Started at LT (Isiah Wynn moved back to LG from LT... Wynn only played a few games at LT the previous year).  

 

Very solid strength and burst scores at combine, but pretty weak in terms of speed and burst.  Seems like a smart, dedicated guy (was spending 5-6 hours a day in the gym after the college football season ended, and he was often the last olinemen off the field at Redskins practices) and he’s got the size to play inside - 6’4, 330 lbs.  

 

Last year was his first real chance to play G (projected as a better fit for the interior pre-draft), so he’s got a learning curve there.  Lot of teams were trying to get him signed post draft, which may partially explain why they kept him over Kalis (as opposed to only a versatility thing).   

[bird_1972]

38 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Very solid strength and burst scores at combine, but pretty weak in terms of speed and burst.  

 

Thanks for the summary but the statement you made above seems to be contradictory. 

 

How is he very solid in terms of burst but pretty weak in terms of burst at the same time?

[Wildbunny]

Riggos Rag just posted some interesting vets options for the LG position.

 

Many of them seems to be unrealistic to happen, but worth a read anyway:

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/421991-rr-redskins-5-veteran-options-to-acquire-to-create-more-competition-at-left-guard/

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

For this year, I think you need to use Ty at G. We now have 3 starting caliber Ts and another 3rd rounder that they are high on. I think it's OK to transition someone to G. Ty is the right guy since he's not exactly young and you wouldn't be stunting his development. 

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

SL is average. He gets a lot of crap on here, but he's average.  

 

The biggest problem is that he's always hurt.  But when he's available, he's average.

 

This matters more then I think some are willing to admit on this considering how many injuries we had last year.  None of this is happening in a vacuum, if people start dropping and the people replacing them are expected to start dropping before they drop, too, that's a bad plan.  

 

Is what it is, I may just refrain from comment until we get to preseason and see how big of deal this really will be.  We all see it coming, but nothing we can do until it gets here.  Have to believe if its as obvious as some of us believe it will be, Allen will try to do something about before the season starts.  It's not just June 1st cuts, its preseason cuts that might help us as well.

[Morneblade]

22 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

For this year, I think you need to use Ty at G. We now have 3 starting caliber Ts and another 3rd rounder that they are high on. I think it's OK to transition someone to G. Ty is the right guy since he's not exactly young and you wouldn't be stunting his development. 

I don't think this is a good idea. 6'8" is really tall for a G, and it's likely he is going to loose the leverage battle almost every time.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Cards seem like they have a glut of OL. Cards signed Pugh (G) and Andre Smith (RT), drafted a G in this years 3rd round and had there other G Iupati agreed to a pay cut.

 

Evan Boehm would be real intriguing. 24 yrs old, C converted to G. 2016 4th round pick. Apparently was benched last year before injuries made him a starter again. Maybe a conditional 5th rounder might do it if he is not a cap cut in camp. Seems like a perfect swing C-G, young, still on rookie contract. 

-----------------

 

Broncos G Max Garcia, 2015 4th rounder, may be another potential camp cut. Much of the same reasons as Boehm. 

 

Boys Joe Looney

 

Bucs Sweazy

 

Titans Pamphile

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2774817-the-best-player-who-could-be-cut-from-every-nfl-roster-this-offseason#slide31

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

I don't think this is a good idea. 6'8" is really tall for a G, and it's likely he is going to loose the leverage battle almost every time.

 

You don't think it's a good idea because you think we have a better option?

 

 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Thanks for the summary but the statement you made above seems to be contradictory. 

 

How is he very solid in terms of burst but pretty weak in terms of burst at the same time?

Haha, my bad.  Strong with good burst, poor speed and agility score. 

[Morneblade]

11 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

You don't think it's a good idea because you think we have a better option?

 

 

 

Are you asking if we have a better option on the roster? If so, I think that Lauvao would be a better G that Ty, for the reason I stated, and that playing G can be tough for a lifelong Tackle. Catalina might work out better as well. Everything happens a little faster inside, and I see Ty getting moved around a lot. I think his height will be a liability. But I don't feel either player is a good option. I'd prefer to see is try and get another G in here, maybe one from the list that Wildbunny posted the link for above.

[carex]

6'8 is tall for a guard, but the Skins aren't just rying Nsekhe there from what we heard from minincamp.  At least one of th guys there was a 6'8 guard and another was 6'6

[bird_1972]

45 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Cards seem like they have a glut of OL. Cards signed Pugh (G) and Andre Smith (RT), drafted a G in this years 3rd round and had there other G Iupati agreed to a pay cut...

 

@Why am I Mr. Pink?,

 

This is awesome. Thanks for pulling these names together. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

34 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Are you asking if we have a better option on the roster? If so, I think that Lauvao would be a better G that Ty, for the reason I stated, and that playing G can be tough for a lifelong Tackle. Catalina might work out better as well. Everything happens a little faster inside, and I see Ty getting moved around a lot. I think his height will be a liability. But I don't feel either player is a good option. I'd prefer to see is try and get another G in here, maybe one from the list that Wildbunny posted the link for above.

 

Got it. If a natural guard would play better than Nsheke, then of course it makes sense to play the guard at LG. My assumption when I responded was that Ty would be an upgrade. In short, I want the best guys out there...I don't pretend to know who that is. 

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Got it. If a natural guard would play better than Nsheke, then of course it makes sense to play the guard at LG. My assumption when I responded was that Ty would be an upgrade. In short, I want the best guys out there...I don't pretend to know who that is. 

 

Neither do I. I just put out why I don't think this would be a "good" idea. I don't see Ty working well, or even marginally here. And I stated one of the reasons I thought he would not. I think if we want to have some that would be considered just "average" or better, we need to look to someone not on our roster.

 

And, to another reason I think moving Ty to G would not be good, Moses and Trent have injury histories. Ty is likely going to have to start at one, if not both T positions this year at some point. So, moving him to G takes away our swing tackle, who will likely have to start at some point this season, and as performed well in that role, to a position where he has no experience and doesn't look to have the frame for it. Just my 2 cents.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Neither do I. I just put out why I don't think this would be a "good" idea. I don't see Ty working well, or even marginally here. And I stated one of the reasons I thought he would not. I think if we want to have some that would be considered just "average" or better, we need to look to someone not on our roster.

 

And, to another reason I think moving Ty to G would not be good, Moses and Trent have injury histories. Ty is likely going to have to start at one, if not both T positions this year at some point. So, moving him to G takes away our swing tackle, who will likely have to start at some point this season, and as performed well in that role, to a position where he has no experience and doesn't look to have the frame for it. Just my 2 cents.

 

My only argument to the paragraph above is that you can always shift...

 

IF Nysheke was the best option at G, you don't keep him on the bench because you might need him later in the year. If he started at G and then had to take over at T, you just get the next guy and plug him in at G to back fill for Nysheke. 

 

I think it's overstated how much of a change moving guys around really is. It's a consideration, sure, but nothing more. 

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

My only argument to the paragraph above is that you can always shift...

 

IF Nysheke was the best option at G, you don't keep him on the bench because you might need him later in the year. If he started at G and then had to take over at T, you just get the next guy and plug him in at G to back fill for Nysheke. 

 

I think it's overstated how much of a change moving guys around really is. It's a consideration, sure, but nothing more. 

 

I agree with this in general.

[Est.1974]

Jahri Evans would be a strong one year option. I think he would command really good money though.

 

The Giants are trying their hardest to dump Ereck Flowers. Not sure his shift to RT will resolve the issue of him being unwanted. Tried to trade him without takers and haven't picked up his 5th year option.

 

Seems liked he mailed it in last season. Not saying he's the answer, but as a long shot, I wouldn't discount us trying to plug him in on the OL if he became available.

[bird_1972]

53 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Jahri Evans would be a strong one year option. I think he would command really good money though.

 

The Giants are trying their hardest to dump Ereck Flowers. Not sure his shift to RT will resolve the issue of him being unwanted. Tried to trade him without takers and haven't picked up his 5th year option.

 

Seems liked he mailed it in last season. Not saying he's the answer, but as a long shot, I wouldn't discount us trying to plug him in on the OL if he became available.

 

What is the beef they have with Flowers? Motivation issues? Not skilled enough? Miscast?