What to do with LG

[Wyvern]

@Carex:  Thanks for  alerting me to the fact the skins re-signed Tony Bergstrom.  I missed that during the off-season.

 

I hadn't seen Bergstom at center, most of the rosters I'd seen had him listed as a (back up) guard.

 

I'm not sure how good of a center Bergstrm is, but he's been in the league a long time. (I wish the Skins had kept Sullivan).  

 

.My only concern remaining is this would be one guy backing up two positions that are now very thin.

[SWFLSkins]

The offensive lineman trying out are larger than normal. For instance, Cody O’Connell is a 6’8″, 350-pound guard and he’s not overweight by any stretch. Then there is Cameron Jefferson who is listed at 6’6″ and 317lbs. He was part of the Denver Broncos Super Bowl L (50) championship team.

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/11/notes-from-redskins-rookie-minicamp/

There also is John Kling. Listed at 6-foot-8, 320 pounds, the college free agent out of Buffalo from last year is trying again to make the Redskins roster after the team signed him to the practice squad last April.

[bird_1972]

15 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

The offensive lineman trying out are larger than normal. For instance, Cody O’Connell is a 6’8″, 350-pound guard and he’s not overweight by any stretch. Then there is Cameron Jefferson who is listed at 6’6″ and 317lbs. He was part of the Denver Broncos Super Bowl L (50) championship team.

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/11/notes-from-redskins-rookie-minicamp/

There also is John Kling. Listed at 6-foot-8, 320 pounds, the college free agent out of Buffalo from last year is trying again to make the Redskins roster after the team signed him to the practice squad last April.

 

Good.

 

Let's get as many of these guys in the door as possible and have them compete. We need depth at G and have to be able to do better than Lavau (sp?)

[JaxJoe]

Guys like Jeff Bostic at 6’2” 268 would never make it in today’s NFL. Although, I think he was considered small towards the end of his career

[carex]

26 minutes ago, JaxJoe said:

Guys like Jeff Bostic at 6’2” 268 would never make it in today’s NFL. Although, I think he was considered small towards the end of his career

 

he was already undersized enough that in 87 the Skins tried to move Grimm back to center, his college position. 

[skinsOLfan]

I had a thought, Laken Tomlinson the Guard currently with SF49ers was someone I wanted the Skins to draft, he's young 26 I think and he's a road grader but he's in the last year of his contract and SF isn't going to resign him. You know the Shanahans like small light in the pants lineman (that's why they traded their huge RT Brown to the Patriots during the draft)so I would trade a 5th rounder next year for Tomlinson and bring in Jari Evans and maybe Robinson as well. 

[Renegade7]

8 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

The only problem for us is that the colts o line has been horrible in recent years.  Obviously strengthening the unit was priority number one, and I don't see them choosing to part with depth there unless we overpay for a guy with an injury history.  

@carex  touched on it, right now we need a LG more then some of these other teams need draft picks.  If we are lucky enough to pull off a trade, I expect to fill the whole, but I don't expect to win the trade.  We don't have the high ground on this one at all.

[RWJ]

Here is what I think the Skins are thinking about LG at this time.

 

Plan A is Ty

Plan B is a player on the team

Plan C is scouring the waiver/released players or trading for a LG.

[goskins10]

20 hours ago, carex said:

 

he was already undersized enough that in 87 the Skins tried to move Grimm back to center, his college position. 

 

Here is an article from that time period. They tried to move him out a few other times after. It proves once again that while size is important it's not the only thing. Bostic was the epitome of someone playing angry - a great trait for an offensive lineman. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1987/08/04/bostic-demoted-in-shakeup-of-redskins-offensive-line/99614d91-28f8-4636-901e-6b079efdd5f8/?utm_term=.72aaa6be3022

[MassSkinsFan]

On 5/11/2018 at 8:31 PM, skinny21 said:

Clearly @MassSkinsFan needs to stop watching film of our LGs.  

 

Seriously, I'm done. 

 

I'll keep my eyes averted during pre-season and regular season too. I just hope my basilisk-like stare doesn't take out anyone else.

[SkinsGuy]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Here is an article from that time period. They tried to move him out a few other times after. It proves once again that while size is important it's not the only thing. Bostic was the epitome of someone playing angry - a great trait for an offensive lineman. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1987/08/04/bostic-demoted-in-shakeup-of-redskins-offensive-line/99614d91-28f8-4636-901e-6b079efdd5f8/?utm_term=.72aaa6be3022

 

Yep.

 

If you watch the documentary "America's Game: The Super Bowl" on the 1987 Redskins, they go into Bostic's situation that season with him:

 

(NOTE: The top of this you tube clip says the "1991 Redskins", but it is an error. This one is about the 1987 Redskins).

 

 

[MassSkinsFan]

On 5/12/2018 at 6:26 AM, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If we are trotting out the name Josh LeRibeus we are in serious trouble. That guy was terrible, downright terrible, and he was rated higher than the guy who apparently will be starting again.  Can't fix every need but this one was so glaring, now it's a complete dumpster fired.  Literally their only hope is a good vet is release and then of course they need to be the team to sign him.  Otherwise this one weak link will really handicap the offense.  

 

Ribs was better than most people think. He was certainly a better option than Licht and I was one of a handful on ES who was angry when they yanked him in 2015 paloffs against the Packers. He was playing much better than Licht had before he went down, and the team was on a roll with Ribs at C. I thought they should have left him there and continued their hot streak. With the return of Licht our O just wasn't the same.

 

Is LeRibeus a desirable long-term answer on our OL? No. Is he better than many of the guys included in our OL competition at the moment? Yes.

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 minute ago, MassSkinsFan said:

 

Ribs was better than most people think. He was certainly a better option than Licht and I was one of a handful on ES who was angry when they yanked him in 2015 paloffs against the Packers. He was playing much better than Licht had before he went down, and the team was on a roll with Ribs at C. I thought they should have left him there and continued their hot streak. With the return of Licht our O just wasn't the same.

 

Is LeRibeus a desirable long-term answer on our OL? No. Is he better than many of the guys included in our OL competition at the moment? Yes.

 

I have no idea what you saw that the rest of us didn't.  He was getting trucked on a regular basis, worse than Lauvao. 

On 5/12/2018 at 8:10 AM, justice98 said:

 

Bruce: "Do you REALLY wanna play football?"

 

Player: "Uhh....I mean....I guess, ya know, it's whatever...."

 

Bruce (interjecting):  "Sold! Story checks out. Here's a contract. Welcome aboard."  

 

 

What a total fiasco this LG situation is turning out to be.  We could potentially be worse off at LG than last year which would be unbelievable. At least there's some time to fix it still.

 

While I agree their plan is faulty, I said so a while ago. But I can't blame Bruce for this. They took a flyer and signed a free agent, it's not like they burned a 2nd round pick on the guy.

[justice98]

8 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

While I agree their plan is faulty, I said so a while ago. But I can't blame Bruce for this. They took a flyer and signed a free agent, it's not like they burned a 2nd round pick on the guy.

 

For me, it's still the opportunity cost of the guy they maybe didnt try to get because they thought they had Welsh.  These seemingly little decisions still matter.

[Darrell Green Fan]

6 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

For me, it's still the opportunity cost of the guy they maybe didnt try to get because they thought they had Welsh.  These seemingly little decisions still matter.

 

Again we are talking about free agent rookies.  The odds of any of them being an upgrade over  bad options are very long.   But then again if they had drafted a guard to go along with a NT, RB etc I would have been convinced they passed better players to fill needs throughout the draft.  I just can't believe it's that hard to find a guard, literally the easiest position on a football team to fill. 

[bird_1972]

13 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Again we are talking about free agent rookies.  The odds of any of them being an upgrade over  bad options are very long.   But then again if they had drafted a guard to go along with a NT, RB etc I would have been convinced they passed better players to fill needs throughout the draft.  I just can't believe it's that hard to find a guard, literally the easiest position on a football team to fill. 

 

It's water under the bridge now, but would have much rather we taken a LG instead of Apke in the 4th round. 

 

Our draft would have been an "A" if we had done so, in my opinion.

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

It's water under the bridge now, but would have much rather we taken a LG instead of Apke in the 4th round. 

 

Our draft would have been an "A" if we had done so, in my opinion.

 

Oh no doubt, I still don't understand that pick.  You would think teams would know by now that game tape, not combine results, is what matters.   But then again most of us didn't like the Nicholson pick last year at this time too. 

[justice98]

18 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Again we are talking about free agent rookies.  The odds of any of them being an upgrade over  bad options are very long.   But then again if they had drafted a guard to go along with a NT, RB etc I would have been convinced they passed better players to fill needs throughout the draft.  I just can't believe it's that hard to find a guard, literally the easiest position on a football team to fill. 

 

But they need a starter and backups at G.  I mean, our top backup OL is Ty Nsekhe and he was an UDFA.  Yes, the odds are long, but there's a reason there's a mad dash for them after the draft.

[SkinsGuy]

5 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

It's water under the bridge now, but would have much rather we taken a LG instead of Apke in the 4th round. 

 

Our draft would have been an "A" if we had done so, in my opinion.

 

A lot of analysts did give the Redskins draft  and "A", even with drafting Apke.

 

Well, and " A-" anyway.  

[bird_1972]

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Oh no doubt, I still don't understand that pick.  You would think teams would know by now that game tape, not combine results, is what matters.   But then again most of us didn't like the Nicholson pick last year at this time too. 

 

Honestly, I feel that the best FOs exercise restraint when evaluating combine results. Like the stock market, the press hypes guys at the combine based on physical tests that don't translate to success on the field. Like you said, game tape should honestly be the default for player evaluation with combine really only disqualifying players if they are >2 standard deviations off the mean (in other words, it disqualifies players rather than increases their stock).

3 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

A lot of analysts did give the Redskins draft  and "A", even with drafting Apke.

 

Well, and " A-" anyway.  

 

I know.

 

However, I respectfully disagree. He was a reach and now we are exposed because we have no starter at LG other than Lavau. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I just want to point out that Chris Chester, who was basically ridiculed here and celebrated when he left town, was the starting LG for the Falcons when they reached and took a 78 point lead in the SB.  

 

He really wasn't any better in Atlanta than he was here.  

 

My point: You don't need a great LG to have a great offense, if the rest of it is working.  The Falcons could run and pass the ball, and had a historically productive offense.

 

I think they're going to pick up another guy to compete with the guys they have at some point.  I don't think they should move Ty to LG. I think they need health at tackle, with all three top tackles coming off of surgery.

 

Whoever plays LG for us will mostly be working double-teams with the center, lined up next to Trent, and Scherff doesn't need a lot of help on the other side.  

 

Callahan/Gruden should be able to cover up for an average LG.  The problem will be if the LT, C are also hurt and the replacements are average or worse, in which case the LG would be exposed.  But in that scenario, you're kinda done anyway.  

 

I was much more worried last off-season when the plan was Grant and Doctson as starting outside WRs.  That was so obviously dumb it was criminal.  

This isn't that.  This is, we don't want to spend money or resources on probably the least important position on the field, and we'll figure it out.  I can live with that, at least for now.  

 

It's bad luck about Arie.  

[SkinsGuy]

1 minute ago, bird_1972 said:

I know.

 

However, I respectfully disagree. He was a reach and now we are exposed because we have no starter at LG other than Lavau. 

 

Well, there is no way they could know Arie was going to get hurt. Anymore than they could know that Welsh was suddenly going to decide he didn't want a football career.

 

Though I doubt the Redskins were ever counting on Welsh for anything, being an UDFA and all. So now they have to go with a new plan, and I don't  think it will be start Lauvao, cross their fingers, and hope for the best.   

 

It's only the middle of May. The Redskins have time to work this out.

[bird_1972]

1 minute ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Well, there is no way they could know Arie was going to get hurt. Anymore than they could know that Welsh was suddenly going to decide he didn't want a football career.

 

Though I doubt the Redskins were ever counting on Welsh for anything, being an UDFA and all. So now they have to go with a new plan, and I don't  think it will be start Lauvao, cross their fingers, and hope for the best.   

 

It's only the middle of May. The Redskins have time to work this out.

 

Yeah, good point. 

 

I'm hoping some guard depth becomes available as teams trim their rosters. I know we won't get a top shelf starter but if we can have a mid-range guy or two to compete, I'd be happy. 

 

Just as long as we don't trade any draft picks for anyone. That's a bridge too far.

[Darrell Green Fan]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I just want to point out that Chris Chester, who was basically ridiculed here and celebrated when he left town, was the starting LG for the Falcons when they reached and took a 78 point lead in the SB.  

 

He really wasn't any better in Atlanta than he was here.  

 

My point: You don't need a great LG to have a great offense, if the rest of it is working.  The Falcons could run and pass the ball, and had a historically productive offense.

 

I think they're going to pick up another guy to compete with the guys they have at some point.  I don't think they should move Ty to LG. I think they need health at tackle, with all three top tackles coming off of surgery.

 

Whoever plays LG for us will mostly be working double-teams with the center, lined up next to Trent, and Scherff doesn't need a lot of help on the other side.  

 

Callahan/Gruden should be able to cover up for an average LG.  The problem will be if the LT, C are also hurt and the replacements are average or worse, in which case the LG would be exposed.  But in that scenario, you're kinda done anyway.  

 

I was much more worried last off-season when the plan was Grant and Doctson as starting outside WRs.  That was so obviously dumb it was criminal.  

This isn't that.  This is, we don't want to spend money or resources on probably the least important position on the field, and we'll figure it out.  I can live with that, at least for now.  

 

It's bad luck about Arie.  

 

I was in total agreement, until I read "average LG". We don't anything close to an average LG. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I was in total agreement, until I read "average LG". We don't anything close to an average LG. 

SL is average. He gets a lot of crap on here, but he's average.  

 

The biggest problem is that he's always hurt.  But when he's available, he's average.