Going Commando Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 And if we find that there were sympathizers in law enforcement that facilitated the coup attempt, they must be tried for treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 58 minutes ago, goskins10 said: I do not feel sorry for her or anyone who falls for this type of cultish ignorance. They are weak minded and stupid. No one forced her to be part of that ignorance. Now anyone forced to participate, OK, I feel sorry for them. Like the people taken to compounds by spouses or parents or other and forcibly not allowed to leave. But that's not what this is. She made the decision to go there. She made the decision to breach the US Capitol. They are lucky they didn't all get shot. In fact do we know who shot her? Seems odd Capitol Police would shoot one person and then no one else shoot. Typically once you open that box all hell breaks loose. Do we know for sure it wasn't self inflicted by a protestors gun accidentally going off? Either way, it was her choice to be there. I do not wish harm to anyone. But I also do not feel a bit sorry it they get hurt due to their own poor choices. I do agree to stop it you need to cut off the head of the snake. So trump needs to be dealt with. Hopefully the multiple lawsuits from NY will take their bit of flesh (not literally). But feel sorry for the followers? Not a single bit. Will lose no sleep over what happens to them. Oh yeah, she somehow deserved what she got. I'm just not gonna judge people mistakes when they're doing this because of lies. It's one thing to do something that you know it's wrong and it's another to do something that you think is right because you were lied to. Now, I have to disagree on those NY lawsuits. What you need here is to trial people for what they've done, not doing it Al Capone's style. They asked for violence and insurrection, you have to get them all for this. If you trial them for everything else, you're not cutting the head of it. You're reinforcing them allowing them to be martyrs. Grab everyone, even congressman and senators that backed this thing. Around 99% of them will cover in fear at this moment and admit they lied all the way. You won't get that from Trump and family, because they're stupid, so you can axe them strongly and firmly for terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: And if we find that there were sympathizers in law enforcement that facilitated the coup attempt, they must be tried for treason. If we find? There is video of capitol officers escorting these folks through the doors and taking selfies. I have zero doubts that part of what caused this to go bad, was not just the lack of manpower, but some of the officers allowing it to happen. And I must add that this is what happens when the dems allow Trump and his gang exclusive rights to 'law and order', 'back the blue', etc. I fully expect to take heat for this comment, that "No, they don't" and we'll just have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: If we find? There is video of capitol officers escorting these folks through the doors and taking selfies. I have zero doubts that part of what caused this to go bad, was not just the lack of manpower, but some of the officers allowing it to happen. Hard to remove these officers. They will maybe be suspended for a week, and that's it. There needs to be some reform. If I had to guess, there will be no reform, and these officers will keep taking sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: If we find? There is video of capitol officers escorting these folks through the doors and taking selfies. I have zero doubts that part of what caused this to go bad, was not just the lack of manpower, but some of the officers allowing it to happen. Capitol Hill police and every other organization tasked with security needs to conduct a thorough inquiry of every one of its officers on duty yesterday to see if any have ties to any right-wing organizations or participate in online forums with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Trump, Rudy and his enablers in Congress must be held accountable so something like this never happens again. I'm outraged at the lack of outrage. Impeach this lunatic again and expel or censure his enablers. Anything short of this would be a grave mistake IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said: Maybe I need to go back through our terrorism laws but we need to have a serious look at how we charge people. Whether the riots last year or the shocking events yesterday. We need to crush these extremists whether it’s wacko proud boys/patriots or the ones hijacking BLM rallies. Whether it’s rioting or a damn coup in this case. Across the board we need to start dropping the hammer. We need to across the board define if you do this no matter the motive or reason it is terrorism. You will treated like a terrorist on the spot and in court. Can't go into depth right now. But I'l going to represent my client Mr. Satan, here, and resurrect an argument I made decades ago, when discussing what should be done with Timmothy McVeigh, when I was living in Oklahoma City. The short version was that to me, the difference between prosecuting someone for terrorism or (in McVeigh's case) felony murder, was having a political motive. And while I'm aware that there are crimes in which motive is a considering factor (such as the different degrees of murder), that having a political motive is a constitutionally protected right. My argument at the rime was that I thought the correct way of dealing with McVeigh was to haul him into the county courthouse, and prosecute him for felony murder. A law which has already been ruled constitutional, and which does not care about his motive. (And therefore the trial doesn't have to care about whatever cause he wants to publicize.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said: Maybe I need to go back through our terrorism laws but we need to have a serious look at how we charge people. Whether the riots last year or the shocking events yesterday. We need to crush these extremists whether it’s wacko proud boys/patriots or the ones hijacking BLM rallies. Whether it’s rioting or a damn coup in this case. Across the board we need to start dropping the hammer. We need to across the board define if you do this no matter the motive or reason it is terrorism. You will treated like a terrorist on the spot and in court. Ex-FBI was on yesterday saying we don’t have a domestic terrorism law (which I’m astounded by, personally) and that if these were foreigners it would absolutely meet the terms of international terrorism (no surprise there). Then again, I guess that’s where sedition and treason come into play... This was just sooo damn close to turning into a bloodbath. One or two incidents - someone sheltering in place being dragged into the hallways and beaten - and it could have been a mass casualty event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, skinny21 said: Ex-FBI was on yesterday saying we don’t have a domestic terrorism law (which I’m astounded by, personally) and that if these were foreigners it would absolutely meet the terms of international terrorism (no surprise there). I was under the impression that that's what McVeigh was executed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: There is video of capitol officers escorting these folks through the doors and taking selfies. I have zero doubts that part of what caused this to go bad, was not just the lack of manpower, but some of the officers allowing it to happen. There needs to be an investigation to determine any wrongdoing by police yesterday. I'm not going to condemn them based only on social media posts. But it's a starting point for investigation. And I think complicity in law enforcement might go beyond the officers on the ground. I think it could be at a command level given that law enforcement experts from other countries have said that protocols for managing this kind of protest were not followed. Why they weren't needs to be investigated. We can not have traitors in any position in law enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Larry said: I was under the impression that that's what McVeigh was executed for. 15 counts of murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 There was a guy with a couple dozen zip ties in his hand. They were prepared to take Congress hostage. Own your trash proudly, Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoyler23 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 It was a matter of luck that only one person died. There were explosive devices. Someone had zip ties. Some had weapons. It really just took one true sociopath cult member with the right weaponry and it would have been really, catastrophically ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 There is a reason being a Nazi in Germany is illegal, I don't know how to implement it but we need to do something or this country WILL fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, Wildbunny said: Oh yeah, she somehow deserved what she got. I'm just not gonna judge people mistakes when they're doing this because of lies. It's one thing to do something that you know it's wrong and it's another to do something that you think is right because you were lied to. If you are not smart enough to see through the lie - sorry you get what you get. 5 minutes ago, Wildbunny said: Now, I have to disagree on those NY lawsuits. What you need here is to trial people for what they've done, not doing it Al Capone's style. They asked for violence and insurrection, you have to get them all for this. If you trial them for everything else, you're not cutting the head of it. You're reinforcing them allowing them to be martyrs. Grab everyone, even congressman and senators that backed this thing. Around 99% of them will cover in fear at this moment and admit they lied all the way. You won't get that from Trump and family, because they're stupid, so you can axe them strongly and firmly for terrorism. I am not following you here.(Not sure what you mean by Al Copone style. There are several open lawsuits in NY including rape, tax evasion and many others that are open cases in NY. He needs to be prosecuted for each of those, if for no other reason he cannot be pardoned at the federal level. Whatever gets him in jail is fine with me. I will let the FBI and others decide how and what to charge who with. They have started an investigation. But if the other lawsuits - valid lawsuits get him in jail or ruin his world and life, then I am fine with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said: There needs to be an investigation to determine any wrongdoing by police yesterday. I'm not going to condemn them based only on social media posts. But it's a starting point for investigation. And I think complicity in law enforcement might go beyond the officers on the ground. I think it could be at a command level given that law enforcement experts from other countries have said that protocols for managing this kind of protest were not followed. Why they weren't needs to be investigated. We can not have traitors in any position in law enforcement. Agreed 100%. There is no doubt that at best there was mixed messaging from leadership or what happened yesterday doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoyler23 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, skinsmarydu said: My best friend's "good morning" will absolutely NEVER be answered again. I will not abide. If you voted for what happened yesterday, you're out of my world. Yea, I unfriended a few very tangential people in my life who support the President. Just not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmirOfShmo Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Aren't people who participate in a crime guilty of murder if somebody (friend or foe) dies during the crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Larry said: Can't go into depth right now. But I'l going to represent my client Mr. Satan, here, and resurrect an argument I made decades ago, when discussing what should be done with Timmothy McVeigh, when I was living in Oklahoma City. The short version was that to me, the difference between prosecuting someone for terrorism or (in McVeigh's case) felony murder, was having a political motive. And while I'm aware that there are crimes in which motive is a considering factor (such as the different degrees of murder), that having a political motive is a constitutionally protected right. My argument at the rime was that I thought the correct way of dealing with McVeigh was to haul him into the county courthouse, and prosecute him for felony murder. A law which has already been ruled constitutional, and which does not care about his motive. (And therefore the trial doesn't have to care about whatever cause he wants to publicize.) Definitely see where you are coming from. Obviously we can’t charge felony murder attempts to any of these folks yesterday unless they find people drew lethal weapon on people which they very well may. I think thugs that ambushed the capitol or the ones that hijacked the rallies last year need to have the absolute book thrown at them. Make a example of those people by labeling them terrorists. Make the groups call out their extremists and if they refuse label the group extremists and treat them as such. I know it sounds harsh but that’s how you stop this anarchy stuff. I’m in full favor of dropping hammers all this vigilante BS. If you facilitated or participated in the violence charge them with domestic terrorism. If you aided in this particular case in any way you should be tried for treason. Enough is enough with all extremists. Bring the hammer down on all these fools. If the person is attacking people, places, and inspiring fear they to need be charged for what they are inspiring. Terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 49 minutes ago, redskins59 said: He needs to be impeached and removed. If you are impeached amd removed, you are barred from running for office. If this does not happen, Trump may run again. What if he beats Biden? He has probably learned a few authoritarian lessons. I can't imagine any President surviving what happened yesterday. But we are discussing Teflon Don. Do you guys actually think he has any political future at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, PCS said: Nearly 4:30 a.m. here and I have to be at work at 5. I get go in and be surrounded by Trumpers who will be coming up with all kinds of bull****. It's going to be a practice in patience today I think. Several lines from Airplane come to mind right now. Sigh. I really wanna reach out to conservative work roomie and ask him what he thinks but we have been forbidden to talk politics since the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, TheDoyler23 said: Yea, I unfriended a few very tangential people in my life who support the President. Just not worth it. She's executor of my ****. It's going to take a lawyer and a bunch of nonsense, but she can't be in charge of what happens when I'm gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, EmirOfShmo said: Aren't people who participate in a crime guilty of murder if somebody (friend or foe) dies during the crime? Yep. Felony murder. Participation in any felony, in which a person dies, is murder one. Meaning for example, that every person who trespassed in that building is guilty. (I'm assuming forcing your way in is a felony.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 19 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: DC needs to conduct a thorough inquiry of every one of its officers on duty yesterday to see if any have ties to any right-wing organizations or participate in online forums with them. Just to be clear, DC does not have jurisdiction over the Capitol Hill Police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, goskins10 said: I am not following you here.(Not sure what you mean by Al Copone style. There are several open lawsuits in NY including rape, tax evasion and many others that are open cases in NY. He needs to be prosecuted for each of those, if for no other reason he cannot be pardoned at the federal level. Whatever gets him in jail is fine with me. I will let the FBI and others decide how and what to charge who with. They have started an investigation. But if the other lawsuits - valid lawsuits get him in jail or ruin his world and life, then I am fine with that. Al Capone got caught for financial reason. But he got away with everything linked to murders and mafia stuff. Financial stuff is not what got the capitole raided yesterday. And you can also have it both ways so, show no mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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