Going Commando Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Dan T. said: Just to be clear, DC does not have jurisdiction over the Capitol Hill Police. Who does? We are seeing now the problem with giving the president jurisdiction over himself. DC needs statehood. That couldn't be more clear after yesterday. They need the power to defend their city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Who does? We are seeing now the problem with giving the president jurisdiction over himself. DC needs statehood. That couldn't be more clear after yesterday. They need the power to defend their city. Bowser making that case right now. Why is this woman not on the national radar? She seems on point, no nonsense and sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry.Randolphe Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Llevron said: I dont understand what the other police in this video were doing. The ones with the bigger guns, just watching all this happen. Who were those people? Why where they there and doing nothing? They literally had zero control of the situation. I really am confused about what im seeing here. This was exactly my reaction. Why was everyone so calm around the police? Why were the police so calm with the anarchists? This isn't normal. They're acting like ****ing friends they see at the BBQ after church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Barry.Randolphe said: This was exactly my reaction. Why was everyone so calm around the police? Why were the police so calm with the anarchists? This isn't normal. They're acting like ****ing friends they see at the BBQ after church I think what's bothering me the most is all of this went down while Pence was in the building. How in the world did the Secret Service allow those fools to wreck havoc while the VP was around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, goskins10 said: I do not feel sorry for her or anyone who falls for this type of cultish ignorance. They are weak minded and stupid. For sure... being "weak minded" should carry a death sentence. I'm guessing you also support the repeal of the ADA right? Those people are "weak bodied" and if they can't get into the bank, tough. Find a workaround, weaklings. People with intellectual disabilities or the mentally ill on death row? Execute them. They're "weak minded" too, right? To be fair, you're far from the only person to express this kind of disturbing sentiment, and I've been bothered by it for a while. NOBODY chooses to be stupid or misled. NOBODY. Every person is the hero of his or her own story. That's not even getting into the tribalism that's buried deep in EVERYONE's psyche, and which often overrides rational thought. Thinking it's just "them" only prevents self-reflection which is the only way of avoiding falling into that trap. It's the same thought process that leads to the stigmatization of mental illness... no one bats an eye if a woman has cancer and needs treatment, but bipolar disorder? Get control of yourself lady! And so while, yes, there are absolutely despicable people worthy of every bit of disdain that are smart enough to know better and choose intentionally to get involved for personal gain, and yes, regardless of all of this laws need to be enforced and consequences applied for the good of society, we're all going to be in a pretty bleak place as a society if we follow this line of thinking. Empathy is essential, and is not the same as excusing a person from consequences. I'll even give a practical example. I was watching an excellent documentary on fake news a while back, and they covered the guy who took an assault rifle into Comet Ping Pong. He legitimately believed there was a child prostitution ring in that business' basement, and that the police were covering it up because of powerful people pulling strings. He had every positive intention. He didn't choose to be misled, or mentally ill (if he was), or whatever led him to that place. He thought he was doing the right thing... saving children. When he realized there was nothing in the basement, he was confused and devastated, and he immediately and peacefully gave himself up to police. Should he have been sent to jail? Yes. Unless he actually qualified for the insanity defense, he had to go to jail for the good of society. If, however, you can't feel sorry for him, have empathy for him, see him as a victim... you're just making the situation worse. Tribalism is a powerful force, as are mental illnesses, and yes, stupidity. Side note: this is also why I'd personally be careful about ending relationships over this, but obviously that's a more personal judgement that falls outside the good of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, spjunkies said: I think what's bothering me the most is all of this went down while Pence was in the building. How in the world did the Secret Service allow those fools to wreck havoc while the VP was around? The police were outnumbered completely. I guess they could have just start spraying but this could have turned into a bloodbath for the invaders and cops. The capitol building would have turned into a bloody scene from Call of Duty. There should have been riot police ready at the capitol. Thousands. Hell the national guard. Capitol police were not equipped for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 19 minutes ago, Llevron said: I dont understand what the other police in this video were doing. The ones with the bigger guns, just watching all this happen. Who were those people? Why where they there and doing nothing? They literally had zero control of the situation. I really am confused about what im seeing here. this is impossible to know without being familiar with the training and the orders that were give. One possibility is that that there were LEO’s there that were sympathizers with the protestors. And indeed we have evidence that this was the case to at least some degree. another plausible explanation: the people in the hallway we’re instructed to keep the peace. To be there in case someone starts shooting, or other physical violence begins, but to otherwise simply be a presence. And that the people on the other side of the door were under different orders - to shoot anyone that breaches the doorway. adding to the complexity: these are all members of different agencies trying to work together during a crisis that was clearly larger in scale and more willing to push the limits than was anticipated. different orders. Different obligations. Communication issues. Etc. In fact my gut is the man who fired the shot works for a different agency than the Capitol police. Maybe the secret service? He’s in a suite. He’s on the other side of the door. He’s carrying a basic service pistol. The ones in the hall were in riot gear, with Capitol police branding, and with rifles. We saw an element of this with BLM. Where orders were given to try to minimize awful confrontations that become fodder for furthering social strife. As we saw with BLM, as we see here, and as we see with Islamic extremism, that fodder is used to further recruit, brainwashed and incite violence for their goal/mission. I’m not trying to minimize all the concerns about how the police acted yesterday. I share in the concerns. Just offering a plausible explanation that suggests the issues isn’t quite clear cut, and our concerns may not need to be as grave as we fear they may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said: The police were outnumbered completely. I guess they could have just start spraying but this could have turned into a bloodbath for the invaders and cops. The capitol building would have turned into a bloody scene from Call of Duty. There should have been riot police ready at the capitol. Thousands. Hell the national guard. Capitol police were not equipped for this. I agree, probably for the best that lethal force wasn't used across the board. It's just insane that they invaded a space with so many high level members of the government. Michelle Obama came to speak at my job back in 2011 and you couldn't get near the building without authorization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, ClaytoAli said: Fox News guest just called for Judy Ruliani to be disbarred for inciting an insurrection. Just for the sake of comparison-- Bill Clinton got disbarred for lying about a beej EDIT: Removed pic in my quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, spjunkies said: I agree, probably for the best that lethal force wasn't used across the board. It's just insane that they invaded a space with so many high level members of the government. Michelle Obama came to speak at my job back in 2011 and you couldn't get near the building without authorization. Yeah, in retrospect we should all be pretty thankful yesterday wasn’t a bloodbath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, techboy said: Side note: this is also why I'd personally be careful about ending relationships over this, but obviously that's a more personal judgement that falls outside the good of society. I'm with you on this. It cannot be overstated just how much a large percentage of Trumpers deep down believe the garbage they've been sold for a long, long time. They legitimately believe all the propaganda. I have also likened it to mental illness. In some ways, it's also an addiction. Addicted to everything that is Trumpism via social media. They are overwhelmed with it and the feeling that they are fighting for the greater good, it's addictive. We can sit here and say 'how can they be so stupid?' and 'do some research' all we want, but they've been led to believe via brainwashing that they can't trust the mainstream media. I say all that not to excuse their actions and without a doubt, there are folks attracted to Trumpism because they are racist, sexist, etc., but the bottom line is a large portion of these folks have been warped and legitimately don't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said: I can't imagine any President surviving what happened yesterday. But we are discussing Teflon Don. Do you guys actually think he has any political future at all? He will be the republican nominee in 2024 if he isn't dead or in jail. He won't be in jail so I guess it's just a matter of death. but yes, he has a political future when you can hold 74 million americans in the palm of your conspiracy riddled hand and wield them like a sword against democracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Larry said: I was under the impression that that's what McVeigh was executed for. Looking into it, it seems there is a domestic terrorism law, so I’m not sure what he was referring to, or if I misheard. He’s very professional and knowledgeable, so I’m curious where the disconnect comes in. Thanks for pointing this out - I’d usually check on this type of thing myself before sharing... should have done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said: The police were outnumbered completely. I guess they could have just start spraying but this could have turned into a bloodbath for the invaders and cops. The capitol building would have turned into a bloody scene from Call of Duty. There should have been riot police ready at the capitol. Thousands. Hell the national guard. Capitol police were not equipped for this. Defense secretary denied the request for national guards presence to start with. It wasn’t until well after these terrorists invaded the Capitol that they were called in. This was an attempt coup by way of allowing an insurrection to go un-impeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 I've been thinking about ways where you might be able to convince people to drop this voter fraud charade, and I thought of something along the lines of how kids have had to "write sentences" for punishment in the past. So take a county like mine, Fairfax, which has over 1 Million people in it. We'll conservatively say 500,000 voted, which might be low since this is a pretty politically engaged area. Take 100 of these idiots and arrest them. Give them a gigantic printout of the names of all 1 million people living in the county (no addresses or how they voted or anything) and then another giant printout of the names of people who voted. Start matching them up with each other. Let us know when you're done, then you're free. Forces each one of them to find 5,000 matches if the work is split evenly. Make a mistake or challenge someone and you're proven wrong and you have to start over. That might keep them busy for awhile. Sure, they'd be getting fed and housed on the taxpayer dime until they were done, but I'm pretty sure they'd shut the **** up about it afterwards if they knew the risk was being assigned to another county to do it all over again. Shoot, we should institute this in every state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 35 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Who does? (Assume the question is who has jurisdiction over the capitol police.) Congress does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Forehead said: I've been thinking about ways where you might be able to convince people to drop this voter fraud charade, and I thought of something along the lines of how kids have had to "write sentences" for punishment in the past. So take a county like mine, Fairfax, which has over 1 Million people in it. We'll conservatively say 500,000 voted, which might be low since this is a pretty politically engaged area. Take 100 of these idiots and arrest them. Give them a gigantic printout of the names of all 1 million people living in the county (no addresses or how they voted or anything) and then another giant printout of the names of people who voted. Start matching them up with each other. Let us know when you're done, then you're free. Forces each one of them to find 5,000 matches if the work is split evenly. Make a mistake or challenge someone and you're proven wrong and you have to start over. That might keep them busy for awhile. Sure, they'd be getting fed and housed on the taxpayer dime until they were done, but I'm pretty sure they'd shut the **** up about it afterwards if they knew the risk was being assigned to another county to do it all over again. Shoot, we should institute this in every state. Modern problems require modern solutions. Let's still flog them while they are doing their matching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Larry said: Any felony in which someone died. The classic example is, if there's a bank robbery, and one of the robbers gets shot, the guy who was driving the getaway car is guilty. Even though he had no weapon, and never set foot in the bank. I understand your example. But they are being charged with murder because a murder happened. In this case the felony and the shooting were 2 different incidents. There was no murder so how can there be a murder charge of any kind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Modern problems require modern solutions. Let's still flog them while they are doing their matching... Current countries with flogging: Indonesia, Iran, Sudan and Maldives. The latter country, interestingly, has a habit of flogging young women who have been raped. ...just sayin...maybe shouldn't be our target peer group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Florgon79 said: Defense secretary denied the request for national guards presence to start with. It wasn’t until well after these terrorists invaded the Capitol that they were called in. This was an attempt coup by way of allowing an insurrection to go un-impeded. There were a lot of mistakes made yesterday. I’m not gonna assume there was some inside motive currently. I think this comes down to pure incompetence and stupid DC laws that didn’t allow for protection. I think we can all agree there’s no way it should have been simply Capitol police versus thousands of psychos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Florgon79 said: Defense secretary denied the request for national guards presence to start with. It wasn’t until well after these terrorists invaded the Capitol that they were called in. This was an attempt coup by way of allowing an insurrection to go un-impeded. This not a crazy or illegitimate thought. at all. I still think there are other plausible explanations. and just because an explanation is plausible, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a reason to be outraged at the result. Or that someone(s) shouldn’t be held accountable for their decision making. sometimes good people make bad decisions. But being held accountable for your decisions is the territory of the job you accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 We have laws. Start using them. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality.html#:~:text=349 (a) (4),outside the United States (sec.&text=conviction for an act of,of the United States (Sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Anyone who stepped foot in the Capitol yesterday should be tried as terrorists and enemy combatants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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