2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Voice_of_Reason]

22 minutes ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

 

REMEMBER OSAKA!!! 

[ixcuincle]

Terry McLaurin cereal available locally

 

[The Rook]

1 hour ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

 

REMEMBER OSAKA!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[lovemaskins]

1 hour ago, ixcuincle said:

Terry McLaurin cereal available locally

 

Not sure how he catches everything with 8 fingers… 🧐

[Skinsinparadise]

One of the best guys forgetting whom also mention him as a surprise cut. More buzz about Daniels being a cut. I bet neither gets cut because of their draft status 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

One of the best guys forgetting whom also mention him as a surprise cut. More buzz about Daniels being a cut. I bet neither gets cut because of their draft status 

 

 

I’d be amazed if they cut a 4th round pick in Daniels. Henry was 5th round and I agree even that draft status protects them. 
 

Cutting your 4th and 5th round picks before their first season is the kind of thing that gets people fired. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I’d be amazed if they cut a 4th round pick in Daniels. Henry was 5th round and I agree even that draft status protects them. 
 

Cutting your 4th and 5th round picks before their first season is the kind of thing that gets people fired. 

Agree. Politics alone I think would protect their status. I’d be shocked if either doesn’t make the team 

[redskinss]

41 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Cutting your 4th and 5th round picks before their first season is the kind of thing that gets people fired. 

If you have a stacked roster and are perennial contenders you can get away with it but we definitely do not fall into that category. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Wrong thread 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KillBill26]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

I’d be amazed if they cut a 4th round pick in Daniels. Henry was 5th round and I agree even that draft status protects them. 
 

Cutting your 4th and 5th round picks before their first season is the kind of thing that gets people fired. 

And they traded up to get Henry, I don't see them giving up on him just yet.  I think both get a full season with us.  Maybe an IR stint for a minor injury to keep them in the fold.

[Searchingforaqb]

Watching the Browns game and the O line is so ugly

Since Scherff was taken 5th in 2015, we've only drafted 3 O linemen in the first 3 rounds (Geron Christian, Cosmi and Stromberg)

 

and we haven't exactly been spending money on good FA linemen 

 

This is negligence

[Hooper]

Just now, Searchingforaqb said:

Watching the Browns game and the O line is so ugly

Since Scherff was taken 5th in 2015, we've only drafted 3 O linemen in the first 3 rounds (Geron Christian, Cosmi and Stromberg)

 

and we haven't exactly been spending money on good FA linemen 

 

This is negligence

We have Ron and like three other people who have been GMs in the front office.

 

What are they doing all day? It's mind-boggling.

 

"Hey, Ron. While you're doing me a favor taking Eric off my hands, can you overpay for Wylie? He's a good dude." 

 

"Sure thing, Andy!"

[mhd24]

Too bad, that was almost an insane catch.

[Koolblue13]

Remember when I said that Wylie is absolute trash and posted his garbage from the SB and everyone told me I was over reacting because I'm an Eagles fan?

 

I'll gladly take my apologies tomorrow morning.

 

Wylie blows. 

[moondog]

3 hours ago, Hooper said:

We have Ron and like three other people who have been GMs in the front office.

 

What are they doing all day? It's mind-boggling.

 

"Hey, Ron. While you're doing me a favor taking Eric off my hands, can you overpay for Wylie? He's a good dude." 

 

"Sure thing, Andy!"

Lol I’d still take Wylie over McNabb. 

[method man]

They may just have to start Lucas at RT and play Wylie at LG. Leno/Wylie/Gates/Cosmi/Lucas is your best 5. The scary thing is there is no tackle depth behind Lucas - you'd have to move either Cosmi or Wylie to tackle if Lucas were to get hurt.

[justice98]

The first unit OL lived down to expectations.  They're singlehandedly gonna cost Ron AND Bienemy their jobs after the season.  All this talk about Bienemy's coaching style won't matter cuz they're gonna torpedo the offense and nobody's gonna want him back.

[abdcskins]

So what I am hearing is the offensive line sucks?  Seems to be a constant issue with this team.

[KDawg]

Bad would be an upgrade for the way Wylie played. He was awful.

 

Our whole OL was slow and plodding. 
 

I came away from the game with the following positives and negatives:

 

Positives:

-Howell is legit, Brissett is a damn good 2. 

-Dotson is special

-I like our RBs

-Secondary played well (they didn’t look dominant, but they looked good starters wise and our safety and corner depth)

-DL depth is solid

-Pringle is electric.

-Special shout-out to Christian Holmes who may have been the D player of the game. 

 

Negatives:

-The OL is as bad as advertised if not worse. It wasn’t just one guy, either. It was most of them. Leno and Gates were… okay? Cosmi was better in the run than the pass. But LG and RT looked lost. The entire OL looked slow and like they’ve never seen a blitz. I thought Wylie’s upside was his athleticism. But if that is healthy Wylie we need to start Lucas.

 

-Chase Young got reach blocked early and just stayed velcroed to it. Next play he misses a sack. It’s early, but that matched his play from last season. Hopefully it was just jitters.

 

-We had LBs on the field. They didn’t do anything… but they were there. 
 

I’m sure I missed some stuff with my thoughts but these are things that I remember this AM.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Bad would be an upgrade for the way Wylie played. He was awful.

 

Our whole OL was slow and plodding. 
 

I came away from the game with the following positives and negatives:

 

Positives:

-Howell is legit, Brissett is a damn good 2. 

-Dotson is special

-I like our RBs

-Secondary played well (they didn’t look dominant, but they looked good starters wise and our safety and corner depth)

-DL depth is solid

-Pringle is electric.

-Special shout-out to Christian Holmes who may have been the D player of the game. 

 

Negatives:

-The OL is as bad as advertised if not worse. It wasn’t just one guy, either. It was most of them. Leno and Gates were… okay? Cosmi was better in the run than the pass. But LG and RT looked lost. The entire OL looked slow and like they’ve never seen a blitz. I thought Wylie’s upside was his athleticism. But if that is healthy Wylie we need to start Lucas.

 

-Chase Young got reach blocked early and just stayed velcroed to it. Next play he misses a sack. It’s early, but that matched his play from last season. Hopefully it was just jitters.

 

-We had LBs on the field. They didn’t do anything… but they were there. 
 

I’m sure I missed some stuff with my thoughts but these are things that I remember this AM.

 

 

Good summary, my eyes were glued at times to Andre Jones, he flashed IMO. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 hours ago, MartinC said:

I’d be amazed if they cut a 4th round pick in Daniels. Henry was 5th round and I agree even that draft status protects them. 
 

Cutting your 4th and 5th round picks before their first season is the kind of thing that gets people fired. 

Cutting your 4th and 5th round picks should get someone fired.  
 

Keeping your 4th and 5th over better players and having a worse roster also gets people fired.

 

basically completely winding on picks 3-5 one way or the other gets you fired.  

40 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Our whole OL was slow and plodding. 

I wonder how much it will/can improve as they get more familiar with the scheme.  
 

How much is talent vs still thinking and not reacting.  
 

Probably some of both.

 

I also wonder how quickly the coaching staff comes to the conclusion the goofed and they start bringing guys in or looking for trades.  

[RandyHolt]

Cut your cords. Not keeping your best players based solely on a bad draft pick and trying to save face should get someone fired. Assuming the year is not a write off - but most teams play to win every year now. Its too easy to compete not to try every year. Shanahan I think it was used to preach you don't build your roster based on draft position. Now if a GM set out to develop someone knowing it would take 2 years and then give up 2 months into camp 1, yeah that's a paddlin'.

 

If a guy off the street turns out to be clearly better - the GM could get credit for finding THAT guy and keep his job.

Edited August 12, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Remember when I said that Wylie is absolute trash and posted his garbage from the SB and everyone told me I was over reacting because I'm an Eagles fan?

 

I'll gladly take my apologies tomorrow morning.

 

Wylie blows. 

 

Imagine if Garrett played laat night?  Yeah I was on the so s wagon and maybe a hair better track on the initial signing for him but the more I digested he sank with me and I even cited you as I became more sour on him saying you broke me down on him. 

 

The kicker was someone on this thread who I respect touting the signing, and even saying he's probably our best tackle period -- better than Leno.  So I spent two games watchiing him like i do any college prospect and talked about it here.  The dude gets beat too often my liking.  And its usually via counters on the inside just like last night.   As I mentioned after watching him, he comes off to me likely a better guard.  But at RT, "meh".

 

Granted its just a game.    I disagree with another good poster here when he suggests we and the media really don't understand what we are seeing when evaluating O lineman so media observations, PFF grades, etc mean nothing.  But like I told him, its not hard to see when an O lineman gets beat.  It's not that intricate.  Sometimes it indeed can be intricate to judge run blocking assignments, I granted that part of the point but judging whether you win on pass blocking -- nope IMO, its not hard.  We, the media and yes even PFF  do have some comprehension about what they are looking at as to whether an O lineman successfully pass protects or not.    

 

The only point I'll concede to to the optimists about the unit is its early, they can still improve.  That's true.  As I've said too many times.  Love this roster.  Hate the O line.  And I do believe that a bad O line can make a good roster look mediocre.  I believed in that theory way before Ron tested it here.  I talked about it plenty of times in the draft thread.  So its not me being a hater.  It's a philosophy I've been consistent on   It's something I used to especailly talk about the Giants post their SBs.  They were loaded for a span with weapons. Defense was decent but were bad. O line was central to that plot. 

 

That game with Wylie juxtaposed with Dawand playing for the Browns brings home, that Rivera may have screwed up for the 2nd year in a row at the O line.  There is more time, granted.   But Rivera has made a series of bad decisions over the years about this unit, and I predict that will end up costing him his job as it should. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Cutting your 4th and 5th round picks should get someone fired.  
 

Keeping your 4th and 5th over better players and having a worse roster also gets people fired.

 

basically completely winding on picks 3-5 one way or the other gets you fired.  

I wonder how much it will/can improve as they get more familiar with the scheme.  
 

How much is talent vs still thinking and not reacting.  
 

Probably some of both.

 

I also wonder how quickly the coaching staff comes to the conclusion the goofed and they start bringing guys in or looking for trades.  

 

I know we both like Logan Paulsen but it feels like Rivera got to him as to being positive.  As I mentioned, Keim and company (I think it was Keim or Finlay, forgot which one) let out that they learned Rivera and the O line were aware of the negative feedback they got from camp and they wanted to change that narrative and the coaches planned to give more positive reinforcement to buck up that unit.  I didn't think much of those comments until i saw Logan who works for the team really pump up the positiivty up a peg or two all of a sudden. 

 

So I don't fully trust Logan Paulsen anymore about his reports, I love the dude's takes and they are still detailed but I take his generalizations now with a grain of salt.  Lets take Wylie.  He taked not that long ago about Sweat owning him.  Then previously about the backup D lineman giving Wylie issues.  He talked in another podcast about wondering whether Wylie has the physicality from what he saw to handle power rushers.

 

Ok so race forward to recently.  He gently calls out Standig and Keim for their podcasts being negative on the O line (granted he did it very nicely) and suggests they are off.  Then Keim references in his own podcast or radio apperances forgetting which one that Paulsen explained to him that while Wylie isn't looking good in the one on ones, its more important that he's doing better in the 11 wit 11's where he feed off help and working in tandem with another O lineman.

 

Now lets take KJ Henry.  Haven't heard much positive about his camp.  So Paulsen is asked about him.  He goes he's having a good camp.  Then in the same narrative he admits that Andre Jones is having a better camp than Henry.  Then also says later Jones is really raw and he doesn't know if he makes the roster.  So Andre is having the better camp but looks really raw.  But KJ is also having a good camp.  If Jones is really raw and might not make the roster yet has been better than KJ -- how good of a camp could KJ really be having?

 

Stuff like that don't always add up to me.  And it seems to be something that's happened recently with him.  But don't get me wrong, I think he's awesome at what he does.  And if he is being purposely more positive because he was urged by Rivera, I get it, that's his boss, in his shoes I'd do the same.  

Edited August 12, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know we both like Logan Paulsen but it feels like Rivera got to him as to being positive.  As I mentioned, Keim and company (I think it was Keim or Finlay, forgot which one) let out that they learned Rivera and the O line were aware of the negative feedback they got from camp and they wanted to change that narrative and the coaches planned to give more positive reinforcement to buck up that unit.  I didn't think much of those comments until i saw Logan who works for the team really pump up the positiivty up a peg or two all of a sudden. 

 

So I don't fully trust Logan Paulsen anymore about his reports, I love the dude's takes and they are still detailed but I take his generalizations now with a grain of salt.  Lets take Wylie.  He taked not that long ago about Sweat owning him.  Then previously about the backup D lineman giving Wylie issues.  He talked in another podcast about wondering whether Wylie has the physicality from what he saw to handle power rushers.

 

Ok so race forward to recently.  He gently calls out Standig and Keim for their podcast being negative on the O line (granted he did it very nicely) and suggests they are off.  Then Keim references in his own podcast or radio apperances forgetting which one that Paulsen explained to him that while Wylie isn't looking good in the one on ones, its more important that he's doing better in the 11 wit 11's where he feed off help and working in tandem with another O lineman.

 

Now lets take KJ Henry.  Haven't heard much positive about his camp.  So Paulsen is asked about him.  He goes he's having a good camp.  Then in the same narrative he admits that Andre Jones is having a better camp than Henry.  Then also says later Jnones is really raw and he doesn't know if he makes the roster.  So Andre is having the better camp but is really raw.  But KJ is also having a good camp.  If Jones is really raw and might not make the roster yet has been better than KJ -- how good of a camp could KJ really be having?

All of that is fine.  And kindof irrelevant at this point.  
 

I wanted to wait to see it before jumping to a conclusion. 
 

Well, it’s still early but the results were bad.  So fine, I concede the point the folks watching practice were right and the OL hadn’t looked good.  I never questioned Kevin’s analysis. He did have one pod where he was more positive on the OL, but it was with Bram, who’s an employee of the team.  So, you have to take that with a grain of salt also. 
 

My question now is, can they build on last night’s performance or is that the best they are going to be all year? 
 

And are they going to do anything to bring in guys or switch positions (Lucas for Wylie?) or are they just going to sit pat and pray.  Prayer is not a strategy.

 

I think the next week with the joint practices  with the Ravens will be extremely illuminating.