All things defense

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

Everyone is to blame but only leaders will take responsibility and step up. We have 5 players starting a new position from last year. Collins, St, Juste, Davis, Fuller Slot, McCain. Everyone forgets we gave up 30 points to 4 of our first 5 opponents last year. We will see how it plays out

 

 

Last year: New scheme, new coaches, no real off season (Covid)

This year: Same scheme, same coaches, complete off season. No excuse.

[ThomasRoane]

11 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I don't think it matters what the scheme is with players on this defense doing what they're doing.  Coaching issues it may be, but also maybe, some of these players are just not coachable?

 

You should add Holcomb to that list.  Holcomb has zero vision.  He's athletic, but that doesn't matter if his footwork isn't setting up his body to move in the right direction.  I think Holcomb could function, but only in the most basic of assignments where he doesn't have to adapt.  1 read, that's it.

 

Last year, no OTA's and no preseason coaches had to simplify.  This year with full OTAs and Training Camp I wonder if maybe the coaches really got fancy with their schemes.  It sure seems like there's a lot of confusion.  The slowness to react is probably related to self-doubt about their assignments.  All too often we see two players jumping the same route.  Put your best 11 on the field.  Simplify.  Give a great scouting report.  Let the players hunt and kill.  Don't make them try to win a chess match.  Maybe next year.  But this year most of the players on Defense are young.  They're checker players.  See -> hunt -> kill.  Just knock the hell out of the ball carrier.  Right now, they're playing on their heels instead of their toes.  

[Wyvern]

Okay.... I'll be the lightning-rod.

 

Bottom line: Del Rio needs to press his defensive charges to either deliver, or be prepared to  sit down.  It's been such  sloppy play -- maybe too much emotion for a conservative defense.  So, maybe gamble more and get really aggressive, until the teams learns to play a high-pressure but organized system  defense.  For now, Del Rio needs to call more tight defenses, more press  man, and more blitzes -- that's seems to be the Team's basic nature. 

 

With a more aggressive, tight defensive game vs. the short pass over the middle, , the defensive front 4 will improve -- they are that good, that they can respond to a wake-up call.  Especially Chase Young who can definitely improve his game, and since  he knows it's time to do so.

 

Collins and Bostic are liabilities but they know they're fighting for their jobs.   Collins may not be able to hold out against the Coaches redefining his role to the run-stopping quasi- pass coverage linebacker which is the optimum role he's regressed to. (What a waste of cap space!) As for Bostic, he knows he's on the clock, playing-time wise, and I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up  a back-up by the mid-season bye. Biggest weak-spot in the defense, so someone's got to show up -- I think Davis might be able to fill the role. 

 

Fuller's got about 2 weeks to show he's still starter material -- or he's "history" or at least moved to special teams.  This guy was good once, so, properly motivated,  maybe he can hold off some PS-er from taking his job.

 

The other DBs seem to be as expected.  Biggest issue is free safety -- here again  moving Collins may help clarify things for the FS.  We need one or two defensive captains, especially in the back-field,  who understand the DB coverage play-scheme.  (Not sure Chase is the right guy for Captain.)

 

Prediction -- Washington is going to devastate Atlanta -- and this board will be fun to visit again.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Wyvern

[Malapropismic Depository]

4 hours ago, mojo said:

The difference is we played beat up teams with back up QBs when we’re ‘dominant’ last year.  Brady shredded us just like every QB we’ve faced this year.  If we faced Ben Dinucci every week, I bet our defense would be playing much better.

 

We beat Ben Roethlisberger, at a time when he was pretty hot, having won 11 in a row in 2020 prior to that game.

We beat them and we broke them. They were 11-0 before us. And 1-3 after us.

[Warhead36]

The regression of Kendall Fuller has been pretty remarkable. He was by all counts a pretty good CB last year. Its not like he's old either, dude is only 26. How is he suddenly so bad? It doesn't really make sense. We knew Collins and Bostic were liabilities but Fuller was supposed to be a strength for us as a slot CB and at the very least an average outside CB.

 

Sometimes in baseball when a hitter is in a slump you move him to a different spot in the batting order. So perhaps try Fuller at FS?

[ThomasRoane]

44 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The regression of Kendall Fuller has been pretty remarkable. He was by all counts a pretty good CB last year. Its not like he's old either, dude is only 26. How is he suddenly so bad? It doesn't really make sense. We knew Collins and Bostic were liabilities but Fuller was supposed to be a strength for us as a slot CB and at the very least an average outside CB.

 

Sometimes in baseball when a hitter is in a slump you move him to a different spot in the batting order. So perhaps try Fuller at FS?

 

Yeah, it's really strange.  Makes me wonder if maybe he has an injury that he's not made public.  He's getting beat right off the ball.  I think FS is the only place he could fit.  Even then, I'm wondering if he has the speed for that.  We know he has the smarts.  

[CTskin]

Personal theory here, but the only reason that makes sense for this conservative defense is that del rio figured the front 4 would be as disruptive, if not more, than last season. With the talent they possess, we shouldn’t need to blitz to cause pressure. 

 

Throw coaching and scheming out the window, just based on pure talent how does our (previously) Uber talented front 4 regress to the point that bad OLs dominate them? Something really doesn’t add up. It feels like the answer is either something for the conspiracy thread or TBs playoff blueprint is now utilized by all.

 

I knew last years #2 ranked D was a bit of smoke and mirrors, but not to the extent that  right now we’re arguably the worst in the league. In no stretch of games for any reason should a legitimately good defense perform like this.

 

the scarier thing is that we’re playing like this and we’re completely healthy. Someone please show me the light.

[Capsman]

1 hour ago, CTskin said:

Personal theory here, but the only reason that makes sense for this conservative defense is that del rio figured the front 4 would be as disruptive, if not more, than last season. With the talent they possess, we shouldn’t need to blitz to cause pressure. 

 

Throw coaching and scheming out the window, just based on pure talent how does our (previously) Uber talented front 4 regress to the point that bad OLs dominate them? Something really doesn’t add up. It feels like the answer is either something for the conspiracy thread or TBs playoff blueprint is now utilized by all.

 

I knew last years #2 ranked D was a bit of smoke and mirrors, but not to the extent that  right now we’re arguably the worst in the league. In no stretch of games for any reason should a legitimately good defense perform like this.

 

the scarier thing is that we’re playing like this and we’re completely healthy. Someone please show me the light.

This is my take as well and I think their assumption was misguided.  I did not think this d-line was that good last year in run defense or consistently pressuring the passer.  And watching Chase last year I’m not in the least bit surprised by what we are seeing this season.  Putting their eggs in one basket was a huge mistake. 

[Renegade7]

Its not like we've never seen a defense that relied heavily on its defensive line to protect the rest of the defense and lead the way for the whole team.  Giants did this recently and got two super bowls out of it.  I'm not suprised by the sophomore slump by Young, im more suprised by Sweat not playing well either.  This stuff looks fixable, but they are gonna run out of time fast to fix whats going on with the DEs this if they don't act fast.

[CTskin]

2 minutes ago, Capsman said:

This is my take as well and I think their assumption was misguided.  I did not think this d-line was that good last year in run defense or consistently pressuring the passer.  And watching Chase last year I’m not in the least bit surprised by what we are seeing this season.  Putting their eggs in one basket was a huge mistake. 

I don’t think I had quite as negative of a stance as you, but we agree about the miscalculation. I recall reading that del rio was going to change things up, but it seems he pulled the wrong lever.

 

We were all well aware that there were question marks peppered behind the front 4, but I bought into the front 4 being special. Bad on me so far. This D will continue to be awful if the front plays at this level.

 

they are the investment, they are the ones who need to carry this team.

[mojo]

3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

We beat Ben Roethlisberger, at a time when he was pretty hot, having won 11 in a row in 2020 prior to that game.

We beat them and we broke them. They were 11-0 before us. And 1-3 after us.

It could be argued they were on their way down when we played them.  They barely beat the Ben Dinucci led Cowboys a week or 2 prior and Ben got injured in that game as well.

[NoCalMike]

When we brought back Fuller did we keep him as a slot corner or did we try to elevate him to playing on the outside against better WRs?

 

I think the biggest frustration right now is that the defense isn't forcing opponents to be great.

All things considered, I do think Justin Herbert was pretty marvelous in Week 1. Dude was hitting a lot of passes and throwing them into tight spaces.  Coverage was pretty good on a lot of them and he threw it to where only the WR could make the catch.  Did he also find a lot of wide open players? Sure, and that hurt, but for the most part he proved why he has been getting the hype train going in the media.

 

Fast forward to Week 2 & 3 and you have Daniel Jones who has been a  mediocre QB since being drafted outside a small handful of games, 4 of which have been against this team, and Josh Allen who is already being heralded as the next generation of great QB's.   Our defense did little to nothing to force them into doing anything uncomfortable or outside the norm for an NFL caliber QB.

 

Great defenses still give up yards and points, however what they do is force the opposing QB to be great in order to win.  If our defense could have managed to play well enough that it forced Josh Allen to show us his full potential and he still went out and won?  Fine, hats off to him and the Bills, however it was downright silly how much of an easy time he had out there.

Edited September 29, 2021 by NoCalMike

[ThomasRoane]

11 hours ago, Capsman said:

This is my take as well and I think their assumption was misguided.  I did not think this d-line was that good last year in run defense or consistently pressuring the passer.  And watching Chase last year I’m not in the least bit surprised by what we are seeing this season.  Putting their eggs in one basket was a huge mistake. 

 

I remember watching Joe Burrow lay waste to Venable's defense from the 2nd quarter on in the National Championship game and telling my son that Washington needed to make a deal with the Bengals and go get him.  Last year, I thought maybe it could work out for us.  Chase Young finished strong; minus the Tampa game but I believe he was hurt.  Even if doubled, chipped, etc. he is not dominating like an Aaron Donald.  Or even a Bosa or TJ Watt.  I'm feeling a little buyer's remorse.  I fear that five years or more after CY retires that Burrow will still be a stud, franchise QB in the league.  I don't know if Washington explored a trade or not.  They should have though.  

 

Not putting the fault of the Defense completely on CY mind you.  I'm adamant that Bostic, Collins, and Fuller need to be replaced.  Or Fuller needs a new position.  The quick game is really hurting the Dline.  Thus showing it's easier to gameplan against a great defender than a great QB.  Great QBs > great defenses more often than not.  SMH at the QB's left to face!

[Monkman56]

On 9/18/2021 at 8:51 PM, CTskin said:

Chase is the leader of this defense and has been arguably our least effective member of the front 4. For a #2 pick with the swag he carries, he needs to be a difference maker. Often. Does he even have a qb hurry so far? Way too many 3rd down passing plays converted because the qb has all day. I said it after the TB game where our front 4 was embarrassed that now the blueprint on how to beat our D is out there… on paper the talent has improved, so part of me thinks this really may be the case. 

 

Collins is the glaring hole but this is what many of us expected. When SIP mentioned that collins and curl were playing together in camp I commented about how this is a recipe for disaster. Sure enough, not working. Mccain + curl, do it for the love of god.

 

If the front 4 isn’t going to play like a studs then the defense is average at best. 4 1st rd picks should afford the team the luxury to not have to blitz to generate pressure. Every play one of them should be winning their battles. We’ve faced two really bad OLs and looked like we had backups on the field against them.

10 days to gameplan for the juggernaut offense of the bills. A LOT has to change if we’re going to have any shot.

Payne and Allen have won their battles and are playing well but the DE's and LB's are not.

 

[dyst]

Do you all like the combo of Holcomb/Bostic or Mason Foster/Zach Brown?

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, dyst said:

Do you all like the combo of Holcomb/Bostic or Mason Foster/Zach Brown?

 

At this point I'll take Ditka/Butkus in their current age.

 

But of the choices the combo with ZB is far superior. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by KDawg

[skinny21]

The primary defensive issues, IMO, likely come down to an intersection of team building, personnel/talent problems, and coaching in the back 7.  
We’re caught between man and zone personnel with the dbs, our backers can’t really cover (except Davis, but he lacks experience) and neither can Collins, Curl is playing a new position, and McCain is learning a new system.
All of them are having to adjust to playing both man and zone, which has to be especially tough on the young guys - Curl/St Juste - and Fuller - playing both inside and outside.  
 

If Del Rio calls for man coverage, Fuller, Bostic and Collins are at a disadvantage.  Not to mention St Juste is going through growing pains and Holcomb is ok at best in coverage.  In zone, St Juste, WJIII, Bostic and Collins are weak spots (and Holcomb ain’t great).  I’m not sure about the safeties in either scenario.  Curl is smart and McCain experienced, but given they’re learning the position and scheme (respectively?), alternating between man/zone has to be tough.  
 

I’d guess, as others have speculated, all of those assignment issues are exacerbated by guys trying to ‘help’ too much to cover those deficiencies.  
 

On top of all of that, we just played 3 teams with qbs that can hurt you with their legs and fairly dangerous backs.  Pretty easy to guess Del Rio wanted to contain all 3 qbs in the pocket (succeeded vs Herbert/Allen, failed against Jones), and couple that with limiting the run games (relatively successful against all 3, though you could easily argue they didn’t run as much due to passing success/ease).  

I’d guess the name of the game was to make the qbs beat us with their arms.  Considering the talent of their pass catchers and the mishmash version of a back 7, it’s not too surprising these guys passed the ball up and down the field.  With that passing game mismatch, I don’t find it too surprising (in hindsight of course) we haven’t come away with many sacks, etc.  

 

Here’s hoping Del Rio can find something that works by tweaking personnel.  That probably also involves committing to either man or zone. 

[dyst]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

But of the choices the combo with ZB is far superior. 

Damn so our LB crew got worse. 

[757SeanTaylor21]

I mean if fuller can't run man and they wanna run man cover 1...put him at fs. Chiefs used him as a fs plenty of times. Let mctyer get some burn in the slot. Have Jamin and curl as lbs. Wj3 juste on outside. Gets Bostic and Collins off the field. And to many its not a coincidence that our defense got better when Collins got injured 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

29th in defensive DVOA (football outsiders’ main efficiency stat)

 

We finished last year 3rd. 

[Koolblue13]

15 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

We beat Ben Roethlisberger, at a time when he was pretty hot, having won 11 in a row in 2020 prior to that game.

We beat them and we broke them. They were 11-0 before us. And 1-3 after us.

That toilet was already flushed. We just rode the turn down.

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-4-defense-rankings-2021

 

WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM

Washington’s defense just can’t get off the field. It averages almost seven offensive plays per drive — only the Seattle Seahawks have faced a greater number of offensive plays per game. The Football Team's defensive line is still an impressive unit, but the unit is facing a more capable slate of quarterbacks this season. On top of that, they aren’t forcing turnovers, which only piles onto the problems. Washington has forced just one turnover so far as a defense, the lowest total in the league.

The Football Team are allowing a score on almost 60% of their drives, the worst mark in football. There is more quality in this Washington defense than it's currently showing, but it needs to figure out a way to get on the right side of variance because the opposing quarterback gauntlet isn’t getting any easier.

 

 

Here are the best and worst defenses in the NFL heading into Week 4 of the 2021 NFL season.

Click here for more PFF tools:

---

Team	EPA/Play	Rank	EPA/Run	Rank	EPA/Pass	Rank
Carolina Panthers	-0.299	1	-0.434	1	-0.237	2
Buffalo Bills	-0.282	2	-0.401	3	-0.230	4
Denver Broncos	-0.263	3	-0.159	15	-0.299	1
New Orleans Saints	-0.178	4	-0.226	10	-0.157	6
Arizona Cardinals	-0.160	5	-0.036	25	-0.233	3
New England Patriots	-0.147	6	-0.109	20	-0.180	5
Cincinnati Bengals	-0.134	7	-0.431	2	-0.013	10
New York Jets	-0.085	8	-0.310	5	0.105	19
Dallas Cowboys	-0.083	9	-0.128	17	-0.072	7
Chicago Bears	-0.076	10	-0.196	12	0.022	12
Philadelphia Eagles	-0.057	11	-0.143	16	0.023	13
Pittsburgh Steelers	-0.042	12	-0.299	6	0.105	20
Los Angeles Rams	-0.015	13	0.027	31	-0.031	8
Las Vegas Raiders	-0.015	14	-0.170	14	0.053	14
Miami Dolphins	-0.009	15	-0.107	22	0.064	15
Los Angeles Chargers	-0.007	16	0.017	29	-0.023	9
Tampa Bay Buccaneers	-0.004	17	-0.349	4	0.121	21
Cleveland Browns	0.001	18	-0.253	8	0.134	22
Minnesota Vikings	0.012	19	0.021	30	0.007	11
Atlanta Falcons	0.026	20	-0.184	13	0.148	23
Houston Texans	0.045	21	-0.029	26	0.093	17
San Francisco 49ers	0.045	22	-0.048	24	0.092	16
Tennessee Titans	0.060	23	-0.003	28	0.094	18
Indianapolis Colts	0.061	24	-0.199	11	0.305	31
Baltimore Ravens	0.065	25	-0.295	7	0.242	29
Seattle Seahawks	0.085	26	-0.107	21	0.231	28
Jacksonville Jaguars	0.087	27	-0.127	18	0.255	30
Green Bay Packers	0.092	28	-0.095	23	0.218	26
Washington Football Team	0.101	29	-0.117	19	0.227	27
New York Giants	0.107	30	-0.025	27	0.171	24
Detroit Lions	0.134	31	-0.232	9	0.395	32
Kansas City Chiefs	0.176	32	0.131	32	0.211	25

[ThomasRoane]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

If Del Rio calls for man coverage, Fuller, Bostic and Collins are at a disadvantage.  Not to mention St Juste is going through growing pains and Holcomb is ok at best in coverage.  

 

Actually, Holcomb isn't really bad.  He's there he's just not big enough to match up with a TE.  Holcomb on a back isn't a bad match up.  You gotta put Davis on the TE though.  He's got the size and athleticism that you need for some of the better TE's in the game.  Ideally you'd want Curl on the TE but offenses aren't stupid. They know who Curl is now.  So they're forcing him to cover receivers more often it seems.  

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, dyst said:

Do you all like the combo of Holcomb/Bostic or Mason Foster/Zach Brown?

I'd rather have Rivera/Del Rio playing