All things defense

[Warhead36]

There is nothing this defense does well. We can't play man to man. We can't play zone. We can't blitz. We can't pressure with four. We can't stop the run. We can't tackle. We commit penalties.

 

Its really remarkable. The entire defensive side of the ball got the yips at the same time.

[Die Hard]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There is nothing this defense does well. We can't play man to man. We can't play zone. We can't blitz. We can't pressure with four. We can't stop the run. We can't tackle. We commit penalties.

 

Its really remarkable. The entire defensive side of the ball got the yips at the same time.

There are a handful of plays where the run defence is stout. And it’s followed by running plays of 8-yards. And there’s more of the latter than the former.

 

But the pass defence relies on offensive penalties or receiver drops. Unforced errors. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Collins needs to be benched. He’s terrible rn.  Blown coverages and missed tackles galore. This defense cannot stop anyone. We are Swiss cheese. Something is wrong here. It’s like we have a couple a dead rats in our home. We need to find the dead rats and remove them.

 

 Del Rio has no answers rn. Would love to hear the convo between Ron and Jack, because this is piss poor.  The good thing is we are basically at rock bottom, we should only get better from here, but I’m not sold thats a given. 

[sprcr]

You cant easily change the players at this point.  You can change Del Rio.

[DJHJR86]

Del Rio isn't the one blatantly missing tackles and getting burned in the secondary.  

[sprcr]

No. But when I've had a team at work performing poorly, I find that terming one underperformer can be highly motivational to the rest.  And whereas we cant readily term the players since no replacements are coming out of the tunnel, I start looking at coaches.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, sprcr said:

You cant easily change the players at this point.  You can change Del Rio.

I wanted blood after last week and Del Rio was in my sights, primarily for the reason you just stated - not because of anything logical or rational.  After watching it again this week, I'm not sure what getting rid of Del Rio solves.  It's becoming more and more clear that this is a personnel issue, and not just one or two pieces, but several.  Beyond our linebackers, the entire secondary is a complete and utter mess on the majority of snaps.  It's hard to even judge what Del Rio is dialing up based on how confused the entire back 7 appears on most snaps.  4 games in, I'm afraid these are problems that cannot be fixed and we are what the #'s say we are.

[ThomasRoane]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I wanted blood after last week and Del Rio was in my sights, primarily for the reason you just stated - not because of anything logical or rational.  After watching it again this week, I'm not sure what getting rid of Del Rio solves.  It's becoming more and more clear that this is a personnel issue, and not just one or two pieces, but several.  Beyond our linebackers, the entire secondary is a complete and utter mess on the majority of snaps.  It's hard to even judge what Del Rio is dialing up based on how confused the entire back 7 appears on most snaps.  4 games in, I'm afraid these are problems that cannot be fixed and we are what the #'s say we are.

 

I agree with your assessment.  I'm not sure how much freedom JDR has.  If I'm him, then I'm telling RR that it's past time watching the same players make the same mistakes (or unable to do their jobs) over and over.  Forget salary and name recognition.  The best 11 need to be on the field.  Period.  Then?  If there still aren't results.  You move on from JDR.  

[Panninho]

Injuries suck, I hope it's not too serious. Wanted him to be out but not like this. However, the D played better when he was out and I am excited to see more of Jamin Davis.

 

[NewCliche21]

1 minute ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

I agree with your assessment.  I'm not sure how much freedom JDR has.  If I'm him, then I'm telling RR that it's past time watching the same players make the same mistakes (or unable to do their jobs) over and over.  Forget salary and name recognition.  The best 11 need to be on the field.  Period.  Then?  If there still aren't results.  You move on from JDR.  

 

I dunno, RR has zero loyalty/attachment/anything for the guys who are effing up.  I don't see him keeping someone else's guys on the field, you know?  Especially from a defensive coach.

[skins island connection]

6 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Del Rio isn't the one blatantly missing tackles and getting burned in the secondary.  

 

 Very true, BUT he IS the one responsible for "teaching" these players.

 

I guess some people figure that DCs OCs and assts are just there to collect a paycheck.

These people are responsible for getting these guys on the same page, to teach these guys what to look for, how to react to it, how to spy, how to block, how to tackle, to mold the players into a unit that best reflects the emphasis of the coach.  DelTaco's HISTORY alone should be all one needs to know that he's just not a good DC. Every single place he's been had gotten worse, far worse, the 2nd year he was there. The majority of problems on-field CAN be corrected, with a real defensive coordinator, not someone who was out of football for 3 years. 

 

[ThomasRoane]

5 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I dunno, RR has zero loyalty/attachment/anything for the guys who are effing up.  I don't see him keeping someone else's guys on the field, you know?  Especially from a defensive coach.

 

You just made me sick to my stomach!  What if they don't feel like they have anyone better to put on the field!?!? If that's the case, they're screwed!  

 

[NewCliche21]

1 minute ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

You just made me sick to my stomach!  What if they don't feel like they have anyone better to put on the field!?!? If that's the case, they're screwed!  

 

 

I farted pretty bad while typing that so that's probably what made you sick.  Sorry bro.
 

[skinzdar55]

1 minute ago, skins island connection said:

 

 Very true, BUT he IS the one responsible for "teaching" these players.

 

I guess some people figure that DCs OCs and assts are just there to collect a paycheck.

These people are responsible for getting these guys on the same page, to teach these guys what to look for, how to react to it, how to spy, how to block, how to tackle, to mold the players into a unit that best reflects the emphasis of the coach.  DelTaco's HISTORY alone should be all one needs to know that he's just not a good DC. Every single place he's been had gotten worse, far worse, the 2nd year he was there. The majority of problems on-field CAN be corrected, with a real defensive coordinator, not someone who was out of football for 3 years. 

 

This!!!!

 

It is amazing to me the amount of fans that want to blame just the players. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, there is still SOME blame to go around to a lot of the players, but the scheme is so unbelievably vanilla. JDR is just not in touch with today’s NFL.

 

I played ball thru (small) college and spent another 10 years coaching at that level. I don’t pretend to be an expert at learning or teaching the intricacies of an NFL defense, but that is my whole point. If someone like me can identify where our biggest problems are on defense, then something is terribly wrong.

 

I really, really like Rivera as a human being, but he  needs to make something happen. He’s the boss and ultimately it falls on him.

[srtman04]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

There is nothing this defense does well. We can't play man to man. We can't play zone. We can't blitz. We can't pressure with four. We can't stop the run. We can't tackle. We commit penalties.

 

Its really remarkable. The entire defensive side of the ball got the yips at the same time.

 

Hell, they can't play Defense!  lol

[757SeanTaylor21]

We need to get back to running thr same defense we ran last year after Collins got hurt. And we need Collins to be on the sideline. He is a complete liability out there. He is always late or touched and can't tackle. Legitimately we need to bench him. 

[method man]

1 hour ago, Panninho said:

Injuries suck, I hope it's not too serious. Wanted him to be out but not like this. However, the D played better when he was out and I am excited to see more of Jamin Davis.

 

I feel bad for Bostic but maybe this is the push for them to sign McKinney

[redskinss]

"Or lack thereof" needs to be added to the thread title.

Edited October 4, 2021 by redskinss

[klwilkins1977]

I don't know if anyone has broached this topic... but I just had an idea.  THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO SPEAK ABOUT POLITICS.  The defense has underwhelmed.  Could it be  that Del Rio lost some of these guys with his online political rants?  I know some of you may think that this is a cop-out,  but how effective can a coach be without the guys trusting/believing in him?  

[bh32]

I don't see them giving a lot of effort except for a couple players and it shows with their pursuit and tackling..To me it looks like they don't trust the coaches or just don't care.

[redskinss]

12 minutes ago, klwilkins1977 said:

I don't know if anyone has broached this topic... but I just had an idea.  THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO SPEAK ABOUT POLITICS.  The defense has underwhelmed.  Could it be  that Del Rio lost some of these guys with his online political rants?  I know some of you may think that this is a cop-out,  but how effective can a coach be without the guys trusting/believing in him?  

I doubt it.

I don't think he's lost the players at least not yet. 

They seem to be fighting pretty hard they just have no idea where they're supposed to be and when they do they don't have the athletic ability to get there.

It seems to me like a combination of two things.

One, we are severely lacking talent in the back end especially at linebacker and two, del Rio is not getting creative to nullify that disadvantage. 

All 4 teams have attacked us in the same way with great success and I've seen no major adjustments to try to stop it. 

There's been no personnel changes, no players brought in off the street, no major shifts in play calling like exotic blitzes or stunts.

It seems like he's just assuming that once players get comfortable in their assignments the defense will come around and if a few broken plays were all that ailed this defense he may be right.

Unfortunately this defense is terrible from front to back and top to bottom and nothing short of significant changes is going to make any real difference. 

 

 

[oraphus]

This is more on the coaching than players.. If the current scheme is not working for the players then you find one that does! Thats the why they make the big bucks.. otherwise, WTF is the point of having a D coordinator when your D with a crap load of talent gets abused every week.

Colins keeps getting beat.. why are they not playing Curl at SS more? he was great at it last year.

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, skinzdar55 said:

This!!!!

 

It is amazing to me the amount of fans that want to blame just the players. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, there is still SOME blame to go around to a lot of the players, but the scheme is so unbelievably vanilla. JDR is just not in touch with today’s NFL.

 

I played ball thru (small) college and spent another 10 years coaching at that level. I don’t pretend to be an expert at learning or teaching the intricacies of an NFL defense, but that is my whole point. If someone like me can identify where our biggest problems are on defense, then something is terribly wrong.

 

I really, really like Rivera as a human being, but he  needs to make something happen. He’s the boss and ultimately it falls on him.

Ok so you're no expert but can see that the scheme is pure vanilil and that it's the problem.

 

From everything I have read about it, Del Rio's scheme is nowhere near vanilla, and is often seen as one of the most complicated.

Now if it's so vanilla you'll have to wonder are players so often out of positions or playing out of scheme. Playing hero or give half-assed efforts?

 

That doesn't seem to go along really well with your theory.

 

We can bash it on Del Rio as much as we want, but considering how our secondary is playing, switching the DC won't help much.

Or they do this on purpose to get the DC fired. But if that's true, you need to cut them all ASAP, because culture and everything that goes with it.

[PartyPosse]

How come we don’t play much press coverage?

[ThomasRoane]

3 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I doubt it.

I don't think he's lost the players at least not yet. 

They seem to be fighting pretty hard they just have no idea where they're supposed to be and when they do they don't have the athletic ability to get there.

It seems to me like a combination of two things.

One, we are severely lacking talent in the back end especially at linebacker and two, del Rio is not getting creative to nullify that disadvantage. 

All 4 teams have attacked us in the same way with great success and I've seen no major adjustments to try to stop it. 

There's been no personnel changes, no players brought in off the street, no major shifts in play calling like exotic blitzes or stunts.

It seems like he's just assuming that once players get comfortable in their assignments the defense will come around and if a few broken plays were all that ailed this defense he may be right.

Unfortunately this defense is terrible from front to back and top to bottom and nothing short of significant changes is going to make any real difference. 

 

 

Benching an underachieving, high priced Safety couldn't hurt.  That would get the attention of many of the players.  Letting Jamin Davis fight thru some growing pains would be for the long term.  He's a special athlete.  Fuller played better.  I wouldn't mind seeing Forrest back in the lineup from IR.  I can't remember for sure but I don't think BSJ was on the field.  Was he hurt or something?  Hope he wasn't a healthy scratch.  Unless it was for discipline.  I think he can develop into a really good corner.