Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

They were just talking about that on his show.  Talked about the Turner connection.  I didn’t hear anything about proposed return value.

Please no to Bridgewater. Easily can argue Alex Smith at his current level is better than Bridgewater and that a Kyle Allen with experience has more value due to cost and time in system. If it’s going to be a game manager the QB must have some legit running ability. He was just okay with running last year in my limited time watching and stat hunting. 

[skinny21]

If Carolina lands Watson, I’m curious to see what happens with Bridgewater.  Also, I’d think Watson’s deal, if it happens, would give an indication of the market for Wilson (though I have serious doubts he gets traded).  Maybe I’m looking at that the wrong way though.

[Dark Acre]

1 hour ago, dswerdlw said:

Since Rivera was willing to trade a 5th round selection for Kyle Allen, it's reasonable to believe that he'd be willing to give up the same for Mariota.

And if he channels the ghost of George "40 men together can't lose" Allen, it'll be the same pick he traded for Kyle Allen....  

[FootballZombie]

Panthers out here playing with their poker cards backwards.

 

Considering how they almost landed Stafford, I gotta assume they are not playing the reverse psychology game and are not angling to get a specific QB in the draft. They are straight up going hard for a difference maker at QB.

 

I like how our FO is hiding their cards, not 100% clear who we are going after and we don’t know what we offered until after everything goes down. We have had our fingers in as many pies as any one else but you don’t see reports about our offers or interest to the extent of other teams, like the exact trade details of Indy’s offer to Phi, days before it happen, if it even happens. Its nerve-grating for a fan, but darn if it does not feel professional.

 

No reason to rush anything either. We are a month out from FA and we are under the cap. We don’t “have” to do anything, while most other teams have to get their financials in order before the start of the NFL year.

 

On a side note, if you are starting to get articles where an NFL owner is salivating over another teams under contract player, you are likely inching your way towards tampering territory. If someone in HOU is thinking, you can essentially get a temp gag order on the whole Watson situation by complaining to the NFL.

Edited February 17, 2021 by FootballZombie

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[HigSkin]

🤣🤣

 

 

[tmandoug1]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

 

 

This just doesn't really work. The absolute best case for this...best case...is if you somehow wind up with an absolutely insane support cast and a "good" QB and go on a 2-3 year tear like the Rams and Warner. But even then it only lasted for a few years. Then tons of contracts come up and you have to make decisions on who to keep, and that goes away. 

 

The most likely case is that you end up with a good supporting cast and decent QB and are a team that's generally average or a bit above and might sneak into the playoffs a couple of times. If lots of things go your way you could actually get to and maybe even win a SB once (Eagles, Ravens, 49ers) but it's really unlikely. But then you go right back to reality and being a mediocre team again anyway. 

I guess my point would be not to reach for something that lands us a below average QB like we have been doing (Snyder Fails). If we have a strong supporting cast on both defense and offense then we become a team that is a destination for superstars not a dumpster fire. 

Two schools of thought around here I think, one of which we fail at regularly. Trade the world for a suspect rookie or FA and fail. The other is to build through the draft and hope for the best while adding a sprinkling of FA signings here and there. RR and company are now on the path that I prefer, character, responsibility, accountability.......a culture we haven't seen since Gibbs IMHO. 

Those were the 5 best quarters of football I have seen in awhile. I like that feeling.....

[CjSuAvE22]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Please no to Bridgewater. Easily can argue Alex Smith at his current level is better than Bridgewater and that a Kyle Allen with experience has more value due to cost and time in system. If it’s going to be a game manager the QB must have some legit running ability. He was just okay with running last year in my limited time watching and stat hunting. 

No u cannot easily argue that....Alex smith was in the 14-18 qb range when we traded for him....hes now nothing more than a clipboard holder at best...that being said i do not want teddy bridgewater so im with you there.

[mistertim]

24 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

I guess my point would be not to reach for something that lands us a below average QB like we have been doing (Snyder Fails). If we have a strong supporting cast on both defense and offense then we become a team that is a destination for superstars not a dumpster fire. 

Two schools of thought around here I think, one of which we fail at regularly. Trade the world for a suspect rookie or FA and fail. The other is to build through the draft and hope for the best while adding a sprinkling of FA signings here and there. RR and company are now on the path that I prefer, character, responsibility, accountability.......a culture we haven't seen since Gibbs IMHO. 

Those were the 5 best quarters of football I have seen in awhile. I like that feeling.....

 

Yeah it's kind of a catch-22.

 

If you build well enough through the draft but don't have a top franchise QB, you're more likely than not to be mired in mediocrity...you'll be a middle of the pack team year in and year out and never really be in a position to draft a top QB prospect without trading up. On the other hand, if you're bad enough that you have a top 3 pick and can land that QB prospect then it probably means you have a bad team and the QB is going to a poor supporting cast.

 

Sometimes you do have to take a swing though. For example KC trading up to 10 from 27 for Mahomes. They had to give up a fair amount but they got their guy and they'll be a contender for the next decade most likely. It would probably take about the same amount for us to trade from where we are to get one of the top QB prospects this year.

[dyst]

I don’t mind bringing in an awful QB in free agency in a back up roll, but hate the idea of trading for an awful QB as a possible starter.

 

Darnold is absolutely terrible and its madness people are dropping 2nd’s and 3rd’d for him in trade scenarios. Certainly there can be an anomaly and magically Darnold turns it around and prospers but its more likely he will continue to falter here too.

 

Potential is a word often used to describe guys like Darnold. Guys who have potential but never reach it. Year after year, their potential entices teams and fans alike but rarely do players with potential reach that summit later in their career. 
 

You either have it early on, or you are constantly chasing their potential. Enough with this Darnold, Mariota, Bridgewater talk. I hope we are not chasing these guys with potential. It’s a mirage.

 

[wit33]

37 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

No u cannot easily argue that....Alex smith was in the 14-18 qb range when we traded for him....hes now nothing more than a clipboard holder at best...that being said i do not want teddy bridgewater so im with you there.

I suppose there’s room for subjectivity, but I speculate the consensus would be on side of Alex Smith at this current version. Maybe I’m wrong. This is going to appear like hyperbole, but I believe Smith is elite at what he does in his management of being a franchise QB and on game days. For me his value took a severe due to his running ability taking, but when comparing to another game managing pocket QB (Bridgewater) I’ll take Smith. 

 

Bridgewater is a poor mans Alex Smith from my view. Bridgewater would love to have the career of Smith. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

[Number 44]

Probably a leak from the Jets, hoping that they can somehow get Urban Meyer to overthink this and screw up.  LOL.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Number 44 said:

Probably a leak from the Jets, hoping that they can somehow get Urban Meyer to overthink this and screw up.  LOL.

Not much chance of that happening when Meyer is advising Lawrence on when to have his private workout and subsequent surgery 

[CommDownMan]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

There could be several teams that do and it means nothing if Jax isn't one of them.  We'll never know officially.

[PartyPosse]

The reality is, of the big 4, Fields, Lawrence, Lance and Wilson, there's a great chance one of them doesn't get a second contract with the team that drafted them.

[Malapropismic Depository]

28 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

There could be several teams that do and it means nothing if Jax isn't one of them.  We'll never know officially.

 

Yes, I read that in fact, multiple teams had done so.

[DWinzit]

8 hours ago, HigSkin said:

🤣🤣

 

 

This is great!

And Sam is not

Just say no

Thank you

[wit33]

17 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

This is great!

And Sam is not

Just say no

Thank you

Im sure George, you, or whoever has a guy he liked coming out of college that hasn’t experienced success yet in the pros.

 

Darnold requires one to speculate on potential, that’s it, nothing more. 

 

I’m totally out on the compensation being reported anyways. His contract presents a much higher risk for team trying to get him. 

[BraveWarrior]

11 hours ago, mistertim said:

This just doesn't really work. The absolute best case for this...best case...is if you somehow wind up with an absolutely insane support cast and a "good" QB and go on a 2-3 year tear like the Rams and Warner. But even then it only lasted for a few years. Then tons of contracts come up and you have to make decisions on who to keep, and that goes away. 

 

The most likely case is that you end up with a good supporting cast and decent QB and are a team that's generally average or a bit above and might sneak into the playoffs a couple of times. If lots of things go your way you could actually get to and maybe even win a SB once (Eagles, Ravens, 49ers) but it's really unlikely. But then you go right back to reality and being a mediocre team again anyway. 

 

Isn't that pretty much the way the league generally works in the age of the salary cap anyway? I mean, you have a few really exceptional QBs who remain a constant and those teams just work hard to keep a decent supporting cast, and they stay consistent for several seasons. But there just aren't enough of those elite QBs for most teams to do anything but get out of the basement and be better than average, tread water and achieve some playoff success with a good QB for 2 or 3 seasons, and then see free agency and salary cap issues break it all down again.

 

With the way this franchise has been since the mid '90s, I think most of us would love seeing them string together a few good seasons right about now. Hell, with Gibbs 2.0 making the playoffs two times in 4 seasons, we were actually able to hold our heads up a bit and feel like a legitimate franchise.   

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

There could be several teams that do and it means nothing if Jax isn't one of them.  We'll never know officially.

 

I agree. It's kind of like Peyton Manning/Ryan Leaf or Andrew Luck/RG3. You get these once a decade type QB prospects. They finally come out after years of hype, and then as the draft nears you get the stories about how some teams like the other guy. It might be true, but when push comes to shove, I'd like to see if any team would actually make that pick to pass over the hyped prospect.

[Jericho]

13 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I remain baffled. A rental on a bad contract for a backup AND we have to give up a reasonably early day 3 pick. No thank you x10,000. 

 

Not only that, but not sure where $18 million for Mariota is "fair value". He was a free agent last year and got $9,125,000 it appears. Now, one could argue he might have gotten more with incentives. But apparently he's now worth twice as much because he started one game in 2020 against a bad team. Apparently 5 years of games is outweighed by one game last year late in the season (that the Raiders lost at home to an inferior team).

[Number 44]

32 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Not only that, but not sure where $18 million for Mariota is "fair value". He was a free agent last year and got $9,125,000 it appears. Now, one could argue he might have gotten more with incentives. But apparently he's now worth twice as much because he started one game in 2020 against a bad team. Apparently 5 years of games is outweighed by one game last year late in the season (that the Raiders lost at home to an inferior team).

From what I've read, this isn't quite the way it is.  His base pay for 2021 is $10.625M, not $18M.  He has incentives.  He would make the $18M if he starts 12 or more games.  There are further incentives for the playoffs.

[mistertim]

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

I suppose there’s room for subjectivity, but I speculate the consensus would be on side of Alex Smith at this current version. Maybe I’m wrong. This is going to appear like hyperbole, but I believe Smith is elite at what he does in his management of being a franchise QB and on game days. For me his value took a severe due to his running ability taking, but when comparing to another game managing pocket QB (Bridgewater) I’ll take Smith. 

 

Bridgewater is a poor mans Alex Smith from my view. Bridgewater would love to have the career of Smith. 

 

Alex Smith has never been elite at anything. Saying he's "elite" at being a game manager is essentially like saying that someone is "elite" at being mediocre. It's a nonsensical statement. 

 

At his best he was probably a top 15 QB. And that was before he got here and before he got hurt. Last season he was one of the worst rated QBs in the NFL (34.8 QBR). Yes we won games with him, but we won those despite him, not because of him.

 

I completely respect and admire the hell out of him for what he went through and came back from. But he's absolutely done as an NFL QB.