Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

Not that I trust Riddick considering he worshipped Haskins, but everyone makes  mistakes

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

35 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I thought people advocating for Sam Darnold was bad but wow someone actually wants Mitch freaking Trebisky? MIght as well bring Rex Grossman back...

All this talk about Carr and Mariota but it's their backup that intrigues me the most. Nathan Peterman. 

[LD0506]

So, Philly is going to draft a QB @6 and then just sit Hurts after getting boned on unloading Wentz?

 

I like this plan

[JamesMadisonSkins]

My thoughts on Darnold and Mariota are about the same. Former high-pick QBs with upside that have not realized upside in the NFL. Mariota has has had a few more years obviously. But I would think both come in and compete with Heinecke. Re-watching clips of the Bucs game really does get me excited for the prospect of Heinecke being a diamond in the rough kind of find, but I do agree it's a bit dangerous to go into the season banking on that, even if you do trade up for a QB in the draft.

 

Mariota in FA or even as a 4th or 5th is a fairly cheap competition option. And I think you bring him in to compete with Heinecke and hope one of them emerges as a legitimate playmaker. Darnold is a bit more intriguing since he's younger, and would likely cost at least #51. So if you're giving up that sort of pick compensation I think you have slightly higher expectations that he wins out in a competition with Heinecke and is the long-term answer.

 

In the end, whatever this FO thinks is the best path for success short and long term, I trust. And it'll be fun to see how it unfolds, but it certainly *Feels* like Darnold/Mariota are Option 1A and 1B. I think Mariota means you can still get creative and move up in the draft if the guy you like falls a bit. But Darnold might make that less likely, meaning you could turn to the 2022 draft for a QB if he falters.

1 minute ago, LD0506 said:

So, Philly is going to draft a QB @6 and then just sit Hurts after getting boned on unloading Wentz?

 

I like this plan

 

Doubt it, but who knows. They may be holding out for a 1st for Wentz so they can trade up for a QB with the pair of 1sts. But I would think the smart play would be to load up on talent around Hurts and hope he's the guy. If not, they're gonna be drafting high again, maybe higher than #6. And they will likely get either Chase or Pitts at #6, which would be tough to pass up given their absolute trash weapons last year.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Matt Miller's take on that ... re: Philly

 

 

[RWJ]

Sounds like team(s) are playing mind games with other teams with this info coming out.  Or the NFL beat reporter social media being the social media.

Edited February 17, 2021 by RWJ

[The Consigliere]

37 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Phillips also notes after these tweets that if you trade a 4th or 5th for Mariota ... don't extend him ... and let him play on a $17m contract (if he ends up starting) ... you could let him walk after the year and likely get a 3rd round comp pick back when he signs elsewhere. A fairly good point.

 

Now that does get complicated if we go out and sign a big-name free agent next year to counteract Mariota going anywhere. Might play into whether the FO chooses to "go big" in FA this year v. going big next year. But that comp pick wouldn't come until 2023 anyway, so it's probably not really worth thinking too much about in terms of the implications today.

 

I remain baffled. A rental on a bad contract for a backup AND we have to give up a reasonably early day 3 pick. No thank you x10,000. 

[HigSkin]

47 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Phillips also notes after these tweets that if you trade a 4th or 5th for Mariota ... don't extend him ... and let him play on a $17m contract (if he ends up starting) ... you could let him walk after the year and likely get a 3rd round comp pick back when he signs elsewhere. A fairly good point.

 

Now that does get complicated if we go out and sign a big-name free agent next year to counteract Mariota going anywhere. Might play into whether the FO chooses to "go big" in FA this year v. going big next year. But that comp pick wouldn't come until 2023 anyway, so it's probably not really worth thinking too much about in terms of the implications today.

 

IMO, a Mariota type guy and contract puts the team in a tough spot.  RR expressed the desire to have an open competition and is Mariota better than Heinicke or Allen who are going to make a couple million a year?  We don't know that nor what RR/Turner believe but a guy occupying $10 mil in cap who sits on the bench is a waste.  The flip side is an extension means they are serious about him starting so what does that say about RR's word to make it a competition?  I mean he's not the "big fish" like a Watson, Dak or Stafford who should be guaranteed a starter.

 

Unfortunately, we really have no clue other than the rumor world of twitter!  LOL

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not that I trust Riddick considering he worshipped Haskins, but everyone makes  mistakes

 

 

 

 

 

Mariota's game against LAC reminds me of Heinicke's game against Tampa!  LOL

[tmandoug1]

Beef up the Oline to protect our durability challenged QBs and provide weapons of mass destruction at WR,TE, FS, MLB and let's see what we can do. My mind is not happy with whats available in FA at the QB position. Its like trying to buy a house these days......ugly house that cost 3x what it's worth.

[HigSkin]

 

[dswerdlw]

7 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Since Rivera was willing to trade a 5th round selection for Kyle Allen, it's reasonable to believe that he'd be willing to give up the same for Mariota.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, dswerdlw said:

Since Rivera was willing to trade a 5th round selection for Kyle Allen, it's reasonable to believe that he'd be willing to give up the same for Mariota.

 

The difference being the salary though. Allen was essentially on a 2-year RFA deal for $2m if the team wanted.

 

Mariota would be up to $17m if he ends up starting. Up to $21m I think if they win the superbowl, although I don't think any of us will care about his cap hit at that point. But $17m to start 12 games and go 7-9 ... eh

Edited February 17, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Est.1974]

20 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Are all 3 from our front office 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

All this talk about Carr and Mariota but it's their backup that intrigues me the most. Nathan Peterman. 

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, sjinhan said:

 

 

I’m opposite.  I do hope Eagles trade him but for something small in return.   I believe Wentz is still a good QB minus current awkward situation in Philly.   
 

I hope Philly trade him only to find Jalen Hurts was just a fluke for few games...  i mean there are many QBs like that... once game tape was out... it didnt take long for NFL DCs to catch up.  
 

 

 

 

"ARE YOU DISRESPECTING THE HOUSE OF HEINICKE??"

 

(I have no clue if anyone here actually watches the Catherine Tate show)

 

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

The more time that goes by I get the sense we’re going to wind up with Mac Jones or Kyle Trask.

 

Trask I’m... underwhelmed. Jones I’m... mediocre. 
 

One real issue (by real I mean I’m totally just messing around) I have with Mac is the fact our QB would have the same last name as the Giants QB. /shudder

 

But the positive of Mac is we can call him Big Mac or Fast Food when he gets sacked.

 

Trask... I’m not sure he’s up to the trask at hand.

 

Jones I'm meh on. We could do worse, but the prospect of having him certainly doesn't get me excited. Trask I want nothing to do with. He has feet of stone and a weak arm. So does Mac Jones, but at least jones has decent footwork and mechanics and doesn't look like he's wading through concrete every time he drops back.

 

That being said, I don't see either guy as a Rivera pick. IIRC Rivera has recently said himself that leadership and physical talent are two big things he looks for in prospects. I think both Jones and Trask have the former, but they're both sorely lacking on the latter.

 

25 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Beef up the Oline to protect our durability challenged QBs and provide weapons of mass destruction at WR,TE, FS, MLB and let's see what we can do. My mind is not happy with whats available in FA at the QB position. Its like trying to buy a house these days......ugly house that cost 3x what it's worth.

 

This just doesn't really work. The absolute best case for this...best case...is if you somehow wind up with an absolutely insane support cast and a "good" QB and go on a 2-3 year tear like the Rams and Warner. But even then it only lasted for a few years. Then tons of contracts come up and you have to make decisions on who to keep, and that goes away. 

 

The most likely case is that you end up with a good supporting cast and decent QB and are a team that's generally average or a bit above and might sneak into the playoffs a couple of times. If lots of things go your way you could actually get to and maybe even win a SB once (Eagles, Ravens, 49ers) but it's really unlikely. But then you go right back to reality and being a mediocre team again anyway. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

John Clayton's / Washington Post's first mock draft has WFT taking Trey Lance ... at #19.

 

I am starting to think waiting on QB and seeing if Lance falls/gets into trade-up territory might be the smartest move. Not that a Mariota signing would really change much, but I think it would allow the team to explore Heinecke early in the season to see what he could provide ... let Allen get back into good health as a backup plan, and then rest Lance for the season as QB3. The concern does play out a bit more that Lance would get on the field in 2021 which I think should be avoided. But I guess there are worse things than that ...

 

I guess there's an outside shot the team could re-do Smith's deal to lower his 2021 cap hit to around $10m ... have him and Heinecke battle it out in camp. Smith is backup/spot starter ... if you can land Lance in the draft then Allen moves on. idk, just spitballing.

Edited February 17, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Est.1974]

44 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

We don't know that nor what RR/Turner believe but a guy occupying $10 mil in cap who sits on the bench is a waste. 

got to assume the Raiders are thinking the same. Unless Gruden thinks he could realistically cash in on Carr and keep Mariota as placeholder. 

[skinny21]

19 minutes ago, mistertim said:

This just doesn't really work. The absolute best case for this...best case...is if you somehow wind up with an absolutely insane support cast and a "good" QB and go on a 2-3 year tear like the Rams and Warner. But even then it only lasted for a few years. Then tons of contracts come up and you have to make decisions on who to keep, and that goes away. 

 

The most likely case is that you end up with a good supporting cast and decent QB and are a team that's generally average or a bit above and might sneak into the playoffs a couple of times. If lots of things go your way you could actually get to and maybe even win a SB once (Eagles, Ravens, 49ers) but it's really unlikely. But then you go right back to reality and being a mediocre team again anyway. 

I get the impression the poster was just saying don’t worry about these ‘may be a slight upgrade, may not’ type of qbs (and presuming we don’t get guys like Watson/Dak/Wilson).  In other words, a continue improving the team and go from there mentality.  This is pretty much where I’m at as well, unless they decide to trade up in the draft for qb.

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I get the impression the poster was just saying don’t worry about these ‘may be a slight upgrade, may not’ type of qbs (and presuming we don’t get guys like Watson/Dak/Wilson).  In other words, a continue improving the team and go from there mentality.  This is pretty much where I’m at as well, unless they decide to trade up in the draft for qb.

 

Yeah I can get behind that for the most part. I was thinking it was a statement of overall philosophy...one that others here have espoused as well. That we just need a decent QB and if we build a great team around him we can go all the way. That really just never works outside of a potential crazy one-off SB run like Philly, etc. To be a perennial contender you need a top QB.

 

But I would agree with continuing to fill holes, absolutely. I just don't want to try and say "meh, we don't need a top QB, we just need to build a <dominant defense, great offensive supporting cast, etc> and we'll be fine". It just doesn't work these days if you want to contend year in and year out.

Edited February 17, 2021 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Most to the point, I'm told that Tepper is over the idea of a "game-manager" at the quarterback position, and ready to pounce on the best proven, young, elite passer that potentially could be available, and that has him fixed on Watson for a multitude of reasons. Tepper, sources said, is over having to watch his team operate with Cam Newton navigating through injuries, or Kyle Allen trying to display he is more than a lower-tier backup, or Teddy Bridgewater dink-and-dunk and protect the football, with clear limitations as to how bold and adventurous a downfield attack would be.

 

Now, entering his fourth season at the helm, and having spent the majority of his time as a Steelers' minority investor watching Ben Roethlisberger play the position with abandon and cunning on his way to a Hall of Fame career, Tepper is done with the caretaker, band-aid, we'll see model of quarterback. He's made it clear to those in the organization, and to his confidants around the NFL, that he wants desperately to upgrade into the penthouse of quarterbacks, believing it to be the most critical element to elevating the team to the heights – both in the standings and financially – that he seeks to soar.

 

And Watson, sources said, is far and away his guy.

Never underestimate the nexus of business and sport, and Tepper purchased this club - basically in cash – due in no small degree to his vision of the Panthers as a true regional anchor. He saw them as a team that, if managed properly, could draw fans from multiple states and their name "Carolina," and not "Charlotte," or "North Carolina," already spoke to that model. This should be the team for all of the Carolinas and beyond, filling a void between Atlanta and Washington, and Tepper quickly began making immediate infrastructure allowances to that end.

 

Announcing he would be moving the team's practice facility across the border, into South Carolina, where it already had been holding training camp, was a strong nod in that direction. Giving Rhule the kind of money and term on his contract unlike what most first-time NFL coaches garner (even accomplished college coaches), was another (this is SEC country, after all, and college fandom runs deeper than the pro ties by and large in that region). Securing face-of-the-franchise Christian McCaffrey to a record deal for a running back was another, and landing Watson would be the crown jewel.

 

...Tepper is over being middling at best (7-9 is his best result with a team and staff he inherited), and the fact that the team's record is 17-31 under his ownership is lost on no one in that organization. Another year of Bridgewater at the helm is beyond unlikely at this point, even with $10M of his $17M in salary already guaranteed, and if he is there it will be because the Panthers are unable to land Watson, and the quarterback they select eighth overall is not ready to debut (this will another pandemic-compromised offseason, remember, with players unlikely to be in camp until the start of training camps, which could be truncated and/or delayed as well).

 

The owner is consumed with landing a true franchise quarterback, who could transform the fortunes of the team on field and off, and make Panthers games more alluring to fans and sponsors alike. Making a surge in the standings could only aid his hopes of one day securing a true state-of-the-art sports and entertainment complex – ideally with a retractable roof – worthy of hosting Super Bowls and NCAA championships, something Tepper covets.

 

One need only recall where Watson played his college ball – just down the road in South Carolina at Clemson – to see why he would have a particular appeal for this franchise. How better for Tepper to further build his brand as the team for all of the Carolinas and beyond, than by luring the most accomplished NFL quarterback in franchise history, still not yet even in his prime, already secured to a long-term contract which the Texans did the work of negotiating for you?

Edited February 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[NickyJ]

Trubisky is vomitrocious.

[moondog]

On 1/28/2021 at 3:14 PM, KDawg said:

I wouldn’t trade for a single QB out there. None, aside from Watson, really make us significantly better. We do need to have a competent third guy tho because Heinecki and Allen both seem a little fragile. You can hate it, but Trubisky and Fitzpatrick are both athletic guys that could be had on bargain deals without giving up any draft picks and could reasonable at least keep the team competitive in a backup role if called upon. 
 

Plus both are similar athletically or mobility wise to our guys in this offense so that’s beneficial to the oline if we had to sub a guy in. 
 

I guess I’d be ok for like a 6th rounder to Jax for Minshew for that same reason and he’s still be on a rookie deal. 

Not sure why it quoted you kdawg but won’t let me delete the quote box. 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by moondog

[Ball Security]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Most to the point, I'm told that Tepper is over the idea of a "game-manager" at the quarterback position, and ready to pounce on the best proven, young, elite passer that potentially could be available, and that has him fixed on Watson for a multitude of reasons. Tepper, sources said, is over having to watch his team operate with Cam Newton navigating through injuries, or Kyle Allen trying to display he is more than a lower-tier backup, or Teddy Bridgewater dink-and-dunk and protect the football, with clear limitations as to how bold and adventurous a downfield attack would be.

 

Now, entering his fourth season at the helm, and having spent the majority of his time as a Steelers' minority investor watching Ben Roethlisberger play the position with abandon and cunning on his way to a Hall of Fame career, Tepper is done with the caretaker, band-aid, we'll see model of quarterback. He's made it clear to those in the organization, and to his confidants around the NFL, that he wants desperately to upgrade into the penthouse of quarterbacks, believing it to be the most critical element to elevating the team to the heights – both in the standings and financially – that he seeks to soar.

 

And Watson, sources said, is far and away his guy.

Never underestimate the nexus of business and sport, and Tepper purchased this club - basically in cash – due in no small degree to his vision of the Panthers as a true regional anchor. He saw them as a team that, if managed properly, could draw fans from multiple states and their name "Carolina," and not "Charlotte," or "North Carolina," already spoke to that model. This should be the team for all of the Carolinas and beyond, filling a void between Atlanta and Washington, and Tepper quickly began making immediate infrastructure allowances to that end.

 

Announcing he would be moving the team's practice facility across the border, into South Carolina, where it already had been holding training camp, was a strong nod in that direction. Giving Rhule the kind of money and term on his contract unlike what most first-time NFL coaches garner (even accomplished college coaches), was another (this is SEC country, after all, and college fandom runs deeper than the pro ties by and large in that region). Securing face-of-the-franchise Christian McCaffrey to a record deal for a running back was another, and landing Watson would be the crown jewel.

 

...Tepper is over being middling at best (7-9 is his best result with a team and staff he inherited), and the fact that the team's record is 17-31 under his ownership is lost on no one in that organization. Another year of Bridgewater at the helm is beyond unlikely at this point, even with $10M of his $17M in salary already guaranteed, and if he is there it will be because the Panthers are unable to land Watson, and the quarterback they select eighth overall is not ready to debut (this will another pandemic-compromised offseason, remember, with players unlikely to be in camp until the start of training camps, which could be truncated and/or delayed as well).

 

The owner is consumed with landing a true franchise quarterback, who could transform the fortunes of the team on field and off, and make Panthers games more alluring to fans and sponsors alike. Making a surge in the standings could only aid his hopes of one day securing a true state-of-the-art sports and entertainment complex – ideally with a retractable roof – worthy of hosting Super Bowls and NCAA championships, something Tepper covets.

 

One need only recall where Watson played his college ball – just down the road in South Carolina at Clemson – to see why he would have a particular appeal for this franchise. How better for Tepper to further build his brand as the team for all of the Carolinas and beyond, than by luring the most accomplished NFL quarterback in franchise history, still not yet even in his prime, already secured to a long-term contract which the Texans did the work of negotiating for you?

They were just talking about that on his show.  Talked about the Turner connection.  I didn’t hear anything about proposed return value.

[Lovi]

7 hours ago, sjinhan said:

 

 

I’m opposite.  I do hope Eagles trade him but for something small in return.   I believe Wentz is still a good QB minus current awkward situation in Philly.   
 

I hope Philly trade him only to find Jalen Hurts was just a fluke for few games...  i mean there are many QBs like that... once game tape was out... it didnt take long for NFL DCs to catch up.  
 

 

 

Whatever hurts them the most I'm supportive of. HAHA