Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[ExoDus84]

If the Jets give us Darnold, and a 2nd rounder or better, in exchange for nothing but a thank you and a candygram, then I'm ok with it. Otherwise, hard pass.

[Malapropismic Depository]

8 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

If the Jets give us Darnold, and a 2nd rounder or better, in exchange for nothing but a thank you and a candygram, then I'm ok with it. Otherwise, hard pass.

 

I don't believe the reports, or I should really say "rumors", that we are actually pursuing him

[RWJ]

RR has to get this right (starting QB) and he's putting his trust in Mayhew, Hurney and Polian.  RR makes the decision.  Right now he's in charge, I believe and not Snyder.  How long that leash is remains to be seen.  Interesting to see what he does.  

[kingdaddy]

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

They had to eat millions of dollars this year though. 

A record setting 34 million cap hit...previous record was 22 million. That's some serious eatin.

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I don't believe the reports, or I should really say "rumors", that we are actually pursuing him

 

The rumor is we checked in on Darnold.  I could believe that.  It doesn't mean for sure though we will chase him.  The thing that now throws me off is Keim among others explaining that checking in on players is due diligence whether you want the player or not when you are shopping for a spot like they are for QB.  You want to see what they are asking for, what the market is, who is chasing whom, so you want to be in the mix to see where the market is going regardless of said player is a true target.

 

So it makes me wonder as to the Mariota, Darnold stuff what's true and what isn't.  Sheehan has a souce in that building that he claims like Darnold.  Maybe that's true, maybe not.  I am sure that person told what he told to Sheehan but at the same time I presume that same person knew that Sheehan would take that to the air so maybe that leak is intentional?  or maybe not?

 

If I am focused on trading for a QB whether its Darnold, Carr, Mariota, or name that dude, I'd want the league to feel that I am not desperate for any one of those guys and I am interested in all of them.   

 

Also what makes me pause is how much Hunrey/Mayhew stressed the right way to approach a trade is to have no leaks.  On the Stafford front there was some speculation that they'd be interested but it didn't really leak until the day the trade happened.  i recall the same day it became clear we were in the mix, that night the Rams pulled the trigger.   So I am thinking the FO is likely good at not revealing their cards.

[slinky]

I know some people wanted us to pick up Kurt Benkerk when he wasnt drafted. Well, he was let go. 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Who is your comment directed to -- me or the dude who said that via PFF who you quote there? 

You. 
 

I will feel for you if Darnold some how ends up the starting QB next year. Lol 

[Malapropismic Depository]

14 minutes ago, slinky said:

I know some people wanted us to pick up Kurt Benkerk when he wasnt drafted. Well, he was let go. 

 

WFT fans won't be fond of a QB that has TWO "Kirks" in his name.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

You. 
 

I will feel for you if Darnold some how ends up the starting QB next year. Lol 

 

The check my ego part of your point comes off snarky.  If its just trust the process and trust Ron as you alluded to in another post at a different time about what goes down -- I do and I said I did.  I had his back pretty much his whole tenure thus far.  You on the other hand criticized Ron multiple times and challenged his decision making style.  So tough for me to take a lecture from you on the point.  It would be more on point for me to lecture you to trust Ron. 

 

You've been wrong before.  I've been wrong.  I could end up wrong on Darnold, too.  But it has nothing to do with checking my ego.  If it was about ego, I'd back Darnold since I liked him before that draft.  But IMO I was wrong about him.  You asked me to bring here the positive tweets about Darnold.  I mentioned who is positive about him.  It's mostly the same draft geeks who pumped up Darnold before that draft -- dudes like McShay who as I mentioned said Darnold is just a shade below Deshaun Watson.  IMO they are the ones who have ego issues because they are doing what they typically do and that is double down on their initial assessement of the players before the draft versus admit they were wrong.  They did the same bit with Rosen, too when he hit the trade market.  Their rap was Rosen is a top 10 talent so a team would do great to get that dude for a mere 2nd rounder in 2019.  We heard that a ton back then.  

 

Overall though sorry much easier to find negatives on twitter than positive info pumping up Darnold.  If the two Jet reporters who covered Darnold said glowing things about him, I'd have posted it just as they said it.  But they were negative so I posted that.  As for the PFF guy not thinking highly of Darnold, sorry.  If I find a PFF into Darnold, I'll post it.   I'd love it to think Darnold is who McShay believes he is.  A Deshaun Watson clone that can be had for a 2nd rounder?  Wow.  I'd be ordering my SB tickets now.  And I'd not have a whit of ego issues to deal with, quite the opposite, I'd just pull my old posts about how I too like Mcshay liked Darnold before that draft. 

 

But yeah the last QB rodeo we had in 2019, I wasn't a fan of drafting Haskins or trading for Rosen.  But once they did trade for Haskins, I did my best to do the glass half full on it until it went south.  I'd do the same if they trade for Darnold or if they traded for Rosen back then.  So no misery for me.  Whatever they do I'd ride it.  If its Darnold my key is getting him cheap.  I can't obviously say with absolute confidence that any QB will be a hit or miss -- but I can say with confidence that Darnold needs to be fixed so if they go for any QB like that including the one I prefer, Mariota, I don't want to pay a heavy price for them.  To me the whole point of getting a fixer up house is getting it a bargain not a premium price with the built in projection that the mansion is inevitable. 😉

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Long Time Fan]

3 hours ago, method man said:

The smart play here is to bring an FA in, hopefully Fitz on a 2 year deal. Pass on trying to solve QB this year, trade the 1st for a 2nd and a 1st in 2022 and use the ammo of 2 1st round picks next year to move up to take Howell, Rattler or someone else who emerges

Unless you are comfortable with Fitzmagic being your QB for the foreseeable future this is a very risky play.  You need someone willing to trade with you this year.  You need Howell, Rattler, etc to develop and play at a high enough level to anchor an NFL franchise this upcoming college season, and then you need teams at or near the top of the draft in 2022 willing to pass on a great QB prospect and trade the pick to us.  If we are moving around in the draft then I would much rather spend a premium to move up for one of the top 3 (maybe 4) QBs this year then gamble that everything will fall into place next year.  It may ultimately play out the way you described but no way I simply pass on trying to solve the QB situation this year.   

Edited February 18, 2021 by Long Time Fan

[TheBlueIndian]

No Picksmagic !  The guy is fun to watch when he is on the other sideline but please for the love of God keep that dude far away from here. This team is finally starting to trend in the right direction, and I would have said the same thing if they only won 5 games and missed the paloffs, but that guy seems like the exact opposite of what RR is looking for under center.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

WFT fans won't be fond of a QB that has TWO "Kirks" in his name.

 

To be fair, it's actually Benkert. But now he has two "Kurts" in his name. Kurt is an even more annoying name than Kirk. So that just goes against him.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The ego part of your point comes off snarky.  If its just trust the process and trust Ron as you alluded to in another post at a different time about what goes down -- I do and I said I did.  I had his back pretty much his whole tenure thus far.  You on the other hand criticized Ron multiple times and challenged his decision making style.  So tough for me to take a lecture from you on the point.  It would be more on point for me to lecture you to trust Ron. 
 

 

My apologies on the snark. I posted, then reread it and it came off stronger than what I was intending. The intent was to poke fun. 

Oh ya, Ron is much more of a sensitive dude than I thought and his rationale was highly questionable at times this past season. Don’t attempt to put me to the other extreme of being anti Ron lol. I’ve championed him from the jump and his value being immense due to his ability establish a positive culture.
 

Him as the lead dawg of an organization remains in a place of evaluation for me. No history to back him up just yet. A positive year 1. Just in case they’re keeping score of what I think. 

 

Quote

 

You've been wrong before.  I've been wrong.  I could end up wrong on Darnold, too.  But it has nothing to do with checking my ego.  If it was about ego, I'd back Darnold since I liked him before that draft.  But IMO I was wrong about him.  You asked me to bring here the positive tweets about Darnold.  I mentioned who is positive about him.  It's mostly the same draft geeks who pumped up Darnold before that draft -- dudes like McShay who as I mentioned said Darnold is just a shade below Deshaun Watson.  IMO they are the ones who have ego issues because they are doing what they typically do and that is double down on their initial assessement of the players before the draft versus admit they were wrong.  They did the same bit with Rosen, too when he hit the trade market.  Their rap was Rosen is a top 10 talent so a team would do great to get that dude for a mere 2nd rounder in 2019.  We heard that a ton back then.  
 

 

I assumed you didn’t like Darnold coming out. My bad.

 

For sure, being wrong is a part of the process of being an extreme fan. I mean, you’re wrong more often, but who’s keeping track  

 

Quote

 

But yeah the last QB rodeo we had in 2019, I wasn't a fan of drafting Haskins or trading for Rosen.  But once they did trade for Haskins, I did my best to do the glass half full on it until it went south.  I'd do the same if they trade for Darnold or if they traded for Rosen back then.  So no misery for me.  Whatever they do I'd ride it.  If its Darnold my key is getting him cheap.  I can't obviously say with absolute confidence that any QB will be a hit or miss -- but I can say with confidence that Darnold needs to be fixed so if they go for any QB like that including the one I prefer, Mariota, I don't want to pay a heavy price for them.  To me the whole point of getting a fixer up house is getting it a bargain not a premium price with the built in projection that the mansion is inevitable. 😉

 

I agree on the bargain piece. I would support the move just because of what I’ve seen him do to extend plays lol, but nothing more than 3rd round pick and I’d be more inclined to give a 4th with chance to become a 3rd. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[profusion]

"Lock up the division in February." Did this guy actually watch the Cowturds last year? Dak Prescott ain't fixing all those ills by his lonesome. 😄

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

22 minutes ago, profusion said:

"Lock up the division in February." Did this guy actually watch the Cowturds last year? Dak Prescott ain't fixing all those ills by his lonesome. 😄

Yeah, but they only finished one game behind us. Pretty safe bet they would’ve cruised to the division title if Dak doesn’t go down.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Skinsinparadise]

58 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

My apologies on the snark. I posted, then reread it and it came off stronger than what I was intending. The intent was to poke fun. 

 

 

ok, thanks, no problem, its part of the reason why I asked if it was directed at me before I responded. 

 

58 minutes ago, wit33 said:

. 

Oh ya, Ron is much more of a sensitive dude than I thought and his rationale was highly questionable at times this past season. Don’t attempt to put me to the other extreme of being anti Ron lol. I’ve championed him from the jump and his value being immense due to his ability establish a positive culture.
 

Him as the lead dawg of an organization remains in a place of evaluation for me. No history to back him up just yet. A positive year 1. Just in case they’re keeping score of what I think. 

 

 

Sure, yeah I know you aren't anti-Ron.  But I recall one of your other forays at my point was about trusting Ron versus what we think here or something like that.  I told you I trust him.  My point is my record thus far as to trusting Ron is borderline pristine -- I've had his back on just about everything.   I'll trust him until I have a reason not -- not that I am looking for him to be infalliable but if he gets most things right, I'll keep having his back.  Even if he makes moves that are different than what I am pushing.    But I'll push what I think. 

 

58 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I assumed you didn’t like Darnold coming out. My bad.

 

For sure, being wrong is a part of the process of being an extreme fan. I mean, you’re wrong more often, but who’s keeping track  

 

 

lol, I can think of two pretty big points that you were wrong on that you've argued with me for some time.  but who's counting?  😉

 

But seriously on the right and wrong stuff, if anyone here is nailing every prediction right or close enough then they should be working in the NFL.  Everyone is hit and miss.  I do give a snobby nod to people that make predictions and pick players on the draft thread (which is much harder to do IMO) versus having opinions on established veterans.

 

58 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I assumed you didn’t like Darnold coming out. My bad.

 

 

I didn't dive as deep then as I do now on prospects.  Then it was predicated on watching games in real time without rewatching them like i do now.   But my initial take was he looks like a QB, nice size, can make some beauty throws from time to time and I loved how he can roll in the pocket -- perfect boot type QB, came off like a gamer.     The red flags on him were turnovers and decision making. 

 

My issue with Darnold is those flaws were never fixed.  And I've become more of a pessimist over the years that bad decision making can be fixed.  I think I can sell Darnold much better than Sheehan and some of the others who just say he was a high draft pick, Gase stinks, Tannehill.  Sheehan will add how he played well in some of the rare games they won.  But he doesn't sell any attributes really.  I'd love it if Cooley actually watched him.  He's my favorite film watcher type.  And if he sold him, it would make me feel better.  He's sold him a little to back Sheehan but it wasn't lost on me that he also said in another segment he hasn't really watched Darnold. 

 

I actually bothered to rewatch a couple of Darnold games recently.  Here's my best shot to sell Darnold if he comes here:  He's still young.  He's a nice guy and works hard.  While he's not fast or a running QB, he rolls in the pocket well especially to the right and throws well on the move.    He has a good arm albeit not great.  

 

Why am I not sold?  He has the same thing that bothered me about Rosen -- decision making.  As you know I am OK with Alex albeit I don't think as highly of him as a player as you do.   Alex is a good decision maker.   That's a big part of his charm.   He's IMO too conservative but he knows how to avoid that type of disaster play that kills your team's momentum.  Darnold decision making is really bad and his mistakes -- picks and fumbles can kill a team's momentum.   

 

Alex has good accuracy, Darnold's accuracy isn't good.   If within three years his decision making is still bad and his accuracy is sketchy just removing him from Adam Gase to me won't solve the problem.  Accuracy and decision making are IMO about footwork-heat of the battle type of things.   He stares at his targets but that perhaps can be fixed.  Alex is a leader.  Darnold is described at least by one Jets reporter as more of a blend in with the crowd type than a leader.

 

If they get Darnold, my guess is they think they can fix his footwork, fix his body language/staring at receivers, teach him how to avoid mistakes, and try to regain his moxie.  You said in another post that you like his moxie.  You assumed his interceptions were a function of that.  I told you not really, Darnold makes mistakes while playing conservative ball mostly.  But the college version of Darnold was a guy who played with moxie.  And yeah he was turnover prone there too but at least it was in the contex of making big plays. 

 

The two Jet reporters who watched all of Darnold's games and many of his practices back some of my same observations and more and neither think much of his upside.  So there is a lot there with me on Darnold that doesn't get me jazzed.  But if they happen to chase him, i am guessing they see things that they believe they can fix.  Will see.

 

58 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I agree on the bargain piece. I would support the move just because of what I’ve seen him do to extend plays lol, but nothing more than 3rd round pick and I’d be more inclined to give a 4th with chance to become a 3rd. 

 

If its something like that I wouldn't love it but wouldn't hate it.  I don't care much which reclamation project they bring to battle Kyle Allen and Heinicke in camp as long as they don't pay a high price for that player.  But the reason why Sheehan's point on Darnold drives me nuts is he is actually excited to give up a first and then even extend him to a fat contract.  That just seems nuts to me.   If you do that and get that wrong, that would set this organization back for years.  If you give up a third or 4th with no extension or cheapish one the risk is minimial.  I am open to any dude if the risk is minimal including Darnold. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Malapropismic Depository]

No matter how much we all wish and dream, everyone knows that we're just going to end up taking the Hokie, at the 19th overall pick

[Skinsinparadise]

 

New England Patriots

Projected 2021 starter: Marcus Mariota

The Patriots are among a group of teams that are too far from the top of the draft order to be a likely landing spot for the top-draft-prospect quarterbacks, meaning we're examining other veteran options who could be logical fits. While a Cam Newton return isn't totally ruled out, it's an unlikely option. The 27-year-old Mariota is under contract for one more year with the Raiders but carries a cap charge of $10.725M, an unlikely tab for them to pay for a backup in a cap-tightened year.

Be it via a trade or cut, Mariota could find a new home this offseason ... and the Patriots are a logical fit.

---

Washington Football Team

Projected 2021 starter: Ryan Fitzpatrick

Washington is in the same category as the Patriots: in need of a quarterback addition but too far down the draft order to count on that as the avenue to address it. Fitzy is about as well-traveled as any other player in the league over the past 15 years, but he continues to play at a strong enough level to merit starting consideration. It's often a roller coaster with him under center, but he has an infectious energy that cannot be discounted. We saw it last year in Miami when he helped the team in a few gotta-have-it situations.

[BurgundyBooger]

Fine by me.

 

Let's keep our picks and roll with what we have and what we'll draft. It's refreshing to see all these other teams surrender 1st rounders, conditional or otherwise, for bums while we preserve what we've earned and try to make the best out of what we have without mortgaging our future once again in exchange for paltry division crowns and glorious wildcard exits.

[mistertim]

I really don't get the Fitzpatrick obsession. The guy is insanely up and down as a QB and almost as likely to throw a boneheaded interception as he is make an amazing play. Must be his personality or something. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Another reason I wouldn't having Fitz here, is he always beats us, when playing for other teams.

I think he has beaten us 4 times, but playing for 4 different teams, each time.

So, that may help us get one extra win this year. If not, more.

[bowhunter]

42 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Another reason I wouldn't having Fitz here, is he always beats us, when playing for other teams.

I think he has beaten us 4 times, but playing for 4 different teams, each time.

So, that may help us get one extra win this year. If not, more.

Unless of course you extrapolate that into meaning every time he plays, it means another loss for us.

[Anselmheifer]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/18/no-qbs-drafted-from-2009-16-are-set-to-be-with-team-that-drafted-them/
 

I think the message here is not to take a QB just because you need one, but to find a guy you love and think is THE guy. 
 

For me this year, I want Zach Wilson or Deshaun Watson. I’d be willing to pay above market for either. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/18/no-qbs-drafted-from-2009-16-are-set-to-be-with-team-that-drafted-them/
 

I think the message here is not to take a QB just because you need one, but to find a guy you love and think is THE guy. 
 

 

 

Or the other alternative - a QB who comes reasonably priced, who you feel could surprise a lot of people, if he's in the right environment, system, and coaches.

Like the way Tennessee viewed Tannehill.

Doesn't always work out that way, but a lot of times, you just have to take a gamble.