Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[NickyJ]

Ryan Fitzpatrick is my "Okay, I guess" QB pick. I have no idea whether he's expecting to be paid well for kind of but not really taking the Dolphins to a 10 win season. If he's cheap, I won't lose my mind over it like I would for Darnold, but I'd kind of rather have Mariota over him.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Fitzpatrick only makes sense to me as a placeholder if we draft a QB high this year.

[Darth Tater]

30 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Fitzpatrick only makes sense to me as a placeholder if we draft a QB high this year.

If we sign Fitz next month, we must be looking at a project QB like Lance.

[petey hodge]

Alex Smiff talked about Kaep being in the league... is he still too radioactive for us to consider?

[Est.1974]

I think the Watson saga has to come to a conclusion before several other team QB moves happen. Not saying I think we are in with a realistic shot of trading for him, but any team that does have a serious interest in doing that will be waiting on that outcome first.

 

Or any team interested pretty much has to have the realisation moment that he is off limits and actively move onto plan B.

[Panninho]

1 hour ago, petey hodge said:

Alex Smiff talked about Kaep being in the league... is he still too radioactive for us to consider?

At this point I don't want Kaep. Not for any political reasons but because he has been out of the league for years. And it's not like he was setting the world on fire before. Why should we expect that he is an immediate upgrade over anyone we have when he hasn't been part of a QB room for years now?

 

[FootballZombie]

Kaep has been out of the NFL too long

 

We already have one guy who was pulled off the streets at QB. If you have two on a roster your probably doing something wrong. There are only a handful of people on the planet capable of being a decent QB. Shouldnt be digging around the out of the NFL pile if you want to be successful.

 

 

I do like Kaep, but it would be a big fat no as a pure QB. I'd think he would still probably kill it in a Taysom Hill kinda role tho (Gadget guy not starter), where he can just come in, give you numbers and smash-mouth. I don't think he is interested in being that however, and we can already do it with Logan.

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think the Watson saga has to come to a conclusion before several other team QB moves happen. Not saying I think we are in with a realistic shot of trading for him, but any team that does have a serious interest in doing that will be waiting on that outcome first.

 

Or any team interested pretty much has to have the realisation moment that he is off limits and actively move onto plan B.

Then those teams are fools. Houston is going to play hardball. If Houston moves Watson this year; it won’t be until right before the season starts. More than likely, it’s the 22 offseason.

[Sonny9TD]

Heinicke needs to stay. This smart bastage can read defences better than most. I like him.  Bringing Fitz in is a good idea.  Cam no. Hell no

[HigSkin]

 

[ODU AGGIE]

Yeah, I'm an unabashed Heinicke fan and have been since he was a freshman at ODU. So, I am not convinced we need to trade for another QB right now. But if we do, I want it to be Mariota. At least then we will have two QBs similar enough that either one can run the same offense. If TH wins the competition, great. If Mariota wins the competition, great. But whoever is on the sideline will be able to come in when needed, and the offense should not miss a beat. Cheers! Over and out.

[redrobert]

So a 23 year old Vet in Sam Darnold for a 2nd Rounder or our early 3rd? 

[The Consigliere]

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I think at least part of it is that Wentz is on a bad contract for what he's been for a few years. Darnold isn't, it's a cheap roll of the dice versus an expensive one. I get the view that the floor is higher with Wentz though, w/protection, Wentz was once a top 10 caliber QB, the best Darnold ever has been was borderline competent under Todd Bowles as a rookie. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I am definitely in the Fitzpatrick camp.  Sorry for using all these meat references but for some reason its the best analogy that hits me to this even though I don't really eat much meat. 😀

 

We got the steak aisle.  We got the burger aisle.  If we can't get the steak then we got no choice but to go to the burger aisle.  and my favorites on that front would be in order Mariota, Fitzpatrick, Winston.  I'd be happy for different reasons with any of the three.  And its not because i am pretending a burger is steak.  But heck if that ends up the hand dealt, then I have certain ones i like within that category.

 

As for Fitzpatrick, I've watched him a bunch.  I was at the game, 2 years back, when we had control of it with Rosen in the game -- Fitz comes in in the 4th quarter and comes back and likely would have beat us if it weren't for their weird 2 point attempt at the end of the game to try to win it.   I watched the one last year where they were losing to the Raiders, they bench Tua, bring in Fitz and he mounted a crazy comeback.  The dude has plenty of faults but he's a good leader, teammate and is clutch.

 

He's graded better by PFF and by a good margin over Trubisky, Dalton, Darnold, etc.  He does throw picks but its not always crazy/insane.  It may feel that way because they tend to come in waves with him.  He'd have like 2 games back to back with multiple picks.  He's a streaky player and is aggressive.

 

But if we aren't going to fine dining restaurants and going with fast food.  He IMO is one of the better fast food bets.  i'd take a mobile Alex Smith over Fitzpatrick.  But I'd easily take Fitzpatrick over the current immobile/injury prone Alex. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I think at least part of it is that Wentz is on a bad contract for what he's been for a few years. Darnold isn't, it's a cheap roll of the dice versus an expensive one. I get the view that the floor is higher with Wentz though, w/protection, Wentz was once a top 10 caliber QB, the best Darnold ever has been was borderline competent under Todd Bowles as a rookie. 

 

You got Darnold's contract about to run out.  And it likely would cost a first or 2nd if the NFL insider types are right.  I don't care for Darnold as a player but even if I did, you only got him cheap for one year and if you are going to give up a high pick, you better be right.  It's not the end of the world that they threw a first rounder for Haskins down the trash, I'd rather not do it again.   Then it would be 2 out of the last three years and that can add up. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Sonny9TD said:

Heinicke needs to stay. This smart bastage can read defences better than most. I like him.  Bringing Fitz in is a good idea.  Cam no. Hell no

 

Heinicke is staying. We gave him a 2 year deal.

 

As far as Fitz...I'm not so high on him, but we could certainly do worse. I think we'd get frustrated with him because he's so up and down. He'll mount an amazing comeback one week, and then throw 2 pick sixes the next and lose you the game. But he'd definitely be better than guys like Trubisky or Winston IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

I also wouldn't say Darnold was borderline competent under Bowles.  His QBR was exactly the same as it was under the first year under Gase.  An atrocious 45.   About a 1:1 TD-INT ratio.  Same crap from Darnold pre Gase.  You can argue ironically that Darnold's best season relatively speaking was the first season under Gase. 

[The Consigliere]

21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Matt Miller has been wrong before, hopefully he's wrong again.  i won't go nuts if its Darnold if its on the cheap though. 

 

 

 

 

No thank you on Toney. Going to be vastly overdrafted. Give me Chase (pipe dream), Bateman, Moore, or a discount w/Terrence Marshall or an even bigger discount w/ T. Terry. If we want slot, Amari Rogers x10000.  

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As far as Fitz...I'm not so high on him, but we could certainly do worse. I think we'd get frustrated with him because he's so up and down. He'll mount an amazing comeback one week, and then throw 2 pick sixes the next and lose you the game. But he'd definitely be better than guys like Trubisky or Winston IMO.

 

I am close to this take.  I do think you get more highs than lows from Fitzpatrick.   If by chance we make it to the post season, he might just be the type of a dude who can get hot at the right time.   He's streaky but he's a fun ride when he does get hot.  And he tends to get hot in some big games.  So that's my most optimistic take of him.  

 

I just think there is a chance we will be shopping in that aisle of the supermarket.  I am not so convinced other Stafford like opportunities surface.  I am ok with trading up in the draft but we have a long way to climb from 19 so I am not optimistic.

 

As for the Heinicke is the guy group (I know you aren't among them), if Rivera was sold he's the solution, then I would be, too.  But clearly, he thinks he could upgrade.  

 

The Dolphins O line is young and likely will improve but it still was bad last year.  Their O line near the bottom by PFF and it looked it too.  Miami's weapions arguably worse than ours.   You give Fitz a better O line like he has here.  We upgrade at receiver.  I don't think it would be a disaster.  

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Then those teams are fools. Houston is going to play hardball. If Houston moves Watson this year; it won’t be until right before the season starts. More than likely, it’s the 22 offseason.

If this is their strategy they'd be pretty foolish. Teams will be set and less teams will get into a bidding fray for him. Why do you think they would wait that long to make him available?

[Burgold]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

We got the steak aisle.  We got the burger aisle.  If we can't get the steak then we got no choice but to go to the burger aisle.  and my favorites on that front would be in order Mariota, Fitzpatrick, Winston.  I'd be happy for different reasons with any of the three.  And its not because i am pretending a burger is steak.  But heck if that ends up the hand dealt, then I have certain ones i like within that category.

 

I don't see Winston as making a big leap. There's a reason he got benched and he has been a starter for many years. For that reason, I am also iffy on Mariota, but for some reason less so. Maybe it's the modern trend of mobile QBs and that Rivera has stressed that as a quality he likes in his QB. Fitz is fine if the brain trust needs a safety blanket.

 

Given what you're showing me in the burgle aisle, I'm pausing to glance one row over. Do we dare? Is Heinike our veggie burger?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Being a little more serious, I would not trade major assets for Winston or Marritota. I'm okay with Fitz or other placeholders who don't require draft picks to get. Part of me still thinks the best way to go is Heinicke, Allen, or someone like Smith plus the best raw second or third round high potential QB prospect you can get your hands on. I don't really like the idea of trading up for Mac Jones or Lance. If one falls, I'm okay.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

No thank you on Toney. Going to be vastly overdrafted. Give me Chase (pipe dream), Bateman, Moore, or a discount w/Terrence Marshall or an even bigger discount w/ T. Terry. If we want slot, Amari Rogers x10000.  

 

  I like Toney but not until the 2nd round.  Injuries worry me about him considering the style he plays in.  I like all the other WRs you mention, too.  It's a big time deep WR class.  So I don't want a receiver in the first.  I think Matt Miller's point who you quoted is they are looking to add weapons.   

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am close to this take.  I do think you get more highs than lows from Fitzpatrick.   If by chance we make it to the post season, he might just be the type of a dude who can get hot at the right time.   He's streaky but he's a fun ride when he does get hot.  And he tends to get hot in some big games.  So that's my most optimistic take of him.  

 

I just think there is a chance we will be shopping in that aisle of the supermarket.  I am not so convinced other Stafford like opportunities surface.  I am ok with trading up in the draft but we have a long way to climb from 19 so I am not optimistic.

 

As for the Heinicke is the guy group (I know you aren't among them), if Rivera was sold he's the solution, then I would be, too.  But clearly, he thinks he could upgrade.  

 

The Dolphins O line is young and likely will improve but it still was bad last year.  Their O line near the bottom by PFF and it looked it too.  Miami's weapions arguably worse than ours.   You give Fitz a better O line like he has here.  We upgrade at receiver.  I don't think it would be a disaster.  

 

 

 

 

 

I know I come across as harsh on the Heinicke thing, but I actually am pretty close to where you are on it: if Rivera said "Yeah we think he's the guy" I'd be much more comfortable with rolling with him and trying to surround him with talent. I'd still be a bit worried about things like his durability, but Rivera and his people have forgotten more football than I know so I'd take their word for it.

 

For Fitz, yeah I do like watching him play, and he can get hot...and often in big games, you're right. So we could do worse. If we are indeed in that aisle, then he's probably a decent bet. But I can just see the game day threads now when Fitz is on a cold streak... "PICKPATRICK STRIKES AGAIN! YOU LOSER!" 

Edited February 19, 2021 by mistertim

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

I know I come across as harsh on the Heinicke thing, but I actually am pretty close to where you are on it: if Rivera said "Yeah we think he's the guy"

I'm not sure what Rivera is thinking (which may mean you are correct.) So far, all we know for sure is that Washington has not done enough to swing a deal. They were supposedly in the Stafford chase, but bowed out of the auction. Were they ever in the Wentz chase? Are they looking at Watson, Darnold, etc? The lack of moves or the unwillingness to pay a premium could be a sign that Rivera is looking for an upgrade, but doesn't want to overpay. It also could be a backhanded compliment to how he feels about Heinike. He may be saying I don't have to overpay because if I lose out I am okay rolling with the beer man.

 

Still, while I would love Heinicke (I think I spell his name differently every time) to be this generation's Warner or even Tom Brady IE unheralded guy whose feet fit Cinderella's slipper perfectly. Going into the season with him after 1.5 games is one heck of a risky dice toss.

 

I guess the biggest question is what do you think this team's ceiling is in 2021? If you think it's a team ready for a deep playoff run with the addition of a good QB then I think you do look harder at Mariotta and the others. If you think we're still missing a bunch of pieces and still building the culture, then it's tougher to justify giving up the assets and may be worth the risk of going with lesser known quantities.

[skinny21]

No offense to the most ardent Heinicke supporters, but I think it would be asinine of Rivera to believe he’s our guy moving forward.  With that said, I don’t think Rivera/the FO being in the qb market is an automatic mark against Heinicke.  Rivera was clearly impressed with his play, but spoke about the ‘nothing to lose’ mentality, and I’m sure he has his doubts given Heinicke was on the street a month before.  I am curious about the behind the scenes side of things - how many reps he received in practices and the quality of them under Rivers/Turner.  They can’t have been too impressed if they added Montez and traded for Allen when Heinicke was available.  Of course, he was the one they brought in once the qb room was decimated... was it purely knowledge of the system?  Or was it more than that?  Gonna be interesting to see this all play out.