Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[kingdaddy]

On 5/22/2021 at 5:19 PM, LetThePointsSoar said:

Rewatching the playoff game against Tampa. We went toe to toe with the Super Bowl Champs with a whole lot of drive killing drops from both the Sims plus a very hobbled Antonio Gibson. 

 

This team just might be something special this year, kids. 

Funny, I watched the Thanksgiving game in Dallas last night. The difference between Alex Smith alone is going to make this season very exciting. Alex threw short passes almost all game, every game and Fitz will do much more than that. I expect our offense to be very potent given our additions at QB, WR and on the line...upgrades in each of those areas. I also expect Gibson to be better. 

 

[CjSuAvE22]

38 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

When he is 29?  Sounds like a long shot.

Age is just a number look at kurt warner tons of young qbs burn out as well.

[Silvernon]

30 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

When he is 29?  Sounds like a long shot.

Why not?

 

What if you roll with Fitz for two years and Heinicke for the third?

 

If Heinicke is injured or doesn't cut it then you have your higher draft pick and you go get your QB with an experienced and elite D. If he does play well, they're deep in the playoffs and out of reach of elite talent.

 

Maybe Heinicke only plays at a starting level for one or two years, but that might be okay. Rookie QBs buy regimes and coaches time but often fail to produce results (winning).

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I fundamentally disagree with Keim on the “if they don’t go after one next year it’s a mistake” line, though it’s kind of a catch-22.

 

They went after one this year and got out bid, then they didn’t sell the farm for guys they liked and didn’t love. So... that could happen again. 
 

That’s where I agree with Keim. If the guy isn’t there then you can’t force. 
 

I think they have to approach every year with the “can’t find? Build. Find? Do it.” Mantra. That will keep this team with a good foundation for a long time and eventually it will click into place.

 

By the way Keim didn’t help himself by not giving a clear answer to the Fitz/Heine question. Almost could guess he means Fitz is better and it’s not close but really he left the door open for interpretation there. A guy who’s been around that long usually doesn’t leave that kind of opening.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I fundamentally disagree with Keim on the “if they don’t go after one next year it’s a mistake” line, though it’s kind of a catch-22.

 

They went after one this year and got out bid, then they didn’t sell the farm for guys they liked and didn’t love. So... that could happen again. 
 

That’s where I agree with Keim. If the guy isn’t there then you can’t force. 
 

I think they have to approach every year with the “can’t find? Build. Find? Do it.” Mantra. That will keep this team with a good foundation for a long time and eventually it will click into place.

 

By the way Keim didn’t help himself by not giving a clear answer to the Fitz/Heine question. Almost could guess he means Fitz is better and it’s not close but really he left the door open for interpretation there. A guy who’s been around that long usually doesn’t leave that kind of opening.

 

Fizpatrick to me is the wildcard.   I like Heinicke but I wouldn't consider myself though a Heinicke Hive guy because I got some concerns about his durability.  And also it strikes me that Rivera decided not to ride with Heincike as the guy for now and I figure he knows him best.    But I don't rule Heinicke out.  

 

I am with the you almost always need a great QB to win a SB crowd.  However, I've actually moonlighted since the Fitz signing with the you don't need a great QB to win a SB crowd -- only for this reason which is I think there are exceptions and Fitz is almost the perfect example of the type of QB that in my mind could do it even though he isn't elite.   Not that I'd bet on it but it doesn't strike me crazy.  Felt good to hear a PFF guy echo my same point about Fitz not long ago.   The reason I liked hearing it from PFF is becuase they are generally big time snobbish on believing its QB or bust.    So it made me feel that I am not crazy on this.  .  

 

The theory behind it is the type of QB that can be one of the outlier SB winner types isn't a game manager but instead a QB who is streaky and gets hot at the right time.  Fitz to me fits that mold.  So i've backed off some of the QB or bust mindset I often have.  

 

My wildest football fantasy would be they'd have a good season but probably not a SB season.  And Fitz would show enough  to indicate that if you beef up the roster some more -- maybe 2022 could be a big run at the big dance.  Again I wouldn't bet on it but it doesn't sound crazy.  And judging by some of Rivera's comments, I don't think he sees it crazy either considering he's mentioned that Fitz could be the guy more than a year.

 

Now if Fitz/Heinicke/Allen struggle.  I do think they should be aggressive in the off season.  The roster is too strong elsewhere to let the QB waste this roster.  But I am somewhat optimistic that Fitz will play well and next off season we won't feel that desperate.  And if so it would play into your point which is go with the flow and don't overpay or force it. 

 

I've heard Keim interviewed some as for how he covers the team.    My impression is Keim will almost never give his own opinion about stuff.  He's just about always referencing a source even if he doesn't say he is.   So he's probably echoing someone he speaks to. 

 

I try to be  forgiving with reporters like Keim because I know a little bit about their business from the back end.  In my business, I can be a source from time to time.  And when I do that, I am typically giving my honest take as for background information but not everyone in the same organization sees it the same way I do.  And things can change over time and sometimes quickly.    So nothing is ever gospel.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

• Fitzpatrick is a tinkerer and a talker. On multiple occasions he seemed to be talking with his new pass catchers, and before one individual drill rep with Logan Thomas, the veteran quarterback stopped the tight end to talk through positioning on the route. Washington signed Fitzpatrick to be a steady hand at the game's most important position, and at least in late May, he seems quite comfortable in that role. 

 

The Athletic

 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

Frankly, I don’t know what exactly to think of Fitzpatrick in terms of expectations.  What I do know is that in a Venn diagram of leadership, talent, experience, cost (draft picks/cap), future (short vs long term, placeholder vs franchise qb), character (on and off the field, in-season and off-season), style of play (aggressive vs conservative), competitive window, etc. - Fitzpatrick is a heck of a good pick up for us.  Low risk, high reward, and ticks just about every box.  

Sure, longevity and talent level (he’s not a top 5) are issues/concerns, or at least not ideal, but landing that caliber of placeholder with almost no negative impact on our resources is massive.

[Chris 44]

18 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

 

By the way Keim didn’t help himself by not giving a clear answer to the Fitz/Heine question. Almost could guess he means Fitz is better and it’s not close but really he left the door open for interpretation there. A guy who’s been around that long usually doesn’t leave that kind of opening.

Yeah that response left me guessing, a little miffed at the way he left it out there. From what was tweeted Heinekie looked good yesterday. But who knows, first practice of OTA's, hedging his bets I guess?.

[evmiii]

I think TH will always look good in shorts and no contact.  He is a smart and confident young man and he knows the offense.  His problem has always been durability.  In both chances to play before he got to the WFT he played well until he got hurt.  He got hurt in the first game he played in Washington, but was able to play hurt in the playoff game.  He’s not a very big guy and puts everything he’s got into every game, not an equation for longevity.

 

His style makes him the perfect backup to Fitz this year; I see similarities in their styles.  Fitz will be the starter as long as he is physically able, but I am confident TH could fill in if required.  I’m not sure where Allen fits into the scheme, but I am sure that the WFT is still looking for there franchise QB.

 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

On 5/24/2021 at 12:52 PM, Silvernon said:

Why not?

 

What if you roll with Fitz for two years and Heinicke for the third?

 

If Heinicke is injured or doesn't cut it then you have your higher draft pick and you go get your QB with an experienced and elite D. If he does play well, they're deep in the playoffs and out of reach of elite talent.

 

Maybe Heinicke only plays at a starting level for one or two years, but that might be okay. Rookie QBs buy regimes and coaches time but often fail to produce results (winning).

I see what you are saying and yes that could happen...but that can’t be plan A and probably shouldn’t be plan B either. Three seasons from now we have no idea if this DEF is going to be “elite”. I mean, it’s not even elite now and three years is a lifetime in the NFL.

[redskins4ever28]

Fitzpatrick is mediocre at best. I don’t think TH can get through a full season healthy.

i don’t understand why we don’t make a push for Rodgers. I would offer 2 1sts ina heartbeat and not think twice about it.  People over value draft picks imo 

[Burgundy Yoda]

31 minutes ago, redskins4ever28 said:

Fitzpatrick is mediocre at best. I don’t think TH can get through a full season healthy.

i don’t understand why we don’t make a push for Rodgers. I would offer 2 1sts ina heartbeat and not think twice about it.  People over value draft picks imo 

The team has already shown they're willing to offer draft picks for QBs, they offered a 1st and a 3rd for Stafford. We really don't know what the asking price is for Aaron Rodgers, but a 37 year old QB that could break down at any point, it's fair to say there should be a limit on what's offered for him.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[MisterPinstripe]

2 hours ago, redskins4ever28 said:

Fitzpatrick is mediocre at best. I don’t think TH can get through a full season healthy.

i don’t understand why we don’t make a push for Rodgers. I would offer 2 1sts ina heartbeat and not think twice about it.  People over value draft picks imo 

Two firsts would not get Aaron Rodgers.

[LD0506]

19 hours ago, redskins4ever28 said:

Fitzpatrick is mediocre at best. I don’t think TH can get through a full season healthy.

i don’t understand why we don’t make a push for Rodgers. I would offer 2 1sts ina heartbeat and not think twice about it.  People over value draft picks imo 

 

We'll be revisiting these comments around Halloween......

[Thinking Skins]

If anybody still wants Jamie Newman, he was cut by the eagles

[Andre The Giant]

Schein not a fan of the QB room. 
 

 

[LD0506]

That will not age well Schein...

[RWJ]

Love me some Fitz!  Bold prediction!  TH will be the starter w/in 3 games of the season opener.  

[mistertim]

17 hours ago, RWJ said:

Love me some Fitz!  Bold prediction!  TH will be the starter w/in 3 games of the season opener.  

 

[88Comrade2000]

If RR was wrong on the QB room; he will be on the hot seat in 22 and if not corrected he will be gone after 22.  

[Rex Tomb]

On 6/12/2021 at 9:58 AM, Andre The Giant said:

Schein not a fan of the QB room. 
 

 

Who gives a flying rats ass about what Ad Schein thinks.  His takes are garbage, and he's a huge donk. Couldn't stand him when he was on Sirius XM and I can't stand him now.  He's been dead wrong way more than he's ever been even remotely right.

[RWJ]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Just a hunch and nothing more that TH will pick up the O quickly and outplay Fitz overall.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Just a hunch and nothing more that TH will pick up the O quickly and outplay Fitz overall.

 

Fitz is an extremely smart dude who has spent most of his career quickly picking up new offenses.

 

TH has some experience with Turner and from last season, but I doubt there will be much difference, and any difference will likely be made up quickly by Fitz.

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Fitz is an extremely smart dude who has spent most of his career quickly picking up new offenses.

 

TH has some experience with Turner and from last season, but I doubt there will be much difference, and any difference will likely be made up quickly by Fitz.

You could be spot on right Tim.  I am just speculating.