BBC: China pneumonia outbreak: COVID-19 Global Pandemic

[No Excuses]

20 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

More fundamentally, you keep ignoring the point that the issue with masks (and anything worn on the face) is that for untrained and undisciplined people, that aren't likely going to be able to change out their masks regularly, it is an assumption that wearing a mask actually is protection and doesn't actually result in them touching their face and things that are going to end up touching their face a lot more.  You want to see somebody get a large viral exposure dose, have them put their mask down on something where a lot of the virus is, get it on the mask, and then put the mask back on their face.  That would be worse than the normal behavior with a hand (i.e. you touch something with the virus on it and then touch your face) because of the constant contact of the mask.  And for those people, wearing a mask actually increases risks.

 

This is a buttload of assumptions not backed up by any data (and also a very dim view of the public in general, I don't think people are that careless). Every developed Asian country encourages mask wearing during flu season and the data shows that this behavior helps reduce spread of disease. We should be encouraging the public here to adopt the same behaviors, for now and into the future. Mask wearing and mask hygeine is not a very difficult concept to communicate to the public. And it seems like the CDC accepts this too, since they seem to be getting ready to encourage public mask wearing.

 

Also, you knew what I meant:

 

On 3/30/2020 at 12:00 PM, PeterMP said:

And I'm not at all sure that there's ever a relationship between the amount of initial viral exposure and the viral load at the height of the disease for any virus. 

 

And my point never was that lower initial viral exposure leads to less viral load at the height of disease, just that initial exposure does have an effect on the severity of disease because the immune system isn't overwhelmed from the get-go. This is what I said, which makes no mention of viral load at the height of disease:

 

Quote

Even if this means that potentially infected people are infected with a lower viral load, which does make a difference in the severity of viral diseases. 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by No Excuses

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No doubt, when he started yesterday I said to my wife, "this might be his first reasonable presser he's done yet" and within a few minutes, he was having it out with the media.  Should have known I spoke to soon.

 

I think by now we should know that he'll never change as long as he draws breath. Even when he's managed to stumble through an entire prepared speech without saying something stupid, offensive, racist, ignorant, or all of the above, the very next day (or more often that very night) he'll jump on Twitter and return to form. It cracks me up that there are ostensibly legit news/commentary sources who still say things like "This is Trump's chance to finally act presidential". Give me a ****ing break. Over 3 years in and NOW you actually think he's going to start acting "presidential"? 

[China]

A Couple Drove 5,000 KM to Yukon to Escape Coronavirus. Locals Were Furious

 

Old Crow, the northernmost community in Yukon, is seething after two uninvited guests showed up in spite of warnings not to come.

 

At around 10 a.m. on Friday, an Air North flight brought two Quebeckers to the Arctic community.

 

“We were busy dealing with a life-altering pandemic, and this couple just strolls off the plane like cartoon characters,” said the chief of the Vuntut Gwitchin First Nation, Dana Tizya-Tramm.

 

The couple told Tizya-Tramm they were trying to escape the pandemic. He said they sold everything they owned, drove the 5,000-plus kilometres from Quebec to Whitehorse, and boarded a plane to Old Crow. VICE was not able to reach the pair for comment.

 

Chief Tizya-Tramm said the couple "couldn't be older than 35."

 

Old Crow is a fly-in, self-governing community 80 kilometres north of the Arctic Circle, and is home to just 250 people. Like many remote and northern communities, Old Crow has asked people not to come there in order to limit the potential for bringing COVID-19 with them.

 

The Yukon government, meanwhile, had just declared a state of emergency, and requires any visitors to the territory to self-isolate for 14 days upon arrival. The couple had apparently not done so.

 

The couple told Tizya-Tramm they had decided on Old Crow after one of them had a dream pointing them there.

 

“He literally dreamed this up,” Tizya-Tramm said.

 

The dream was cut short when the pair was met at the airport by Paul Josie, Old Crow’s emergency management coordinator. Josie has been meeting every plane that arrives to distribute information on the virus, and intercepted the couple as they were getting off the plane.

 

“They thought they could come to Old Crow and find a job and find a place to live,” Josie said.

 

The couple was escorted to the local Co-op store, which has two small apartments it rents out to healthcare workers, mechanics, or other visiting staff. The RCMP gave the two visitors strict instructions not to leave, and put them on the next flight out of Old Crow to Whitehorse, on Sunday, without going through the airport, according to Tizya-Tramm. VICE was not able to determine whether they were released upon their arrival in Whitehorse.

 

Quebec has reported a surge in COVID-19 cases in the past week, jumping to 2,840 cases as of March 29. Travel has been restricted to some areas and Montreal has declared a state of emergency.

 

But Quebec is also much better prepared to handle the virus. Old Crow, with elders making up about a fifth of its population, does not have a doctor. It is also struggling with an ongoing housing crisis, and construction on new buildings has been shut down now due to the virus.

 

Even if housing had been available, the community was not in its usual welcoming mood, Tizya-Tramm said.

 

“When you stepped off the plane, you stepped into Vuntut Gwitchin territory. You are now on our land,” he recalled telling the couple. “We control the housing.”

 

He said the couple had plans to live off the land, but no notion of what that actually entailed in the Arctic.

 

“Living on the land here is dangerous. It’s not like you wake up in the morning and birds dress you. It’s cold, it’s dangerous; you have to track and hunt animals,” he said. “Our community is not some COVID-19 haven.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

[China]

In case your were still wondering about the accuracy of reported COVID-19 cases, the Pentagon is now ordering military bases to stop reporting:

 

SC military bases will stop publicly announcing coronavirus cases following Pentagon order

 

South Carolina military bases will stop publicly reporting the number of positive cases of the coronavirus at their installations because of a order from the Pentagon. 

 

The nationwide order was announced by the Department of Defense shortly after Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island and Army Basic Training Command at Fort Jackson reported an explosion of positive tests in the double digits. 

 

“As we confront this growing crisis, and out of a concern for operational security with regard to readiness, we will not report the aggregate number of individual service member cases at individual unit, base or Combatant Commands,” Defense Press Secretary Alyssa Farah said in a statement Monday night. 

 

But under the Pentagon’s new orders, the number of growing cases on the base will only be known by the S.C. Department of Health and Environmental Control as well as the military branch associated with the installation and the Pentagon. It’s not clear if DHEC would include those numbers in its statewide or county tallies.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]

See?  We are able to learn some things from China's response to the virus.  

[spjunkies]

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 hours ago, Springfield said:

I think there's probably a fine line between "I have coronavirus symptoms" and "I've got a little cough, it's nothing to worry about" or "my allergies are acting up".

 

I'd agree. It's easy to judge a guy from a story like this, but it's completely another thing to know how to act in the moment. When giving advice, it's pretty easy to say "immediately leave your pregnant wife's bedside when you start to feel a little sick!! We're in the midst of a pandemic after all!!" 

 

[bcl05]

damn.  cut ant pasting not cooperating.  Apparently work computer can't handle simultaneous ES and zoom meeting.  

Edited March 31, 2020 by bcl05

[Llevron]

It actually makes sense to me that our military not publicly report the cases especially from particular bases. Maybe not as much locally, but any information that can be collected on our military bases publicly is a security risk. I would think the entire base being ravaged by cooties is good info for an enemy or anyone seeking to do harm to have. 

 

Thats what I think at least I have no idea how accurate that is 

[bcl05]

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/opinion/coronavirus-cases-united-states.html

 

This NYT article is what I was trying to cut and paste from.

 

The bottom line is that we suck at this.  Some difference may be from testing differences (though testing in both Spain and Italy appears far more consistent and aggressive than here) and from reporting differences (I don't trust China's data at all), but mainly the fact that the US is full of idiots.  And led by a moron.

 

[Mr. Sinister]

44 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

 

Happyhappyjoyjoy

[ClaytoAli]

Dr. Marc Siegel said on Tuesday that he prefers constant hand sanitization and washing over wearing gloves for safety purposes during the coronavirus outbreak. 
 

"Gloves accumulate germs, gloves accumulate viruses," Siegel told "Fox & Friends," responding to a viewer's question about whether wearing gloves at the grocery store is necessary.

 

"You're going to not even realize when you touch something then you have it on the gloves, then you transfer it to your face, then you can get infected," he explained.

Siegel said that gloves are not necessarily the right answer.

"You can't change them enough to make a difference so I vote 'no' on that one. Yes, on the continued hand-washing."

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/siegel-wearing-gloves-grocery-store-coronavirus

 

I saw a lady touching her  face with glove on in the grocery store yesterday.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Theodore Roosevelt captain makes urgent plea for individual quarantine sites as COVID-19 cases multiply

 

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/03/31/theodore-roosevelt-captain-makes-urgent-plea-for-individual-quarantine-sites-as-covid-19-cases-multiply/

[FrFan]

 

[Riggo-toni]

Okay, update/correction on my wife's best friend and her husband who apparently have it - I was mistaken about him testing positive - He was actually refused testing, but was told his symptoms indicate he has it, and ...he was told to monitor his lips to see if they turn blue, indicating a lack of oxygen, and if so he could go to the emergency room, BUT, he would need to call first!   

 

WTF. Seriously, wtf?

[No Excuses]

13 minutes ago, bcl05 said:

The bottom line is that we suck at this.  Some difference may be from testing differences (though testing in both Spain and Italy appears far more consistent and aggressive than here) and from reporting differences (I don't trust China's data at all), but mainly the fact that the US is full of idiots.  And led by a moron.

 

We are testing more people per capita than any other country now, which is a good thing. But I still think it’s not enough. And we really, really badly need to start serological testing soon. I am willing to bet at this point that our total infection # has surpassed a million and that’s a ton of people who could be eligible to donate plasma.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

 

I saw a lady touching her  face with glove on in the grocery store yesterday.

 

It seems like there are people who see gloves as having some sort of virus deflector shield as opposed to something that can pick up a virus just as easily, but you can simply then remove and dispose of afterwards. I wear gloves to the supermarket but I'm very mindful of my hands when I do so. I wear glasses so I have to be careful not to adjust them with my hands when I'm there and using gloves. I usually just use my forearm. 

[bcl05]

I was in the grocery store the other day and there was a lady walking around with gloves on who was also holding a (dirty-looking) rag over her mouth and nose.  Every time she would pick up produce or other groceries, she would put the rag down on her cart or on the shelf.  Then she would pick it back up and hold it to her face.  It was as if she was trying  to get sick.

 

 

[Larry]

8 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

We are testing more people per capita than any other country now

 

Are we?  

 

If so, that might be one of the few pieces of good news abut this whole thing.  I just haven't actually seen any place I trust, saying it.  

[tshile]

Random comment from friend:

”they should just put chick-fil-a in charge of testing”

[LadySkinsFan]

38 minutes ago, Llevron said:

It actually makes sense to me that our military not publicly report the cases especially from particular bases. Maybe not as much locally, but any information that can be collected on our military bases publicly is a security risk. I would think the entire base being ravaged by cooties is good info for an enemy or anyone seeking to do harm to have. 

 

Thats what I think at least I have no idea how accurate that is 

 

That makes sense, I hope that information is recorded someplace and reported military number of cases and deaths worldwide after this first wave is reported to the public. We don't need where, except if it affects local populations where the military personnel and their families shop etc.

[PCS]

 

Speaking on the rural thing,I share the same experiences as tshile and ghost have.  

[mistertim]

Watching Trump take credit for everything good that happens and talk about it like it's the most amazing thing ever done reminds of of that Chris Rock bit. Just replace the n word with "Trump".

 

Trump: "We're making ways to test for a virus! We may even be stopping some people from dying! All hail me!"

 

The rest of the world: "YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO, YOU DUMB MOTHER ****ER"

 

 

 

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

 

This is a buttload of assumptions not backed up by any data (and also a very dim view of the public in general, I don't think people are that careless). Every developed Asian country encourages mask wearing during flu season and the data shows that this behavior helps reduce spread of disease. We should be encouraging the public here to adopt the same behaviors, for now and into the future. Mask wearing and mask hygeine is not a very difficult concept to communicate to the public. And it seems like the CDC accepts this too, since they seem to be getting ready to encourage public mask wearing.

I don't think there's any data that suggest that Asian countries in general are less susceptible to viral outbreaks, including things like the flu.  That would be big news and be a very nice study.  Mostly in the likes of Japan, it is sick people that wear masks, which does seem to work (China is a little different in that there a lot of people do it because of air pollution.), but I don't know of any evidence that it really works at a total population level.

 

Certainly, this disease had no problem spreading in China before they put in place massive social distancing requirements and in South Korea before they did the same and implemented widespread testing.

 

I've taught undergraduate chemistry labs, including to the likes of nursing students and pre-med students.  I have some experience with trying to get people that aren't even representative of the general population to properly use PPE.

 

And you can see how poorly the public is doing know with following basic social distancing guidelines.  

 

I'm not claiming that it is backed, but data, but realistically, your claim isn't either.

[Yohan]

I went Fat Biking yesterday, the weather was decent enough, it had been raining, windy and chili for the better part of the past 10 days, and I needed to get out of the house and in to nature for a bit. Disappointed that the mountain bike/hiking trails have become littered with gloves and masks, right in the middle of the trails. These particular trails have trash bins every quarter mile or so. Not sure the point of wearing these types of equipment while in the middle of the woods, but dang, throw your stuff away in its proper place.