2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

Was thinking about next year's thread and process a little seeing how we're close to the finish line with the 2020 class.

 

I'm going to take a different approach this year. I need to be more organized than I was this year... coaching (hopefully we have a season), work, 2 kids and a semblance of a social life is a lot to try to get things accomplished.

 

Thinking of a shared Google Spreadsheet with the prospects we post about in this thread. Or something to keep the prospects listed somewhere so we don't lose sight of them.

 

Personally, it'll help me grade/tier these guys much easier. It'll also give us a look at often overlooked guys that we tend to miss towards this time of the year.

 

Whether we have an ES conglomerate enter the actual draft analyst community or we just do this for ****s and giggles, I think all of us football heads would benefit from having more organization. 

 

The top 3/top 20 project we have going is a fun step, I think. I hope we get a lot of participation. 

 

Getting guys on the radar early AND keeping them documented will really help I think. 

 

 

[Going Commando]

Cam Akers has bad competitive habits.  My worry with him is that they've taken root and they're coming with him to the NFL.  He feels like damaged goods.

 

I like Edwards-Helaire over him for sure.  Strongly agree with @KDawg's comparison of Mark Ingram.  He's a clone of him and has 10 year NFL vet written on him.  I think he's going to have a relatively easy transition to the next level because he fits so well into any rotation and has a high football IQ.

 

I would put Swift and probably Dobbins above him too though.  Dobbins looks like a really strong ZBS prospect who is particularly good on outside zone runs.  Real edge juice paired with decisiveness and power.  There were few things more thrilling this season than seeing him make his cut on an off tackle run with a good crease.  He's got some Aaron Jones in him, but he looks noticeably faster than Jones.  I think he could have put up a 4.4 at the combine if he'd been able to train and work out.  I wish he had more wiggle and creativity though.  You're usually only getting one move with him, and it means he doesn't leave a lot of yards on the field but it limits how many housecalls he can give you at the next level when his blocking won't create as much room for him.  It puts him firmly behind Swift and Taylor for me.

 

I was a good deal higher on Dobbins than CEH earlier in the offseason, but I've gotten much higher on CEH since.  I would put them in the same tier now, and wouldn't trash a man for preferring CEH to Dobbins.  If you're zone heavy and want the guy with better ability to reach the edge, go with Dobbins.  If you want the guy with more creativity and versatility, go with CEH.  IMO both are worthy of being drafted in the 45-60 range.

 

Taylor is a top 20 player in the class IMO.  Swift deserves to go somewhere between 20-45.  After the top four, I prefer Moss, Dillon, Benjamin, and McFarland in that order.  I would shy away from Akers because of said damaged goods issue.  He's going to get drafted too high for my comfort level.  Moss and Dillon are top 100 worthy, although I still see Dillon typically getting picked in the fourth and fifth rounds in all of the mocks I've done.  That makes him the best value candidate of the bunch IMO.

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Cam Akers has bad competitive habits.  My worry with him is that they've taken root and they're coming with him to the NFL.  He feels like damaged goods.

 

I like Edwards-Helaire over him for sure.  Strongly agree with @KDawg's comparison of Mark Ingram.  He's a clone of him and has 10 year NFL vet written on him.  I think he's going to have a relatively easy transition to the next level because he fits so well into any rotation and has a high football IQ.

 

I would put Swift and probably Dobbins above him too though.  Dobbins looks like a really strong ZBS prospect who is particularly good on outside zone runs.  Real edge juice paired with decisiveness and power.  There were few things more thrilling this season than seeing him make his cut on an off tackle run with a good crease.  He's got some Aaron Jones in him, but he looks noticeably faster than Jones.  I think he could have put up a 4.4 at the combine if he'd been able to train and work out.  I wish he had more wiggle and creativity though.  You're usually only getting one move with him, and it means he doesn't leave a lot of yards on the field but it limits how many housecalls he can give you at the next level when his blocking won't create as much room for him.  It puts him firmly behind Swift and Taylor for me.

 

I was a good deal higher on Dobbins than CEH earlier in the offseason, but I've gotten much higher on CEH since.  I would put them in the same tier now, and wouldn't trash a man for preferring CEH to Dobbins.  If you're zone heavy and want the guy with better ability to reach the edge, go with Dobbins.  If you want the guy with more creativity and versatility, go with CEH.  IMO both are worthy of being drafted in the 45-60 range.

 

Taylor is a top 20 player in the class IMO.  Swift deserves to go somewhere between 20-45.  After the top four, I prefer Moss, Dillon, Benjamin, and McFarland in that order.  I would shy away from Akers because of said damaged goods issue.  He's going to get drafted too high for my comfort level.  Moss and Dillon are top 100 worthy, although I still see Dillon typically getting picked in the fourth and fifth rounds in all of the mocks I've done.  That makes him the best value candidate of the bunch IMO.

 

I am in 100% agreement with all of this. From 1-4 ranking wise as well. 

 

I got Taylor, Swift, Dobbins, CEH, Moss, Benjamin, Dillon, James Robinson (Ill. State), Booger Jr, Evans, Guerriero (Monmouth), and THEN Akers. 

 

I'm very back and forth on CEH vs. Dobbins, Dillon vs. Benjamin vs. Robinson vs. Booger vs. Guerriero vs. Evans. That next 7 after CEH/Dobbins is fairly interchangeable. A few other backs make me think about that, too... Like Sewo.

 

[bowhunter]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Was thinking about next year's thread and process a little seeing how we're close to the finish line with the 2020 class.

 

I'm going to take a different approach this year. I need to be more organized than I was this year... coaching (hopefully we have a season), work, 2 kids and a semblance of a social life is a lot to try to get things accomplished.

 

 

First) I agree that it's easier if each position group has their own thread in addition to the main thread. It will be easier to track and allow greater room for the inevitable debates about our needs at each position group and possibly help clutter of the main thread.

Second) Please let me tell you how much I appreciate all of the work you do for this board. We all have lives to lead, yet you and many others still find time to consistently contribute to this board. That allows me to drop in for an hour or two each day and read up on all of the good stuff.  Thanks

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

First) I agree that it's easier if each position group has their own thread in addition to the main thread. It will be easier to track and allow greater room for the inevitable debates about our needs at each position group and possibly help clutter of the main thread.

Second) Please let me tell you how much I appreciate all of the work you do for this board. We all have lives to lead, yet you and many others still find time to consistently contribute to this board. That allows me to drop in for an hour or two each day and read up on all of the good stuff.  Thanks

Wouldn’t do separate threads. Would clog the board. But a “database” google sheet would help with that. Different tabs for each position group. Maybe some links for videos, etc. 

 

And to be honest I can only speak for myself but it’s fun for me to do all of this. I’m sure that’s the case with all of us football nerds. 
 

Love the game and this forum.

 

Hope you’re planning to participate in the ES Conglomerate Draft Rankings I posted about last page!

[Going Commando]

Last year, one of the biggest complaints about Dwayne Haskins was about his supporting cast being too good and that it was carrying him.

 

When all is said and done, I think Dobbins might end up being his highest drafted teammate on offense, going somewhere in the 40s or 50s.  And he didn't play that well in 2018.  Olave is good too, but was buried way down the depth chart as a true freshman.  No day one or day two offensive linemen either.

 

Compare that to what Kyler, Tua, and Burrow were working with.  Burrow had two first round receivers, plus CEH, and three day two worthy OLs.  Murray had Lamb and Hollywood Brown plus two top 100 OLs and two more taken in the 4th round, and a center who would have been the top IOL in this year's draft if he'd declared.  And it's going to be a while before we see the kind of collection of offensive talent that Tua got to play with come together on one college team again.  It was equivalent to that 2001 Miami Hurricanes offensive depth chart.  Four top 50 picks in '18 and '19.  Three more coming this year.  Three or four more coming in 2021 when Leatherwood, Waddle, Smitty, and Najee Harris go pro.

 

Tua hasn't gotten hit with the supporting cast red flag for some reason.  The criticism of Haskins was inconsistent and unfair.

[HTTRDynasty]

6 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Been looking through the remaining free agents available. Sure, there will also be some surprise roster cuts. Feels to like we need to leave the draft having specifically picked up talent/competition at WR,LB,FS

 

We need to add a couple of receivers, LB just looks a bit of an unknown mess, and given the pedigree of RR and JDR at the position, an impact LB must be on the cards, plus with Davis being anointed FS starter, it’s actually looks like Fuller is the emergency cover. Draft a FS as back-up.

I would change FS to TE, but I agree on WR and LB... specifically MLB. 
 

At FS, I actually liked what I saw from Apke on my recent re-watch of all the games. I think he has a real chance to start over Davis midway through the season, once he has time to prove himself to this new staff. 

[KillBill26]

15 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

@stevemcqueen1 @volsmet @Fresh8686 @Anselmheifer @Skinsinparadise @HTTRDynasty @Alcoholic Zebra @RWJ @Morrison J @COWBOY-KILLA-@drowland @murphys4life @bedlamVR @PartyPosse @duffy @skinny21 @KillBill26 @Chump Bailey @Skin'emAlive@DWinzit @Burgundy Yoda @JamesMadisonSkins

@actorguy1

 

Great idea KD, I'm in.

 

Separate thought, do you guys want to do a mock draft contest?  Not based off who teams should pick, but based on who actually gets picked.  I'm thinking a round or two?   One point for each correct pick at the exact draft slot, two points if the player is taken at that draft slot but by another team (meaning a trade was involved)? 

 

For example:

 

1. Joe burrow.  (1 pt)

2. Chase young.  (1 pt)

3. Tua.   (2 pts bc Miami traded up to take him here)

Etc

 

Or maybe increase points as you get deeper in the draft (the number of points is the number pick? Ie you called that Jordan love gets picked at 23, you get 23 points and the team doesn't matter?   I don't mind collecting submissions and scoring it.  It would have to just be for bragging rights, unless we could get Tom cruises set of steak knives or the Christmas storys fragile leg lamp as a prize.  What do you guys think?

[volsmet]

7 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I think we've all generally been on the Mims is underrated bandwagon since the Senior Bowl, but WR1 is a bit of a stretch.  I think Ceedee and Jeudy are still great prospects if a smidge overhyped.  Mims going higher than them would surprise me.  He's not quite the smooth movers the top 3 guys are.

 

I don't honestly think there's anyway he slips to the 3rd round, but I'm hoping for mass insanity I suppose.

 

I just don't want Philly to grab Mims or the Top 3 WR's.  I want them to grab Shenault, as I think he's likely to struggle.

 

Yeah it’s about a 30:1 long shot, but he’s got production & the size, 40 & 3 cone were absolutely ridiculous ... after dominating the Sr bowl. It only takes one team to fall in love & he’s got size & speed that will almost certainly make him wr1 for somebody; but in a class this deep, there is less reason to take a risk.

 

Van Jefferson in 3 is something I’d be supportive of in DC, I just don’t want @The Consigliere to see this. 😬

[Going Commando]

15 hours ago, KDawg said:

Inside Backer

Outside Backer 

Safety

Corner 

 

I like your idea, but I think this particular positional breakdown might be kind of tough.  Most of the traditional linebackers in the class play weak and strong side as well as inside in enough snaps to make it hard to differentiate between an outside and inside linebacker.  Could we change a category to something like off-ball linebacker or stack linebacker where the differentiation is between them and the edge rush linebackers and then just lump those edge guys in with the hand in the dirt edge rushers? 

 

That would eliminate a category I guess.  Maybe that could be filled with slot defender.  Something like three categories: the safeties who play traditional high and underneath zones and play in the box, the traditional corners who guard receivers on the outside, and then a third category for the overhang and slot guys?  I'm a little unsure of how to categorize guys like Simmons, Wallace, Burgess, and McKinney.  It's like they are neither true safeties nor corners nor linebackers.

[volsmet]

Cam Akers should not let @stevemcqueen1 help him with his match.com profile. 

[KDawg]

@stevemcqueen1 I think part of supporting cast is your coaching staff and schematic advantage. To that point, Haskins was in a spot in college that was literally perfect for him. So I don’t agree that criticism was unfair. It was in line I think.

 

But I DO agree about your point on Tua. This guy had one of the absolute I best supporting casts anyone could ask for. The 3rd string tackle, if he played, could have been a top day or two tackle prospect. Third string. Then talk about the weapons around him. Dude was insulated big time.

 

I think he can play, but he is brittle and he is as protected as anyone. I think you’re fair to bring that up and I agree: his supporting cast was unreal.

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

I am in 100% agreement with all of this. From 1-4 ranking wise as well. 

 

I got Taylor, Swift, Dobbins, CEH, Moss, Benjamin, Dillon, James Robinson (Ill. State), Booger Jr, Evans, Guerriero (Monmouth), and THEN Akers. 

 

I'm very back and forth on CEH vs. Dobbins, Dillon vs. Benjamin vs. Robinson vs. Booger vs. Guerriero vs. Evans. That next 7 after CEH/Dobbins is fairly interchangeable. A few other backs make me think about that, too... Like Sewo.

 

McFarland isn’t a booger relative. 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I like your idea, but I think this particular positional breakdown might be kind of tough.  Most of the traditional linebackers in the class play weak and strong side as well as inside in enough snaps to make it hard to differentiate between an outside and inside linebacker.  Could we change a category to something like off-ball linebacker or stack linebacker where the differentiation is between them and the edge rush linebackers and then just lump those edge guys in with the hand in the dirt edge rushers? 

 

That would eliminate a category I guess.  Maybe that could be filled with slot defender.  Something like three categories: the safeties who play traditional high and underneath zones and play in the box, the traditional corners who guard receivers on the outside, and then a third category for the overhang and slot guys?  I'm a little unsure of how to categorize guys like Simmons, Wallace, Burgess, and McKinney.  It's like they are neither true safeties nor corners nor linebackers.

We can do it any way we want. I envisioned it the way I had it because I figured people could group guys where they envision them more. But I see your point. I’d be interested in other people’s feedback here. I envision OLB to be the Simmons’ of the world in today’s game and the more traditional OLB are more inside backers in nickel and dime packages. But yeah. I hear you there. 
 

Thoughts, people?

3 minutes ago, volsmet said:

McFarland isn’t a booger relative. 

I know. But I enjoy calling him Booger, Jr too much. 

[volsmet]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

@stevemcqueen1 I think part of supporting cast is your coaching staff and schematic advantage. To that point, Haskins was in a spot in college that was literally perfect for him. So I don’t agree that criticism was unfair. It was in line I think.

 

But I DO agree about your point on Tua. This guy had one of the absolute I best supporting casts anyone could ask for. The 3rd string tackle, if he played, could have been a top day or two tackle prospect. Third string. Then talk about the weapons around him. Dude was insulated big time.

 

I think he can play, but he is brittle and he is as protected as anyone. I think you’re fair to bring that up and I agree: his supporting cast was unreal.

I’m not going to get back into Haskins here, he is ours & I hope he’s the guy. Tua’s supporting cast is obscene... Smith may end up the best WR of the group.  Still, I haven’t seen a guy so accurate... on his initial reads. 

[KDawg]

Just now, volsmet said:

I’m not going to get back into Haskins here, he is ours & I hope he’s the guy. Tua’s supporting cast is obscene... Smith may end up the best WR of the group.  Still, I haven’t seen a guy so accurate... on his initial reads. 

I think you and I are lock-step on both prospects. I think the difference is I’m more worried about the injuries and you’re more worried about passing on Brees and both viewpoints are fair. 
 

I think Tua is the best QB in this draft. But his injuries give me great pause.

[HTTRDynasty]

This sort of outcome would be the only one that would tempt me enough to pass on Young.

 

[volsmet]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I know. But I enjoy calling him Booger, Jr too much. 

People always think he is, then argue about it, McFarlands pops only comes up to Boogers waist. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[volsmet]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think you and I are lock-step on both prospects. I think the difference is I’m more worried about the injuries and you’re more worried about passing on Brees and both viewpoints are fair. 
 

I think Tua is the best QB in this draft. But his injuries give me great pause.

I care nothing about his injuries, I question the arm off script & his struggles when read 1 is a no go. Watching the Tua pro day, I liked the movement, but I have no idea where Dilfer comes up with his Rodgers/Marino comment, Tua doesn’t have anything close to those arms... as we all know. 
 

I’d be more than happy having Tua & DH each start 8 games a year for the duration of DHs contract ... I put more emphasis on recovery (physical & mental) & preparation than most, and I don’t care nearly as much about chemistry between a qb & his WRs, QBs are replaced all the time & production increases ... I just want a healthy qb who happens to be incredibly cheap. 
 

Tua’s injuries may actually make me like him more, that guy is tested, on the field & off, his work ethic is nuts, his drive is elite, I think his battles make him more appealing. 

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Top 4 WRs?
 

 

[volsmet]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

Doubt this is legit, but...

 

 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

8 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Doubt this is legit, but...

 

 

Trade down and get Lawrence next year, connect 4 move. 
 

Bengals at 28:1 to draft Tua, in.

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[volsmet]

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Daniel Bituli also.