2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Riggo#44]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yep, here are his rankings for those curious

 

If anyone wants a specific write-up, let me know, I'll post it...unless that's against the rules.

[Malapropismic Depository]

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Definitely a huge and serious issue but if RR and their OL coach are willing to take a chance on him with their later 4th or 5th it might be worth the gamble.  I also like Trey Adams in the 5th as well.  Injuries are his red flags as well all know but the talent is undeniable.  He'd be worth the gamble in the 5th, I believe.  Let him sit and heal but if needed play him.  

Adeniji in 5, trade Trent and grab Bartch. 

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Part of me wonders the same.  He's got the chemistry I'd presume with Haskins.  Seems like we got an Ohio State thing cooking now similar to Alabama. 

 

I like Hill's hands but he's not fast or strong or tough in the open field.  He has a small wingspan.  Small hands.   He seems like he's made for the slot versus playing outside (can he beat press?) but we already got a good slot guy IMO.   The argument for him I'd presume is he seems to thrive on quick in routes, crossers, digs, etc -- that plays into the mesh routes that Haskins feels comfortable with.   

When watching live, K.J. Hill looked awesome - I’d be pleased to add him to our WRs. 

[volsmet]

6 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Ive had some entertaining disagreements with Dilfer, he definitely puts in as much work with QBs as anyone, I weigh his endorsement more heavily than I would most. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

The things about KJ Hill that jump to me when thinking about McLaurin beside the obvious lazy school comp is that he is a good rout runner, has solid hands, and looked very good live. He was just a playmaker in an offense with a lot of weapons. Lot of comparisons to last years OSU WR class in a sense. Except lacking the Paris Campbell at the top of the class but 3 Draftable guys 

[Skin'emAlive]

16 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I think Pittman is a lock to be gone by round 3. 

Dugger doesn’t have superior length or measurables. 

Agreed on Pittman being gone by 66. It’s why I’m thinking more along the lines of Hill in the 4th. 
 

Quote

At 6-foot, 217 pounds, Dugger features 32 7/8-inch arms, a 78 1/2-inch wing span and 10 3/8-inch hands, all of which are the longest or biggest among safeties at the combine.

 

 

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, volsmet said:

When watching live, K.J. Hill looked awesome - I’d be pleased to add him to our WRs. 

 

Live in person or do you mean the Senior Bowl practices on TV?  I got plenty of WRs I'd take over Hill but I don't hate Hill.  My biggest issue with the pick is we arguably need a Z.  I don't see Hill as a natural Z.    He has great hands.   He's not a big YAC guy, not a speed guy, not a power guy.  He seems to be about quick in and out routes in the flat, digs. shallow crossers.  Sort of like Jamison Crowder, better hands than him but less YAC.

 

If we are going with 4th round type WRs if they fall, I'd rather go with a more natural Z than doubling up on the slot.  Tyler Johnson, Collin Johnson, Gandy-Golden.  Hightower is a bit undersized but played some Z and can stretch the field.   

 

Some are saying Harmon might be a bit too slow but he ran the same 40 time as Hill.  And Harmon to me is more of a threat to stretch the field.  

 

I wouldn't hate it if they draft Hill in the 4th but he's not one I'd get excited about either.  Hill to me is the TE version of Colby Parkinson.  I think both guys are OK, and I'd get it.  But in my mind (and naturally I could be wrong) they can do better.

 

And I was one of the rare McLaurin and Harmon people last year before the draft.   And for me I don't see a lot of parallels between McLaurin and Hill.  And I don't see Hill as an improvement at Z or slot over whom we got now.

[Skinsinparadise]

More Tua fodder, this time from the ESPN analytics guys

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29001180/2020-nfl-draft-why-washington-redskins-not-take-chase-young-no-2

 

The best approach for the Redskins may be to simply select Tagovailoa themselves. Washington is a year into the Haskins era, but Tagovailoa is a higher-regarded prospect than Haskins was in 2019, and Haskins is coming off a poor rookie season. Our projections support this move.

Why? Tagovailoa has a 23% chance to become a Pro Bowl-caliber quarterback and 66% chance to end up at least a starter. That's far ahead of the 4% and 22% chances for those two categories for Haskins, respectively, by the same model going into his own draft. (It's worth noting that our draft projections have been improved since the last draft, and our published numbers for Haskins were a good deal higher on him 12 months ago, though still short of Tagovailoa's.)

 

play

Though we don't update future projections after a player has hit the pro field, there's only one direction Haskins' outlook would have gone: down. He finished No. 41 in QBR out of the 42 players who threw 100 pass attempts last season.

 

Drafting a first-round QB two years in a row is hardly ideal, but the price is not impossible to swallow. Teams pay multiple firsts (via moving up) in order to acquire first-round quarterbacks, and in this instance, Washington would be able to flip Haskins for a lesser pick, Josh Rosen-style. Alternatively, they could hang on to Haskins and maximize their chances of having an elite QB by needing only one of the two first-rounders to develop into one.

The verdict: What the Redskins should do

Given the importance of acquiring a franchise quarterback, selecting Tagovailoa is probably the most advisable course of action. Opportunities to draft a QB prospect of his caliber without having to trade up to do so do not come around often.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

I can see Pittman, Hamler, Jefferson, Edwards, Claypool all available in the 3rd. Not interested at all in Hamler. Hes overated. Would rather have Sims play his role. I really like both Pittman and Antonio Gandy Golden though, and would not be upset with Pittman in the 3rd or Golden in the 4th. 

 

Absolutely agree. Pittman Jr. is what we're missing on offense imo and a great complement to McLaurin. Agreed on Hamler and what others have said about Hill, way less interested in them. Pittman Jr. should be a mid 2nd at worst imo and if he falls further than that it's purely bc teams are blinded by the role they think they want one of these vastly different WR prospects to fill. Like Fuller going before Michael Thomas because he's a field stretcher, that sort of choice. And anyone who could get Pittman that late would be getting a steal, I doubt we're that lucky. 

[Fresh8686]

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

15 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

 

I know a lot of us are really happy with the McLaurin - Harmon - Sims trio. But I feel like we could double-dip at WR in this draft. And if we can add 1-2 picks in the mid-rounds I would absolutely try for it in the R3-5 range. Just way too much talent. Even if you are concerned about Haskins long-term, taking advantage of a draft that is deep at OT and WR would do wonders. I would love to go Edwards-Johnson in the 3rd and 4th. Some might think Edwards at 66 is reaching, but if he was able to perform at the combine we'd be talking about him as a Top 6-7 WR. He's starting to climb back into that conversation too.

 

Chase in the 1st

Edwards in the 3rd

Niang in the 3rd (Trent trade)

Tyler Johnson in the 4th

Any TE that falls in the 4th

CB in the 5th

 

Also, you could do a "poor-man's" version of this by going for a Edwards + Cephus/Gibson/Gandy-Golden/etc. whoever falls to Round 5 ... and certainly with anyone that falls to Round 7, which surely someone will. Harmon was slated as a guy for Rounds 3-4 last year and fell to Round 6.

[Going Commando]

I like KJ Hill.  But I like Tyler Johnson, Devin Duvernay, and Isaiah Hodgins more.  That's why I haven't been drafting Hill in my mocks.  But if we end up with him on draft day, I'll be fine.  He fits what we do here.  But I'd rather take Harrison Bryant in the fourth and get one of the Duvernay/Hodgins/Johnson group in the fifth.

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

More Tua fodder, this time from the ESPN analytics guys

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29001180/2020-nfl-draft-why-washington-redskins-not-take-chase-young-no-2

 

The best approach for the Redskins may be to simply select Tagovailoa themselves. Washington is a year into the Haskins era, but Tagovailoa is a higher-regarded prospect than Haskins was in 2019, and Haskins is coming off a poor rookie season. Our projections support this move.

Why? Tagovailoa has a 23% chance to become a Pro Bowl-caliber quarterback and 66% chance to end up at least a starter. That's far ahead of the 4% and 22% chances for those two categories for Haskins, respectively, by the same model going into his own draft. (It's worth noting that our draft projections have been improved since the last draft, and our published numbers for Haskins were a good deal higher on him 12 months ago, though still short of Tagovailoa's.)

 

play

Though we don't update future projections after a player has hit the pro field, there's only one direction Haskins' outlook would have gone: down. He finished No. 41 in QBR out of the 42 players who threw 100 pass attempts last season.

 

Drafting a first-round QB two years in a row is hardly ideal, but the price is not impossible to swallow. Teams pay multiple firsts (via moving up) in order to acquire first-round quarterbacks, and in this instance, Washington would be able to flip Haskins for a lesser pick, Josh Rosen-style. Alternatively, they could hang on to Haskins and maximize their chances of having an elite QB by needing only one of the two first-rounders to develop into one.

The verdict: What the Redskins should do

Given the importance of acquiring a franchise quarterback, selecting Tagovailoa is probably the most advisable course of action. Opportunities to draft a QB prospect of his caliber without having to trade up to do so do not come around often.

I don’t think a franchise qb matters, at all, but an improvement in your rookie wage qb is tough to pass on. 

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I like KJ Hill.  But I like Tyler Johnson, Devin Duvernay, and Isaiah Hodgins more.  That's why I haven't been drafting Hill in my mocks.  But if we end up with him on draft day, I'll be fine.  He fits what we do here.  But I'd rather take Harrison Bryant in the fourth and get one of the Duvernay/Hodgins/Johnson group in the fifth.

After Young, Tyler Johnson may be the guy the ES is most firmly behind. Your dude Hodgins is pretty slick, I’d definitely take he or Duvernay over Hill. 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Live in person or do you mean the Senior Bowl practices on TV?  I got plenty of WRs I'd take over Hill but I don't hate Hill.  My biggest issue with the pick is we arguably need a Z.  I don't see Hill as a natural Z.    He has great hands.   He's not a big YAC guy, not a speed guy, not a power guy.  He seems to be about quick in and out routes in the flat, digs. shallow crossers.  Sort of like Jamison Crowder, better hands than him but less YAC.

 

If we are going with 4th round type WRs if they fall, I'd rather go with a more natural Z than doubling up on the slot.  Tyler Johnson, Collin Johnson, Gandy-Golden.  Hightower is a bit undersized but played some Z and can stretch the field.   

 

Some are saying Harmon might be a bit too slow but he ran the same 40 time as Hill.  And Harmon to me is more of a threat to stretch the field.  

 

I wouldn't hate it if they draft Hill in the 4th but he's not one I'd get excited about either.  Hill to me is the TE version of Colby Parkinson.  I think both guys are OK, and I'd get it.  But in my mind (and naturally I could be wrong) they can do better.

 

And I was one of the rare McLaurin and Harmon people last year before the draft.   And for me I don't see a lot of parallels between McLaurin and Hill.  And I don't see Hill as an improvement at Z or slot over whom we got now.

Just watching Haskins I loved what I saw from Hill. He navigates the middle of the field so naturally, he was really impressive in 2018. 
 

Harmon had some testing numbers that were better than Hopkins’ & he’s an inch taller with a similar 40. At 6ft 2 & above, I don’t think the 40 is as significant, I believe someone in this thread shared something with regard to that last year. 

[Fresh8686]

 

 

 

 

[xxprodigyxx]

Thoughts on Anthony Gandy-Golden? The last couple weeks I've been hearing his name. Looked at some of his footage - looked good to my untrained eye.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I think Harmon is ultimately the weak link of the WR group.  He can be upgraded, especially in this WR draft class (Pittman or Mims please).  Having Harmon as a starter is acceptable if Sims continues his end of season breakout (seriously, look it up, 2nd most productive rookie WR over the last 3rd of the NFL season), and we have a serious upgrade at TE.  If we get Trautman, I'll be more content on Harmon.

 

Harmon uses his size (not freakish size unfortunately) well, he's got great hands, boxes out, extends at the catch point when necessary, and is physical.  But he doesn't have the foot speed or wiggle to win against man coverage.  So a lot of his production would have to come against either a) zone or b) thrown open by the QB or c) schemed open.  But 'C' probably won't happen as we'd be more likely to scheme open someone who can do something with the ball in their hands like McLaurin, Sims, or an athletic TE like Trautman.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

Just watching Haskins I loved what I saw from Hill. He navigates the middle of the field so naturally, he was really impressive in 2018. 
 

Harmon had some testing numbers that were better than Hopkins’ & he’s an inch taller with a similar 40. At 6ft 2 & above, I don’t think the 40 is as significant, I believe someone in this thread shared something with regard to that last year. 

 

The 40 isn't the be all and end especially if you got some size.   Hill though is relatively a small dude (under 200 pounds, wingspan under 30", hand size 9") and isn't fast.  Hill is a wiz at getting open underneath with quick in and out routes.  And he has great hands.  I'd like him a lot more if he was a big time threat with the ball in his hands but that's not his thing.  4.3 YAC was one of the lowest numbers among draft eligible receivers. 

 

He reminds me of Jamison Crowder in some ways and in some ways he doesn't. And I liked Crowder in the slot but don't see him as a Z.   If I am going for a smallish guy, I'd prefer a YAC guy with speed like a Duvernay who can take it to the house.  But like I said I wouldn't hate it if its Hill.  I just don't see him as a natural Z and supposedly they are looking for a Z. 

 

I'd like him better if he fell to the 5th.  I suspect we can get a better player than him in the 4th. 

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

 

 

 

That's my take too.  Though I'd say 2nd or 5th round.   I have to rewatch him.  It's been a long time.  From what I recall, I love watching him fly in the open field -- he has some serious speed.  Too bad he didn't run because it wouldn't shock me if he would time in the 4.3's.    He's a YAC weapon in open field.   But he's a small dude and sometimes plays small.  I recall defenders throwing him to the ground, he goes down hard when you tackle him.   His hands were inconsistent.   He struck me somewhat of a gadget type player who would thrive in a place like KC where they'd likely use him for end arounds, sweeps, etc.

 

He can separate but at his size it would have to be from the slot.  

 

I recall not loving him as much as the typical mock drafter when I watched him the first time but he's on my list to watch again. 

 

And for me I like Sims and we got Quinn to back him up, I don't see the need for another slot guy.  I can see them needing a dude who can play Z and sub at X. 

 

 

[Skin'emAlive]

Imo, Sims brings more to the table than than hamler. Ask any psu fan, they will tell you of hamlers fools gold. Sims in the other hand... Some of the option routes he ran at the end of last season were beautiful. I never would have thought he could run those. He’s a keeper. Quinn has no role here. He’s not fast enough to get separation, not physical enough to break press coverage, not fast enough to provide YAC, and has no burst to chase post outs, a key bailout throw Dwayne looks for when on the move. It was a good story, but he’s the weakest link left on the wr depth chart. 
 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

Haskins would hate this draft 😂

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, volsmet said:

After Young, Tyler Johnson may be the guy the ES is most firmly behind. Your dude Hodgins is pretty slick, I’d definitely take he or Duvernay over Hill.  

 

Hodgins is faster and more agile than draftniks realize.  I think people are really low on him because they believe he's slow, and his 4.61 40 isn't pretty.  But his change of direction and short area quickness are plus traits, especially for a 6'4 guy.  He's a fluid stepper that is super slick like you say.  You can't read his intention into the break and his double move routes against off coverage were touchdown scorers.  Combine that with the absolutely spectacular hands and you've got the makings of a quality possession receiver who should be able to readily line up inside and outside.  He's got a case for having the best hands in a WR class that is unbelievably good.

 

I've been pushing Tyler Johnson enthusiastically and relentlessly.  I love his game.  He is the exact kind of player that gets undervalued because of mediocre physical traits but he is a gifted football player whose brilliance doesn't show up in measurables other than monster on field production.  He is the most aggressive WR in the class IMO.  Even more so than Justin Jefferson and CeeDee Lamb.  Just plays the game with a huge pair of nuts and he knows how to move around the field to constantly find space and he knows how to impose his will on the coverage.  He's got so much nuance to his movement, but you really have to be watching closely to catch it.  Variable speeds.  Unpredictable step patterns.  Economy of motion.  Knowing when to lean on you when you've got your hips turned wrong or you've taken a bad step.  What I compare it to is a classic herky-jerky ball-handler in basketball who is really good at creating space and drawing contact without having top notch speed.

 

I like this route right here from that wild bowl game:

 

 

He's got Igbinoghene on him in man with Dinson in a bracket in underneath coverage.  They read him running a drag through the mesh point and he sells that with the early lateral trajectory of the route.  Johnson knows it's a rollout and he's got time so he makes a really hard upfield cut before cutting back laterally and it completely fools Dinson and leaves him covering grass.  Two hard steps at a key point in the route create all of the space he needs against a double from good DBs.  He took Dinson to school that game.  It was brutal.  He had no fear of going through the middle on him.

 

EDIT: Just noticed how he used to the ref on that route too.  LOL.  That's why Igbinoghene was leaning back thinking the route was going deeper.  He broke the stem off and turns his head right as he's running past the ref and Igbinoghene is still processing all that traffic and route noise.  That's what got him the step he needs on a guy who is quite a bit faster than him.

 

I think he's also an underrated blocker, which is important for somebody who is going to play in the slot as much as he will at the next level.  He doesn't drive guys into the ground, but he understands positioning and timing and he's tough.

 

I think he's one of the best competitors in the class and he has NFL-level aggression paired with NFL-level skill.  He's ready to make the jump and I think he could make an impact year one even with a ruined rookie offseason.  I think he's a mixture of AJ Brown and Adam Thielen, and I think he should be getting mocked in the second round, not the fifth.  After Chase Young, he's the guy I want us to get the most.  I think there is a strong chance he's there at one of our fourth rounders, but I think we could pick him at 66 and still get a full round of positive value from the pick.

[Going Commando]

Here's my crazy ass trade down class: