What is Wrong with Alex Smith?

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I get what you are staying but I do not think that's the complete picture. It feels like yo are saying Alex was OK, it was everyone else. Maybe that's not what you meant and maybe I am just reading it wrong.

 

Since the first game in AZ - I have not seen him just drop back and fire. He seems so tentative. Not sure if he doesn't trust his reads, the receivers? Both? And he has receivers. He needs to hit them. They are getting open which is all they can do until the ball comes to them. 

 

They need to put it on Tampa who is reeling worse than the Giants. Le'ts see how they come back. Tampa is very much like Atl - poor D and very explosive Off. 

 

Goskins - i 100% agree with what you are saying. I think you and me and some others have shown Alex more patience than other fans. I think our patience and willingness to wait was warranted (new team, oft injured weapons = no time to get in sync, etc)

 

I thought Alex was a QB that could make a read and get the ball out quick. As you wrote, his back foot hits, he sees his primary read ... but then doesnt pull the trigger. He has to wait to see if his receiver wins the route first and by then, in the NFL, its too late.

 

What Im saying is .... Alex was OK for the first few possessions. If we didnt have the drops and penalties, maybe we get into some kind of offensive rythme. But as soundly as we were beat in all phases all game long, I think Doct catches the first 2 etc we still lose.

 

With the O line in shambles .... I have little hope going forward at this point for the offense to be anything more than what we have seen.

 

Alex is still a 18-24 rank QB imo ... but Im starting to think Colt might be better served running this offense, noodle arm in all.

[Sandy Monk]

39 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Alex is still a 18-24 rank QB imo ... but Im starting to think Colt might be better served running this offense, noodle arm in all.

 

I think it would be a smart move, for two reasons. 1) it would be a fun experiment to see McCoy out there, and who knows? maybe he will let it loose and find some success.. and 2) it would at the very least put Alex on public, humiliating notice that he will need to find a fire to let loose if he comes back in, or he just straight gone. 

 

Stir it up. May as well. With the OL and WR corps in such a state, they may as well get wild with it. Not going anywhere, as is. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

2) it would at the very least put Alex on public, humiliating notice that he will need to find a fire to let loose if he comes back in, or he just straight gone. 

This would be much more humiliating for the FO than it is Alex.  I know it feels like we all hate Alex, and I do - as far as watching him play QB.  But I don’t hate him for how he ended up here and what the organization sold everyone he was. That’s not his fault.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

20 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

I think it would be a smart move, for two reasons. 1) it would be a fun experiment to see McCoy out there, and who knows? maybe he will let it loose and find some success.. and 2) it would at the very least put Alex on public, humiliating notice that he will need to find a fire to let loose if he comes back in, or he just straight gone. 

 

Stir it up. May as well. With the OL and WR corps in such a state, they may as well get wild with it. Not going anywhere, as is. 

 

Is that really what we are aiming for? Publicly humiliating a veteran who, by all accounts, is a locker room leader and classy guy? Is there anything wrong with doing this the right way and having a private/internal conversation with him? Tell him to do x, y, and z or expect to be benched. 

 

It's funny....the longer and longer our front office handles things the way they should, the more I see fans yearn for the 2000 Dan Snyder. 

[London Kev]

IMO Alex has accuracy problems when throwing mid-range to long passes, he's missing open receivers, he's indecisive in the pocket and has happy feet. Some people point to the fact that (most importantly?) he doesn't throw many interceptions. The general consensus seems to be that he won't lose many games for you. On the flip side, he won't win many games for you either. 

 

If you project this type of player to a running back, then you get a guy who only ever runs for 3 yards a carry, often misses the hole, never breaks a tackle, but also (most importantly?) never ever fumbles. This type of running back won't lose many games for you. On the flip side, he won't win many games for you either.

 

You wouldn't want this guy as your lead back, maybe a short yardage specialist. You definitely wouldn't pay him top dollar or give up a draft pick + player to trade for him. He's just a guy.

 

Alex Smith is just a guy. I'm sure that there are many (cheaper) alternatives out there that we could get the same production out of. Just tell them to only hand the ball off or throw short safe passes. Just don't lose the game for us.

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This would be much more humiliating for the FO than it is Alex.  I know it feels like we all hate Alex, and I do - as far as watching him play QB.  But I don’t hate him for how he ended up here and what the organization sold everyone he was. That’s not his fault.

 

Exactly.

 

I don't think anyone hates Alex. He's a good dude.

He's just a limited QB that is at this point, probably only a backup. His arm strength looks much worse than I remember seeing it, and he can't throw with any anticipation.

 

We're much more angry about a FO (@HardcoreZornI'm looking at you! ) that gives this guys a top 10 contract. That's not on Alex.

 

And then they went and sold him as a "upgrade".

[NoCalMike]

I still don't understand that if Jordan Reed is as good as we all think he is, how he isn't beating coverage and getting open down field.  Alex Smith didn't seem to have any nervous hesitation airing it out to Kelce.  He is throwing contested passes to Maurice Harris and letting him make plays.  

 

Maybe this offense is just drawn up different, or they feel Vernon Davis even at his age has the better raw foot speed to beat that kind of coverage.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Look. It's not really fair to evaluate a quarterback until his 17th or 18th season in the league.

 

The book is still open on Alex Smith.

I just don't get why this is hard. If you run the ball and play good defense like it's 1995, you'll win a lot of games with Alex Smith. If you ever need to score, like 35, because it's 2018, you're screwed.

[DJHJR86]

Again...there is nothing wrong with Alex Smith.  Look at these numbers in the first 8 games from the past 6 seasons:
 

179/259, 69.11%, 2181 yards, 16 TD, 0 INT, 115.4 Rtg, 9.66 AY/A (2017, outlier)

179/271, 66.05%,1816 yards, 8 TD, 3 INT, 90.3 Rtg, 6.79 AY/A (2016)

170/268, 63.43%, 1969 yards, 9 TD, 3 INT, 92.1 Rtg, 7.51 AY/A (2015)

165/246, 67.07%, 1692 yards, 11 TD, 4 INT, 94.8 Rtg, 7.04 AY/A (2014)

169/286, 59.09 %, 1795 yards, 9 TD. 4 INT, 82.1 Rtg, 6.28 AY/A (2013)

145/209, 69.38%, 1659 yards, 12 TD, 5 INT, 102.1 Rtg, 8.01 AY/A (2012)

 

Averaging:

168/257, 65.37%, 1852 yards, 11 TD, 3 INT, 96.1 Rtg, 7.55 AY/A

 

This year:

174/274, 63.5%, 1867 yards, 9 TD, 3 INT, 89.8 Rtg, 6.98 AY/A

 

This is who he is.  And it's why 2 teams have decided to move on from him to 2 young and unknown/unproven options.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

12 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Again...there is nothing wrong with Alex Smith.  Look at these numbers in the first 8 games from the past 6 seasons:
 

179/259, 69.11%, 2181 yards, 16 TD, 0 INT, 115.4 Rtg, 9.66 AY/A (2017, outlier)

179/271, 66.05%,1816 yards, 8 TD, 3 INT, 90.3 Rtg, 6.79 AY/A (2016)

170/268, 63.43%, 1969 yards, 9 TD, 3 INT, 92.1 Rtg, 7.51 AY/A (2015)

165/246, 67.07%, 1692 yards, 11 TD, 4 INT, 94.8 Rtg, 7.04 AY/A (2014)

169/286, 59.09 %, 1795 yards, 9 TD. 4 INT, 82.1 Rtg, 6.28 AY/A (2013)

145/209, 69.38%, 1659 yards, 12 TD, 5 INT, 102.1 Rtg, 8.01 AY/A (2012)

 

Averaging:

168/257, 65.37%, 1852 yards, 11 TD, 3 INT, 96.1 Rtg, 7.55 AY/A

 

This year:

174/274, 63.5%, 1867 yards, 9 TD, 3 INT, 89.8 Rtg, 6.98 AY/A

 

This is who he is.  And it's why 2 teams have decided to move on from him to 2 young and unknown/unproven options.  

 

I texted to someone during the game, do you think you could tell whether a team won or lost a game based on Smith's numbers throughout his career? It's always the same game from him no matter what.

 

I'm trying to think of a pitcher in baseball that was the equivalent. Bob Walk maybe? I feel like Walk pitched six innings and gave up three earned runs in every game of his career.

 

PS

 

I'm old.

[KDawg]

Alex Smith is exactly the quarterback we need with a good offensive line and a good running attack that can consistently own the line of scrimmage.

 

Kirk Cousins is the guy we could use with a bad offensive line and no running attack.

 

First 8 games of this season, aside from the stretch without Lauvao, Smith was a damn good fit even without the great numbers because he didn't lose games for the team... something Cousins was known for.

 

Now, though, with Scherff/Lauvao out, Williams out, and Moses and Nsheke banged up, Cousins would fit this team better because he just threw the ball down the field somewhere. Sometimes it was to the other time, but he was productive.

 

Colt McCoy may actually fit the offense better right now, to be honest.

[kingdaddy]

No disrespect to Alex or Colt but the Skins have to find a QB for the future. Look around the league at how set up many franchises are because they have the answer at QB. Brady, Brees, Ben, Rodgers, Watson, Newton, Luck, Goff, Wentz, Mahomes, Wilson, Rivers and others give long term stability to the QB position which the Skins have not had since I don't know when.....This fan base deserves a stud QB who we can build around for the next 12 years or so. It has to be addressed in the next draft....period. Everything else is just a band aid.

[Sandy Monk]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Alex Smith is exactly the quarterback we need with a good offensive line and a good running attack that can consistently own the line of scrimmage.

 

Kirk Cousins is the guy we could use with a bad offensive line and no running attack.

 

First 8 games of this season, aside from the stretch without Lauvao, Smith was a damn good fit even without the great numbers because he didn't lose games for the team... something Cousins was known for.

 

Now, though, with Scherff/Lauvao out, Williams out, and Moses and Nsheke banged up, Cousins would fit this team better because he just threw the ball down the field somewhere. Sometimes it was to the other time, but he was productive.

 

Colt McCoy may actually fit the offense better right now, to be honest.

 

Not quite so sure of the last sentence, but I think you nailed the rest of it well. 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

No disrespect to Alex or Colt but the Skins have to find a QB for the future. Look around the league at how set up many franchises are because they have the answer at QB. Brady, Brees, Ben, Rodgers, Watson, Newton, Luck, Goff, Wentz, Mahomes, Wilson, Rivers and others give long term stability to the QB position which the Skins have not had since I don't know when.....This fan base deserves a stud QB who we can build around for the next 12 years or so. It has to be addressed in the next draft....period. Everything else is just a band aid.

 

 

You know when. We all know when ..... not too long ago either ... terps b ball better be decent this year.

[Morneblade]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Alex Smith is exactly the quarterback we need with a good offensive line and a good running attack that can consistently own the line of scrimmage.

 

Kirk Cousins is the guy we could use with a bad offensive line and no running attack.

 

First 8 games of this season, aside from the stretch without Lauvao, Smith was a damn good fit even without the great numbers because he didn't lose games for the team... something Cousins was known for.

 

Now, though, with Scherff/Lauvao out, Williams out, and Moses and Nsheke banged up, Cousins would fit this team better because he just threw the ball down the field somewhere. Sometimes it was to the other time, but he was productive.

 

Colt McCoy may actually fit the offense better right now, to be honest.

 

No.

 

I'm really tired of the false narrative. It's complete bull****.

 

This is what it's all about.

 

Alex Smith is a QB than can only have any success if the rest of the team is good/great. If there are any other holes, the team is in trouble. He can't elevate a team. He can't make players better than they are. He is literally dependent on the rest of the team being able to excel in spite of him.

 

Kirk Cousins is the QB every team wants. He can elevate a terrible team to average. He can hand the ball off, just like Alex Smith. But even I can do that, so big ****ing deal. However, he makes better, more accurate throws than Alex Smith. If the running game disappears, and the D gives up 30+, he can bring a team back. He throws a lot more TD's. And a few more INT's, usually because he's on a team that can't run the ball and has no defense, and sometimes has no OL either. Sometimes he's the only guy out there than can actually do anything.

 

He is the type of QB every team wants. A few teams have them. Most don't. That's why Minny paid what they did. And when they came up at the beginning of the season and couldn't run the ball or play defense? Kirk kept them alive. Now, both the D and running game are picking up, and they are going to be VERY tough to beat.

 

I mean, how do you think Aaron Rodgers would do if he had a D and a running game?

 

Oh yeah, SB MVP.

 

Guys like Kirk are great for ANY team. He'd be GREAT for this team. Guys like Alex are not great for any team. They work if the rest of the team is really good, but they don't actually bring anything to the table to make it better. They are not actually good for any team.

 

We know now much better the Chiefs look without Alex.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

 

This is what it's all about.

 

Alex Smith is a QB than can only have any success if the rest of the team is good/great. If there are any other holes, the team is in trouble. He can't elevate a team. He can't make players better than they are. He is literally dependent on the rest of the team being able to excel in spite of him.

 

Kirk Cousins is the QB every teams wants. He can elevate a terrible team to average. He can hand the ball off, just like Alex Smith. But even I can do that, so big ****ing deal. However, he makes better, more accurate throws than Alex Smith. If the running game disappears, and the D gives up 30+, he can bring a team back. He throws a lot more TD's. And a few more INT's, usually because he's on a team that can't run the ball and has no defense, and sometimes has no OL either. Sometimes he's the only guy out there than can actually do anything.

 

He is the type of QB every team wants. A few teams have them. Most don't. That's why Minny paid what they did. And when they came up at the beginning of the season and couldn't run the ball or play defense? Kirk kept them alive. Now, both the D and running game are picking up, and they are going to be VERY tough to beat.

 

Preach it brother!

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Is that really what we are aiming for? Publicly humiliating a veteran who, by all accounts, is a locker room leader and classy guy? Is there anything wrong with doing this the right way and having a private/internal conversation with him? Tell him to do x, y, and z or expect to be benched. 

 

It's funny....the longer and longer our front office handles things the way they should, the more I see fans yearn for the 2000 Dan Snyder. 

 

We definitely shouldn't try to publicly humiliate him. Makes us look bad, makes those rare "good guys" who hit free agency and arnt all about the money more hesitant to sign here I would think. 

 

We will see what the Vikes do, I still dont have much faith in Cousins if I'm being honest. But its clear we screwed the pooch on this one and we should have given the dude what he was asking for. These two men are not comparable anymore and no longer should be compared lol

[KDawg]

54 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

No.

 

I'm really tired of the false narrative. It's complete bull****.

 

This is what it's all about.

 

Alex Smith is a QB than can only have any success if the rest of the team is good/great. If there are any other holes, the team is in trouble. He can't elevate a team. He can't make players better than they are. He is literally dependent on the rest of the team being able to excel in spite of him.

 

Kirk Cousins is the QB every team wants. He can elevate a terrible team to average. He can hand the ball off, just like Alex Smith. But even I can do that, so big ****ing deal. However, he makes better, more accurate throws than Alex Smith. If the running game disappears, and the D gives up 30+, he can bring a team back. He throws a lot more TD's. And a few more INT's, usually because he's on a team that can't run the ball and has no defense, and sometimes has no OL either. Sometimes he's the only guy out there than can actually do anything.

 

He is the type of QB every team wants. A few teams have them. Most don't. That's why Minny paid what they did. And when they came up at the beginning of the season and couldn't run the ball or play defense? Kirk kept them alive. Now, both the D and running game are picking up, and they are going to be VERY tough to beat.

 

I mean, how do you think Aaron Rodgers would do if he had a D and a running game?

 

Oh yeah, SB MVP.

 

Guys like Kirk are great for ANY team. He'd be GREAT for this team. Guys like Alex are not great for any team. They work if the rest of the team is really good, but they don't actually bring anything to the table to make it better. They are not actually good for any team.

 

We know now much better the Chiefs look without Alex.

 

It's not a false narrative because it disagrees with you.

 

I don't believe in Kirk like you do. That's okay. I think Kirk loses a lot of games, but at the same time can keep any game competitive. You don't feel the same. That's fine.

[RandyHolt]

Will the real Capt. Fantastic Checkdown, please stand up?

 

 

Or fumble....

 

Tweet format fail click here instead FTW

 

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Will the real Capt. Fantastic Checkdown, please stand up?

 

 

Or fumble....

 

Tweet format fail click here instead FTW

 

 

 

If you are looking for check downs.  The # of short throws won't give that to you.  That mostly tells you which team throws the ball more.  I presume the purpose here is to take a dig at Kirk but the dude has thrown almost 100 balls more than Alex.  I'd presume that would do the trick in terms of having more volume on everything.  

 

Typically you look at YPA or air yards.  And yeah on that Alex is ranked 28th in the league so the check down label certainly is on point.  We are about to face the #1 Qb in YPA, Fitzpatrick.  The dude is a gunslinger.  Should be interesting.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt

[Morneblade]

26 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It's not a false narrative because it disagrees with you.

 

I don't believe in Kirk like you do. That's okay. I think Kirk loses a lot of games, but at the same time can keep any game competitive. You don't feel the same. That's fine.

 

No, it's a false narrative because a top 10 QB is better than a >20 QB.

 

You think Kirk looses games. Why?  Because on a team with no offensive play makers, he throws some pick trying to win? On a team with no running game, he forces a ball or 2, because we know we can't run the ball. Because he goes for the 15 yard pass on 3rd and 9 because he know our defense wasn't going to stop anyone?

 

Please.

 

The team lost, and many times, Kirk was the only thing going right. Did he throw some picks? Yep. Did he fumble the ball a lot more than I would have liked, absolutely. Of course, he was getting demolished back there too, because we had 3 guys that were shoe salesmen starting on the OL.

 

That's not Kirks fault. It's not his fault he was getting pressured almost every snap. It's not his fault the running game was abysmal, and the D was terrible.

 

The lack of a running game had more to do with loosing then Kirk. The lack of a OL had more to do with loosing than Kirk. The lack of a defense that couldn't slow down anyone had more to do with the team loosing than Kirk.

 

Kirk moves on, and he's NOT loosing games. Even with a suspect OL that has both Gs out for the year. He's got one more pick than AS, under a lot more pressure. But over twice the TD's and nearly 1k more yards passing.

 

Alex on this team last year might win 3 games.

 

There is literally no comparing the 2. Alex can't hold Kirks jock.

[SkinsFTW]

If Alex Smith had thrown the ball 363 times instead of 274 times he'd still be the King. Kirk Cousins has thrown it 363 times. 

 

When you use just straight stats without % then you don't really see the real picture. It's like saying that the guy who ran the ball the most also has the most under 5 yard runs. I mean, really is that unexpected?

 

But never doubt. Alex is still the checkdown king. The difference is that Alex spends 2-3 seconds looking confused before dumping it off while KC just does it at the snap of the ball. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

No, it's a false narrative because a top 10 QB is better than a >20 QB.

 

You think Kirk looses games. Why?  Because on a team with no offensive play makers, he throws some pick trying to win? On a team with no running game, he forces a ball or 2, because we know we can't run the ball. Because he goes for the 15 yard pass on 3rd and 9 because he know our defense wasn't going to stop anyone?

 

Please.

 

 

And key fumbles. And key errors in key spots in games. It happened over and over. And despite Smith's flaws he hasn't done that part... yet... Doesn't mean he won't.

 

The team lost, and many times, Kirk was the only thing going right. Did he throw some picks? Yep. Did he fumble the ball a lot more than I would have liked, absolutely. Of course, he was getting demolished back there too, because we had 3 guys that were shoe salesmen starting on the OL.

 

That's not Kirks fault. It's not his fault he was getting pressured almost every snap. It's not his fault the running game was abysmal, and the D was terrible.

 

Agreed. I think you're looking into my statements a bit too much for some kind of hidden agenda. There is none. I assure you. I wasn't happy with Kirk for the money he wanted, but was happy if he would have taken a lesser rate. I am also not happy with Smith at the moment. I am not comparing them, versus saying what I believe their strengths and weaknesses are within this system.

 

There is literally no comparing the 2. Alex can't hold Kirks jock.

 

Good thing that I'm not comparing. Just looking into their strengths and weaknesses. Not sure what triggered this rant, though. I didn't say anything bad about Kirk Cousins. Just spoke about what I have observed to be his weaknesses and Alex Smith's weaknesses.

[HardcoreZorn]

7 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

No, it's a false narrative because a top 10 QB is better than a >20 QB.

 

You think Kirk looses games. Why?  Because on a team with no offensive play makers, he throws some pick trying to win? On a team with no running game, he forces a ball or 2, because we know we can't run the ball. Because he goes for the 15 yard pass on 3rd and 9 because he know our defense wasn't going to stop anyone?

 

Please.

 

The team lost, and many times, Kirk was the only thing going right. Did he throw some picks? Yep. Did he fumble the ball a lot more than I would have liked, absolutely. Of course, he was getting demolished back there too, because we had 3 guys that were shoe salesmen starting on the OL.

 

That's not Kirks fault. It's not his fault he was getting pressured almost every snap. It's not his fault the running game was abysmal, and the D was terrible.

 

The lack of a running game had more to do with loosing then Kirk. The lack of a OL had more to do with loosing than Kirk. The lack of a defense that couldn't slow down anyone had more to do with the team loosing than Kirk.

 

Kirk moves on, and he's NOT loosing games. Even with a suspect OL that has both Gs out for the year. He's got one more pick than AS, under a lot more pressure. But over twice the TD's and nearly 1k more yards passing.

 

Alex on this team last year might win 3 games.

 

There is literally no comparing the 2. Alex can't hold Kirks jock.

What's loosing?

 

If I'm Bruce Allen, you're Don Cousins. My goodness.

[NoCalMike]

I think the whole checkdown thing is missing the point.  Short passes are not necessarily an issue themselves.  It is what kind of short passes.  Are they slant routes, are they crossing patterns, are they designed to get someone in space so they can keep going after the catch? Are they screen passes? Are they pick plays?  All of those tend to be short passes but if you execute, they can go for a lot of yards.

Or, are they 4th option check downs, where a RB or TE is standing there flat footed and will pretty much get tackled immediately after the 2 yard catch?

 

"Short passes" is too vague of a statement to critique on it's own.

 

The issue with the passing game right now is that it seems like Smith is rarely passing the ball to the first or second option of where the play is designed to go, and instead ends up dumping it off as a bail out.  Is that Smith's fault?  Are receivers not getting open downfield?  I don't know.  Hard to know for sure without game film.  I do know that there were passes to Jordan Reed & Maurice Harris that were thrown in situations where they weren't wide open, but the receivers made a play.  Are those the kind of passes you want Smith to live or die by?  Sure, it might improve the overall stats, but it is also going to mean more turnovers and batted down passes and drive ending attempted plays. I have a hard time believing Smith (or any QB for that matter) is seeing wide open receivers and simply choosing not to throw to them. (Outside of your normal run of the mill amount of not seeing someone open, which happens in every single game for every team).  There most certainly is more nuance to it. 

 

Say what you will about Smith's blandness as a passer, but one thing is for sure, neither he or the offensive "weapons" on this team are suited to overcome turnovers.  This team is playing razor thin margin games.  A part of why they have won those games, is a big part due to lack of turnovers.  They don't have a D-Jax that can flip a game on it's side on a single play.  Richardson is not D-Jax, not to mention he hasn't even been healthy the entire season.  This WR core is severely missing the element of speed needed to challenge those deep safeties.  If you want Smith to just start going Grossman during games, they will start losing these close games.

 

Smith is having issues in this offense, no one is questioning that, but there is also an issue with the skill position players. They don't win their individual match ups and that is a problem over the course of the game.