What is Wrong with Alex Smith?

[DJHJR86]

You know what a big red flag is with regards to discussions about how good a QB is?  When people constantly lists the things they "don't do" as positives.  

-He doesn't turn the ball over.

-He doesn't take unnecessary risks.

-He doesn't lose you games.

 

All of the positives I've seen from even the staunchest Smith defenders are things he doesn't do.  Other than a few scrambles here and there, I don't see his legs as this big net positive.  So what exactly does he do well besides eat the clock while Peterson racks up yards?

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s exactly it though, the commentary is there.  I will say that for the most part it has ceased this week, which is interesting because I actually think he had his best performance of the season.  Primarily because there was one drive sprinkled in there where he was decisive, planting and firing, in addition to a nice scramble.  But my god, he just will not let the ball go and when he gets those feet happy, he gets nothing on the throw and it’s a wobbler. Too often.  My opinion of his play last weekend aside, the folks willing to say Alex has been good or better have been dwindling by the week.  But they do still exist and go on silly QB W/L record rants typically paired with a hyperbolic jab about Cousins turning it over.  It’s odd to me that you don’t see these posts.  They can be wildly dispersed in any number of threads.  Much less prevalent now that most everyone has thrown in the towel.  I’ve been living this QB drama here forever, I’m well aware of what the discussion has been about.   

 

I legitimately don't see that commentary. If anyone claimed he was actually playing well, instead of saying that he's doing some things well, I think they must be using some powerful drugs. My opinion, once again, is that he is doing some things well (not turning the ball over and... uhm... not turning the ball over... oh and that play where he broke 4 tackles and ran 20+ yards and that fade. But beyond that...). But anyone claiming he is actually playing well needs their head examined. 

 

So to be clear... he's not doing anything well enough to actually mention with his play aside from a few plays here and there. Which is pretty damning.

[Sandy Monk]

6 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

You know what a big red flag is with regards to discussions about how good a QB is?  When people constantly lists the things they "don't do" as positives.  

-He doesn't turn the ball over.

-He doesn't take unnecessary risks.

-He doesn't lose you games.

 

All of the positives I've seen from even the staunchest Smith defenders are things he doesn't do.  Other than a few scrambles here and there, I don't see his legs as this big net positive.  So what exactly does he do well besides eat the clock while Peterson racks up yards?

 

For me, the things he doesn't do is pretty important to a team that has a good D, good STs, a good RB.. and OL that can play ball control. 

 

What I'm trying to say is, Alex is a good fit for a good, balanced offense. The things he doesn't do much of is "rock the boat" (have back breaking picks or fumbles) when "the waters are calm" (team is good). You may think turnovers don't matter? but I watch games all the time that have a QB... who doesn't need to force something... force something. We saw it with Dak last night. Cowboys up 7-0 early.. and Dak throws a pick in the EZ on the next drive. That turnover... mattered. 

 

The problem most fans over the years have with Alex... is the very thing they label him as in the first place. They label him this. Then they get pissed because he is what they label him as. He's not a QB that will carry a bad or broken team. Washington is probably becoming a broken team... which is bad... and the record will likely suffer for it.

 

Which then means yet again... everyone will get mad at Alex for being exactly what he was already labeled as. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I am sticking to part of the problem though Alex has ironically is the over billing he had in the off season especially by the Redskins coaches-FO.  I said it on the Alex thread in the off season and I gather some thought that was sarcasm but I meant it then and i mean it now.

 

The idea that Alex can do "everything" and it opens the playbook to do "everything" He is just getting better later in his career.  He throws a really good deep ball.   The idea that his more aggressive style will give Josh Doctson more opportunities.  It won't take him long to learn the system at all.  On and on and on.   Hey we had it on the Alex thread all that over the top hype pushed by some. 

 

So Alex was set up in a way that he was beyond a conservative game manager who might not light the world on fire but he won't turn the ball over.  Even though that's what he was for most of his career but he was sold as the bigger, badder, more exciting version of that.

 

Maybe they believed the new narrative that they conjured up or it was over hype about how Jay's system is magic and turns water into wine -- witness Kirk and now watch Alex.  Nonetheless, that's how they sold it.  And I gathered they believed it considering all the reports about Jay and the FO being disappointed in Alex's play with Jay specifically having issues with Alex's conservative play.  

 

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2018/03/29/is-alex-smith-really-an-upgrade-over-kirk-cousins-for-redskins-at-qb/?utm_term=.a105d5bff692

The Washington Redskins basically swapped Kirk Cousins for Alex Smith by sending Kendall Fuller and a third-round pick to Kansas City and letting Cousins walk in free agency. At 33 years old, Smith is four years older than Cousins, and some have called him an older, slightly cheaper version of the Vikings’ new starting quarterback.

Washington doesn’t see it that way, and Coach Jay Gruden said it plainly during an interview session with multiple reporters at the owners annual meeting.

“Yeah, without a doubt,” Gruden said when asked if Washington is better off. “I don’t want to compare two players, but we’re always trying to be better at every position. We got better. Alex’s experience is well-noted, and his record the last five years is what it is. You could argue that all day, but we feel very good.”

[Morneblade]

This was the bull**** we were sold. A lot of people bought into it. I'd seen enough of Alex to know better, but a lot of people didn't.

 

Fact is, Alex is playing like Alex right now. Outside of his completion % he's having a good year. and even that is only slightly lower than his last 5 years.

 

The other thing that I'm a little surprised about is that his arm strength looks worse than I remember seeing it. That's concerning.

I don't remember his deep balls looking so weak. He's never but any loft on them, allowing guys to run under them and be able to make adjustments, but this year they look like something I would throw. Where I used to see some zip on them, now they just limp and flutter in the air. That's an issue.

 

It's one thing to not throw a ball because you're conservative. It's another because you really can't get it there.

 

I hope he's not going to be Mark Brunell and just fall apart physically before our eyes. We are stuck with him for the next 2.5 years, like it or not.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

The other thing that I'm a little surprised about is that his arm strength looks worse than I remember seeing it. That's concerning.

I don't remember his deep balls looking so weak. He's never but any loft on them, allowing guys to run under them and be able to make adjustments, but this year they look like something I would throw. Where I used to see some zip on them, now they just limp and flutter in the air. That's an issue.

 

I don’t have the stomach to go and break down his tape, but from what I’m seeing in games coupled with analysis from others, it appears to be his footwork.  In order to get the zip he’s got to plant and drive the ball, and he’s not doing it.  It’s visible even on the short throws to the sideline.  Wouldn’t be surprised to start seeing corners cheat and take one of these back to the house.

[Morneblade]

3 hours ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

For me, the things he doesn't do is pretty important to a team that has a good D, good STs, a good RB.. and OL that can play ball control. 

 

Well, they are important to all teams, right?

 

3 hours ago, Sandy Monk said:

What I'm trying to say is, Alex is a good fit for a good, balanced offense. The things he doesn't do much of is "rock the boat" (have back breaking picks or fumbles) when "the waters are calm" (team is good). You may think turnovers don't matter? but I watch games all the time that have a QB... who doesn't need to force something... force something. We saw it with Dak last night. Cowboys up 7-0 early.. and Dak throws a pick in the EZ on the next drive. That turnover... mattered. 

 

Alex is a "OK" fit for that kind of team. But if you have a good D, good, ST, and a good RB, and a guy like Alex, you can also say "you're just a good QB away from being a serious SB contender". What is more accurate is that that kind of team is a good fit for Alex. Most QB's would love to be in a situation where they can just hand the ball off, throw a few passes here and they, but lean on the RB and D to consistently win games. To be honest, with a starting QB, you want a guy that can win a game for you. For a guy that won't loose a game? Honestly, that's what you want out of a backup QB. a guy that can come in and keep things afloat while your starter gets well, and not screw everything up.

 

3 hours ago, Sandy Monk said:

The problem most fans over the years have with Alex... is the very thing they label him as in the first place. They label him this. Then they get pissed because he is what they label him as. He's not a QB that will carry a bad or broken team. Washington is probably becoming a broken team... which is bad... and the record will likely suffer for it.

 

Which then means yet again... everyone will get mad at Alex for being exactly what he was already labeled as. 

 

 

 

Likely. What will drive fans to be livid is that while down 24 points, there will be no sense of urgency. No hurry up. No deep passes. No real effort made to even try to get back in the game. See Atlanta

 

And honestly, they should be mad about that. Just run the ball, if your not even going to try and take some shots down field, and run the clock out and take the loss like a ****. You've given up and accepted the outcome. Or go over to the other side and tell the coach "I know there is like 10 minutes left in the game, but we're down by 2 scores. We're done, lets get out with no further injuries and we'll take the L." That's how it looks. And, as a fan, I'd be mad too.

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I don’t have the stomach to go and break down his tape, but from what I’m seeing in games coupled with analysis from others, it appears to be his footwork.  In order to get the zip he’s got to plant and drive the ball, and he’s not doing it.  It’s visible even on the short throws to the sideline.  Wouldn’t be surprised to start seeing corners cheat and take one of these back to the house.

 

Yeah, he's always had to do that. But even on 20ish yard throws, the ball just hangs there. I've always though Alex had an "average" NFL arm. He can make all the throws, but might not have a ton of zip on the deep ones, he needs to drive from his legs, like Brunell did. What I'm seeing now is a lack of zip on everything, and a lot of balls sailing, like he's trying to put more zip on the ball to compensate, and it's throwing his release point off.

 

He's never been a guy that can just flick it 60 yards he's got to load up for that, but it almost as if he can't flick it 15 yards. The ball just hangs in the air.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Alex Smith is about to ball the **** out.

 

He knows he must put this team of the broken and downtrodden, put them on his shoulders and carry them over Hamburger Hill.

 

If games were played under water, he would be the Tom Brady of underwater professional football. The guy is a ****ing fish, breathing for him is optional. Dolphins ask him for advice.

 

[purbeast]

Christ, you guys are STILL talking about Cousins...

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Christ, you guys are STILL talking about Cousins...

 

No, we're talking about Smith. Keep up.

[purbeast]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

No, we're talking about Smith. Keep up.

I will admit, I was on page 22 when I typed that.  I thought I had clicked on the wrong thread.

 

But then I clicked on the last page of the other Smith thread about when can we get out of his contract, and the first post on that page is talking about Cousins.

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, purbeast said:

I will admit, I was on page 22 when I typed that.  I thought I had clicked on the wrong thread.

 

But then I clicked on the last page of the other Smith thread about when can we get out of his contract, and the first post on that page is talking about Cousins.

 

It's cool.

 

Fact of the matter is that as long as Smith is here, and maybe Bruce Allen, Kirk is going to be talked about. Especially if he is playing well. Those guys are going to be linked by what I consider a horrible FO job with Kirk, and then the over-reaction signing Alex to a very unfriendly team deal. Allowing a QB of his caliber to hit FA was historically unprecedented. So, as long as Alex and Bruce are Redskins, and Kirk is playing well in Minny, unless the Mods ban it, it's going to come up.

 

Like it or not.

 

Best thing would be to just skip over the areas if you don't want to see it, or even block posters that tend to bring it up. I do bring up Kirk, so you might want to block me for starters.

 

But chastising people for it isn't going to stop it.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The Cousins talk isn’t going away anytime soon, for folks on either side of the debate.  Although I like the idea mentioned about forbidding it here, as it does cheapen the discussion.  Gotta be fair game in the Bruce thread though.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

5 hours ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

For me, the things he doesn't do is pretty important to a team that has a good D, good STs, a good RB.. and OL that can play ball control. 

 

 

 

 

 

So if it's 1995.

 

Look, the Skins may be trying to win with this "ball control/good defense" thing.

 

But look at the ****ing league, man....

 

I mean, the Falcons stink, but they can put up 35 on any team at any time. All the top teams are teams built to score 40 points a game. The Chiefs, Patriots, Saints, Rams, and Panthers. The Eagles were that team last year and will probably eventually get their act together. The Steelers are built that way, especially if they get a fresh Bell in week 11 or something.. Honestly, any team with a hope of being truly competitive has to have to have that explosive offense inside them. If you're entire goal in 2018 is to control clock with Adrian Peterson, you are in the wrong sport.

 

That's why the Vikings backed up the Brinks Truck to Kirk's house. Because they were built this way last year and lost 38-7 in the NFC title game.

 

 

2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

This was the bull**** we were sold. A lot of people bought into it. I'd seen enough of Alex to know better, but a lot of people didn't.

 

Fact is, Alex is playing like Alex right now. Outside of his completion % he's having a good year. and even that is only slightly lower than his last 5 years.

 

The other thing that I'm a little surprised about is that his arm strength looks worse than I remember seeing it. That's concerning.

I don't remember his deep balls looking so weak. He's never but any loft on them, allowing guys to run under them and be able to make adjustments, but this year they look like something I would throw. Where I used to see some zip on them, now they just limp and flutter in the air. That's an issue.

 

It's one thing to not throw a ball because you're conservative. It's another because you really can't get it there.

 

I hope he's not going to be Mark Brunell and just fall apart physically before our eyes. We are stuck with him for the next 2.5 years, like it or not.

 

This guy gets it.

 

Everyone seems concerned that Alex Smith is playing like Alex Smith. That's just weird.

[London Kev]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The idea that Alex can do "everything" and it opens the playbook to do "everything" He is just getting better later in his career.  He throws a really good deep ball.   The idea that his more aggressive style will give Josh Doctson more opportunities.  It won't take him long to learn the system at all.  On and on and on.   Hey we had it on the Alex thread all that over the top hype pushed by some. 

 

This is also what I remember being said just after the trade. The part about opening up the playbook really stood out the most for me because I wondered exactly what parts of the playbook weren't open for Cousins?

 

Looking back at Jay's comments seems almost laughable now and I do believe that he was being sincere at the time. It appears that the 2017 Alex was being considered the norm rather than an outlier. I can't fault them too much for thinking that way, but maybe some caution should have been shown with regards to the length of his contract (obviously it's easier to say this with hindsight). 

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

 

 

This guy gets it.

 

Everyone seems concerned that Alex Smith is playing like Alex Smith. That's just weird.

 

Is he, though? I mean, I understand the way he distributed the ball has always been this way. But some of his passes have a lot more wobble than I'm used to seeing them when watching him with the Chiefs. Usually the passes came in on spirals. He's got ducks firing out of his hand way more often than I would have expected.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

Mental Masturbation question of the week

 

Cousins, Rich Gannon, Trent Green. You can have one of the 3 back in their prime, Who do you take ? GO!

 

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Mental Masturbation question of the week

 

Cousins, Rich Gannon, Trent Green. You can have one of the 3 back in their prime, Who do you take ? GO!

 

edit

 

 

Rich Gannon 

[Sandy Monk]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Is he, though?

 

No, and yes. He's playing like those who know him expect while under very lackluster conditions. He is not playing to his capabilities by a long shot while under less than good conditions. He should be better on his own, but he and we expected a much better support cast.

 

While I do suspect Jay and Co. expected him to be able to shoulder more? that was a pure guestimation under duress.  Had they the support cast arrogantly expected though? things would have been very very good. 

 

imho

[DJHJR86]

Remember that great playoff game in 2011 that the 49ers had against the Saints?  Or when the Chiefs totally destroyed the Texans back in 2016 30-0?  Those were Smith's 2 playoff wins over a 14 year career.  What no one ever seems to talk about is his performance in the games that followed these victories.

 

In the NFC Championship game in 2011-2012, Smith completed one pass to a wide receiver, converted one third down out of 13 attempts and finished with a stat line of: 12/26, 196 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs.

 

In the divisional round in 2016 against the Patriots, the Chiefs led them in time of possession (37:51 to 22:09), had a higher percentage of third down conversions (60% to 50%), had more rushing yards (135 to 33), and Smith actually distributed the ball well to his receivers in that game and had a final stat line of: 29/50, 246 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs.

 

Maybe it's just me, but why were people (especially the "all he does is win" crowd) so excited when we got him?  These 2 games perfectly illustrate what he brings a team in the post season (and has also done this year during the regular season): when he has a "good" game against a high powered offense (like the Patriots), he cannot do enough to win in a shoot out.  And when he has his usual performance against teams in winnable games (Giants in NFC Championship), he cannot do enough to win.  He doesn't have this magical switch a la Flacco that gets turned up in the post season.  He's the same guy.  

[Sandy Monk]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

In the NFC Championship game in 2011-2012, Smith completed one pass to a wide receiver, converted one third down out of 13 attempts and finished with a stat line of: 12/26, 196 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs.

 

 

Name the WRs he had and the WRs Eli had.

 

Understand that even Crabtree was not the Crabtree he later developed into. He even admitted after the game that he needed to improve, after the drops and poor route releases. (he was not an asset, lol)  Vernon Davis got all up on the young Crabtree about his effort and suckage level. Brett Swain? and other no-name WRs that I don't even remember. LOL .. Alex still threw 2 TDs and they had the game won, if not for the PR fumbles and more. 

 

You're trying too hard when you don't even have to, DJH. The team alone likely knocks Smith off the roster, so this is just sad wasted effort. 

[DJHJR86]

4 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

Name the WRs he had and the WRs Eli had.

 

Understand that even Crabtree was not the Crabtree he later developed into. He even admitted after the game that he needed to improve, after the drops and poor route releases. (he was not an asset, lol)  Vernon Davis got all up on the young Crabtree about his effort and suckage level. Brett Swain? and other no-name WRs that I don't even remember. LOL .. Alex still threw 2 TDs and they had the game won, if not for the PR fumbles and more. 

 

You're trying too hard when you don't even have to, DJH. The team alone likely knocks Smith off the roster, so this is just sad wasted effort. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Smith had the same set of receivers he had the week prior when he put up 30+ points against the Saints.

 

I have no idea what you mean about the "team alone likely knocks Smith off the roster", but I do know that that was the moment when Harbaugh and the 49ers brass knew that Smith was never going to take that team to a Super Bowl.  Same with the Chiefs last year.  

[Sandy Monk]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Smith had the same set of receivers he had the week prior when he put up 30+ points against the Saints.

 

I have no idea what you mean about the "team alone likely knocks Smith off the roster",

 

but I do know that that was the moment when Harbaugh and the 49ers brass knew that Smith was never going to take that team to a Super Bowl.  Same with the Chiefs last year.  

 

Long time ago.. don't even remember the game before that one. Not that important, and even less important to current events.

 

The lacking offensive roster of the team.. likely knocks Smith off the roster... sooner or later. So rejoice. Eventually, and maybe soon?

 

Smith eventually showed that he had limits that the cap space butted heads with. Okay. If that bit of historical concession brings peace to you? then you are welcome. 2019 Draft incoming!

[Stadium-Armory]

I heard from a friend who was at the game that on multiple occasions, Alex didn't see receivers running wide open down the field. Of course that happens to all QBs but he said it was overtly obvious and repetitive. Maybe it has to do with comfort in the offense of maybe he just doesn't see the field as well as other QBs. Either way, I think the struggling passing game isn't about the WRs or the scheme.