Common Kirk....I just don't know....

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, TheCoach22 said:

Other than fear of the unknown... and your self-confessed BFS... does anything in Kirk/Jay suggest this is going to get figured out and that the team will be competitive every year Cousins is under a 4-5 year contract? I see four or five more Even-Steven type seasons where we could make the playoffs, but unless everything breaks right, we will fall short of championship caliber. Is it better than what we've had? Sure. Is it worth taking 17 Sundays away from my wife and kids? Hell no.

 

I think you said it best with its better than what we've had.  Having a QB is everything in this league and it takes years to find out if you actually have one.  I just have no interest in starting over.  I also don't trust that our FO is competent enough to build a legit team that is only a QB away.  So in essence, I don't really trust anything with the Redskins at this particular time.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, purbeast said:

Why don't you go get one from the QB store since you seem to think it's so easy to get one.

 

Kirk had an awful game no doubt.

 

It's a lot more amusing to read all of the "sky is falling our season is doomed 0-16 with KC" posts than I thought it would be.  The radio is just as comical too.

Wait, they have those?

 

I think the general consensus on the board was that we'd be between a 5 and 8 win team. That's exactly what we looked like yesterday. It's a tough pill to swallow and there's going to be a lot of pain with that. 

[skinsmania123]

10 minutes ago, TheCoach22 said:

Sure... but accountability matters. Kirk didn't lose me with how he played in the finale last year... he lost me with his attitude about it. I wanted either tears, or a tantrum... some emotion, but the dude is a robot. Instead he stayed on script and went as far as to say it was up to the team as to whether he would be back, as if he had nothing to say or do about it. Then, he opens the season right where he left off, and his response is that he'd "like to have some throws back." He seems checked out on this fan base and franchise. Not what you want in a QB.

He is a "robot" but that is what people with obsessive compulsive tendencies are. They are robotic and when they lose structure/control they do not improvise they digress.  The truth is the O line did not offer decent pass protection and he never quite got into a consistent rhythm and he never settled down.  I only saw a glimpse of rhythm in the middle part of the game when we ran more.  But in typical Redskin's fashion they abandoned something that worked.

 

  I have never been a Cousin's supporter.  He does not have the "it" factor because he does not improvise, seems like a nervous guy on the big stage/big moments.   Learning to run for your life does not count but i am glad he took off a few times in the game yesterday.  The O line sucked yesterday and were beat bad, which really threw Cousin's off - very similar to the preseason 

Quote

For me, Cousins is Alex Smith with a tinge more upside, but a tinge more likely to make a mistake... Smith makes roughly 15 mill a season, price of inflation I'd say Cousins is worth 20 mill at most. He's looking for closer to 30 mill. If he can find a sucker, he'll ultimately rob NFL franchises to the tune of upside of $150 mill (44 mill from us and over 100 mill from the next team). That's Sam Bradford level robbery in my opinion. I'm just saying I would be more willing to support Dan giving him more of his money if they guy would stand-up and own it more often.

I agree with the comparison.  Alex Smith's RZ percentage was 7th worst in the league last year BUT they did something about it in the draft by getting a very good RB in Kareem Hunt.  You need the weapons.  With the exception of Thompson our RB's are not good enough.   I think I would roll with Perine this week and see how he does in live action.

 

 Cousin's has never demonstrated the ability to settle down and consistently seize the big moments.  Getting the ball in the EZ when you visit the RZ IS the big moment IMO in every game and he is not good at it.  I don't give a **** about yardage.  Get the ball in the damn EZ.  

 

[clskinsfan]

There is a major echo up in this joint

[Fat Stupid Loser]

11 hours ago, Garcon More Wine said:

 

this is so painful to think about.  weve had winning football for two years straight and its been nice.  going back to john beck level football is too much for me to think about lol.

 

although if we do put together some clunker year of like 6-10, i do agree cousins will not be resigned, and we'll probably clean house again.  and god knows what direction we go in from there.

and i dont trust doug williams or bruce allen to identify the franchise savior in the draft, sorry.

But the next Beck will be better because we won't have to pay him anything. That's what matters. Then we can get that expensive NT. Then we'll be competitive.

[Garcon More Wine]

3 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

But the next Beck will be better because we won't have to pay him anything. That's what matters. Then we can get that expensive NT. Then we'll be competitive.

 

if theres one thing ive learned about the skins over the past 17 years its money is irrelevant.  we always find a way to make things happen.

 

and you should know by now, this team doesnt care one lick about the NT position and they probably never will.  ive been waiting for a 335 lb'er since shanahan installed the 3-4 and we just never have one.  and NT dont cost anything lol.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

3 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

 

if theres one thing ive learned about the skins over the past 17 years its money is irrelevant.  we always find a way to make things happen.

 

and you should know by now, this team doesnt care one lick about the NT position and they probably never will.  ive been waiting for a 335 lb'er since shanahan installed the 3-4 and we just never have one.  and NT dont cost anything lol.

Oh, I know. That was my  sarcastic point. 

[NoCalMike]

Part of me thinks the franchise has been so QB deficient for the last 20 years that the fanbase is clinging to above-average out of the fear of going back to mediocre.  Anytime you get rid of what you currently have there will be a risk, and unknown. That is just part of sports. 

 

Ideally, I'd like to see what Cousins could do with a roster built similarly to Dallas's.   A run first offense behind a monster of an O-line, that features mostly high percentage shorter throws, and the occasional long pass when the WR appears to be wide open. 

 

The issue is that Cousins is 29, (I believe 30 before the season is over?) the roster is no where near being built like a contender. In a best-case scenario, this roster could be built to contend by the time Cousins is what, 32, 33ish?  So the window for him will be rapidly closing. 

[Alexa]

3 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

But the next Beck will be better because we won't have to pay him anything. That's what matters. Then we can get that expensive NT. Then we'll be competitive.

Why are so many Redskins fans so hung up on Kirk's contract? He earned the money by his play the last couple of years. That's the price for above average QB play. I knew as soon as he had a bad game it's..  "he's not worth the money" ...  "is this is what we get for 24 million??" ..Really? Do you really want a NT who will only play 40% or less of the snaps over a good QB??

[Garcon More Wine]

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

Part of me thinks the franchise has been so QB deficient for the last 20 years that the fanbase is clinging to above-average out of the fear of going back to mediocre.  Anytime you get rid of what you currently have there will be a risk, and unknown. That is just part of sports. 

 

Ideally, I'd like to see what Cousins could do with a roster built similarly to Dallas's.   A run first offense behind a monster of an O-line, that features mostly high percentage shorter throws, and the occasional long pass when the WR appears to be wide open. 

 

The issue is that Cousins is 29, (I believe 30 before the season is over?) the roster is no where near being built like a contender. In a best-case scenario, this roster could be built to contend by the time Cousins is what, 32, 33ish?  So the window for him will be rapidly closing. 

 

thats part of it.  its like we finally got like a semi hot girl that has a sex drive after years of having that disgusting hog beast.  is she amazing in bed?  no, but she gets the job done, and we could add some toys and oils to spice things up and make do with what we have.

 

we probably wont win the sex bowl, but at least we'll have fun for a few years.  lol

4 minutes ago, Alexa said:

Why are so many Redskins fans so hung up on Kirk's contract? He earned the money by his play the last couple of years. That's the price for above average QB play. I knew as soon as he had a bad game it's..  "he's not worth the money" ...  "is this is what we get for 24 million??" ..Really? Do you really want a NT who will only play 40% or less of the snaps over a good QB??

 

Nose tackles dont cost any money.  theyre part time fatso's that have a shelf life of a few years.  dont get me wrong, i want one, but our defense doesnt just hinge on a big dude in the middle.  and again, if we wanted one we'd have one.  the jets just released a big fatso with high PFF marks, and we didnt even bother looking at him.

[CTskin]

Kirk's benefited from a very QB-stat-friendly system who chokes in the big games. Paying $25M+/yr for that just doesn't make sense. People wouldn't be critiquing Gruden's playcalling yesterday if Kirk played like a professional QB. 

 

I got crucified for saying we should have grabbed Peterman when he dropped in the draft. The pro-Kirk crowd said that not drafting Peterman would be great for contract negotiations... Well, it wasn't and it would have been nice to have a light at the end of the tunnel other than Kirk or we tank and get a top college QB.

 

3 points in the second half...  No bueno

[DJD2]

1 hour ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

We all do. Go find one and then make sure he falls in our laps instead of one of the other 31 teams come draft day.

 

1 hour ago, purbeast said:

Why don't you go get one from the QB store since you seem to think it's so easy to get one.

 

Kirk had an awful game no doubt.

 

It's a lot more amusing to read all of the "sky is falling our season is doomed 0-16 with KC" posts than I thought it would be.  The radio is just as comical too.

 

Damn, things are salty this morning.

 

Never said anything about getting rid of Kirk or easily finding a franchise QB, so don't put words in my mouth.

[Rattlesnake88]

Kirk played terribly, but atleast we arnt the Giants. What in the hell...

[Gregpeck99]

I thought the OL let KC down yesterday by not protecting and not run-blocking adequately.

 

The "Fix" is to move Trent to Left Guard and play Nseke at LT.

 

Skins did this before and it worked fine. 

[justice98]

2 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Kirk's benefited from a very QB-stat-friendly system who chokes in the big games. Paying $25M+/yr for that just doesn't make sense. People wouldn't be critiquing Gruden's playcalling yesterday if Kirk played like a professional QB. 

 

I got crucified for saying we should have grabbed Peterman when he dropped in the draft. The pro-Kirk crowd said that not drafting Peterman would be great for contract negotiations... Well, it wasn't and it would have been nice to have a light at the end of the tunnel other than Kirk or we tank and get a top college QB.

 

3 points in the second half...  No bueno

 

If they're gonna start over,  after this season would be the time.  QB rich draft, lot of potential cap space, not a lot of "core" young, not expendable guys to build with.  Crowder, Reed, Scherff, Allen.....that's about it really.

2 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Kirk played terribly, but atleast we arnt the Giants. What in the hell...

 

What a waste of a good defense.  But no OBJ makes all the difference for them, he's that good.

2 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Kirk played terribly, but atleast we arnt the Giants. What in the hell...

 

What a waste of a good defense.  But no OBJ makes all the difference for them, he's that good.

[Garcon More Wine]

5 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

If they're gonna start over,  after this season would be the time.  QB rich draft, lot of potential cap space, not a lot of "core" young, not expendable guys to build with.  Crowder, Reed, Scherff, Allen.....that's about it really.

 

the only way that works is if we can somehow draft a stud rookie QB that can start right away, and spend money on vets all over the offense to help him out (top WR in FA, more oline help, and somehow fix this damn run game).

[justice98]

9 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

 

the only way that works is if we can somehow draft a stud rookie QB that can start right away, and spend money on vets all over the offense to help him out (top WR in FA, more oline help, and somehow fix this damn run game).

 

If they would be looking for a one year fix.  Maybe that's just not in the cards.

[Llevron]

55 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Part of me thinks the franchise has been so QB deficient for the last 20 years that the fanbase is clinging to above-average out of the fear of going back to mediocre.  Anytime you get rid of what you currently have there will be a risk, and unknown. That is just part of sports. 

 

Ideally, I'd like to see what Cousins could do with a roster built similarly to Dallas's.   A run first offense behind a monster of an O-line, that features mostly high percentage shorter throws, and the occasional long pass when the WR appears to be wide open. 

 

The issue is that Cousins is 29, (I believe 30 before the season is over?) the roster is no where near being built like a contender. In a best-case scenario, this roster could be built to contend by the time Cousins is what, 32, 33ish?  So the window for him will be rapidly closing. 

 

And I think that's the point. Combine the above with our possible cap issues once he is the highest paid player in league history, you begin to see how we just dont have a chance with him. Unfortunately.  

[Fat Stupid Loser]

23 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

 

 

Damn, things are salty this morning.

 

Never said anything about getting rid of Kirk or easily finding a franchise QB, so don't put words in my mouth.

Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. You said you wanted a QB that elevated the team. Suggesting Kirk isn't that guy. OK.  There are about 5 QBs in the league that elevate the team by their own play. The rest are good to average to not so good QBs. Keeping in mind that all NFL QBs are really pretty good or they wouldn't be there.

The odds of getting the unicorn are so freakin low. Isn't that obvious by now to us since about 1985. When you get a good QB, you accept his non-unicorn limitations and build what you can around him. And yes, you pay too much for him. And yes, he will outright suck 4 times a year. Like all but the prettiest unicorn. You know, the one with rainbows spewing from his ass and the trophy wife. We lose Kirk, we WILL go backwards. Build the rest or we can just keep making trips to 7-11 to buy those lottery tickets cause today is our day.

[skinsfan834]

I think Kirk will be fine going forward this year. But the thing is, do you really want your franchise QB, and potentially the highest paid player in the NFL, playing at a "fine" level?

 

I've been a huge Cousins supporter for a while and was upset at the FO when we didn't extend him this off-season. Yesterday, however, kind of solidified that my belief was more so in the system than the QB. Gruden, for all of his shortcomings, runs an offense that gets receivers open. Heck, Ryan Grant posted 4 catches for 61 yards yesterday. You translate those numbers to a full season and that's 65 catches and close to 1,000 yards. With Ryan Grant! 

 

I truly think this offense would run more efficiently with an average QB on an average NFL salary. I think I am in the boat of drafting a rookie QB in the first 3 rounds next year and then load up significantly on upgrades to our RB and starting LG/C.  I'd love to bring Kirk back if it didn't mean committing 20% of our total salary to him because he is an average NFL QB. But that is not feasible in today's league where some team is going to trick themselves into paying the guy All-Pro money. 

[NewCliche21]

18 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I think he's an above-average starting NFL QB who you can win with if the roster is good enough.

 

I think it will be really hard to find someone who is definitely better.

 

Despite those things I'm pretty much done waiting for him to take that next step. Rooting for Kirk is just not a fun experience as a fan, and I'm almost ready for a fresh cheap rookie to place all my hopes into, to break down their every flash and bump in the road. 

 

I know it's irrational but I'm almost ready to give up on being average with Kirk and embrace the boom/bust of a future 1st round rookie with potential. 

 

I'm exactly here, especially that second line.  It's not necessarily thinking that he's a god so much as it is not having any confidence in a replacement.

 

While I think that getting someone in the first round next year would be great, it's also a huge gamble and I'm still exhausted from RGIII.  And Kirk.

[DM72]

This is the problem with Cousins. I don't know if anyone has said this. As the QB, he cannot be a big reason we lose. He throws some backbreaking INT's. That cannot be denied. You don't see Dak making those types of mistakes and he's in his second year. Number one job of the QB is to protect the ball. 

 

We will never win a championship with Cousins. If everything goes right, he'll get you to 9-7 tops. 

[Wyvern]

It's not always about the QB.  Re-watching the game, Maybe the receiving corps still needs to gel a bit more -- I got the sense that they don't have the over the middle timing patterns down yet.  

 

And until Grant or Crowder can start making the tough contested catches like Garçon-- and Pryor can play more like an 11 we used to know  -- the passing game is going to struggle. Oh, BTW, 'effin Doctson needs to show up!?

 

Cousins is not a superman QB, and it's obvious the ongoing learning curve of the WRs are getting to him, at least to the point he's having to closely watch them, rather than simply trust they'll be in their spot.  

 

I'd say that WR coach Hilliard has got his work cut out -- at least to get these newbie WRs gelling into a more coherent, coordinated group that know their routes and how the timing of their roles coordinates with their fellow WRs' running routes.  I'd hoped that sort of thing  would have been learned in preseason, but apparently the lessons are still ongoing.  ....And how about WRs starting to shake off the rust?  .... How many drops happened yesterday?  Are we going to blame them all on Cousins, or maybe there's still a little WR rust when it comes to game-day speed?

[illone]

Problem is we will be competitive enough to miss out on drafting one of the top QBs in 2018....

 

kirk is who he is. Consistently inconsistent. 

[Gerald362]

12 hours ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

Every year in the same system with the same personnel will cause anyone to grow. It will help Kirk, the receivers, the line, everyone. Consistency at key positions is what makes teams competitive. Overactive and blowing things up makes you a constant joke. 

So he is consistent.  Why don't we resign Jason Campbell, he was consistent, showed flashes of skill, could check down to open receivers consistently.  That is what you say is good.  We could have that at a much lower price, and would just need the same things to win that we do now.