Common Kirk....I just don't know....

[SkinsFTW]

2 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

 

Our new coach in 2018 will draft our new savior, with our Top 7 draft pick.

 

Lets hope this mythical player is better than Heath Shuler(4), Brad Johnson(11), Patrick Ramsey(32), Jason Campbell(25), RG3(2).

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

Get over what you personally think a quarterback is worth. That's what quarterbacks cost. Don't want to pay what they cost? You either pray you get lucky or end up like the browns, bills, and jets. We know how that worked out for us for the last 20 years. Everyone complaining about what the ravens paid Flacco yet they are competitive year in and year out. Wouldn't that be nice for once?

Flacco also got that payday after winning a SB and being a SB MVP. Kirk **** the bed in his only playoff game and then last year did the same in games that would have gotten us into the playoffs.

 

Bit of a difference there.

[Alexa]

1 hour ago, alwaysaskin said:

If 8 wins is our ceiling we need to cut ties and move on, all that means is that you're mediocre and don't get the opportunity to draft a difference maker

there are plenty of busts in the top 5 picks of the draft. we should know that better than anyone. and there's also very good/great players taken in the later rounds. 

[LaxBuddy21]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

Flacco also got that payday after winning a SB and being a SB MVP. Kirk **** the bed in his only playoff game and then last year did the same in games that would have gotten us into the playoffs.

 

Bit of a difference there.

Yea cuz Flacco carried that team right? Flacco got paid because his contract was due to be renewed and they didn't want to start back digging through the scrap heap. Trent Dilfer won a superbowl too and how did his contract end up? You pay quarterbacks that are good enough to win or you go back to being irrelevant. It's pretty simple. 

[Garcon More Wine]

3 minutes ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

And this, ladies and gentleman, is why we fall to compete with the big boys. The guys in charge have as much understanding of how to build a successful team as many of the fans do. This isn't fantasy football. Look at where the 49ers are now and where the chiefs are. One let a quarterback go because he wasn't a superstar and the other built around him. 

 

exactly.  we are better off signing kirk to a deal and building up the rest of the roster.  the other option is letting cousins walk, firing gruden, and starting from scratch, and i feel this current roster is closer than we've been in a long time.  look at our rosters in the snyder era.  outside of 2005, this is probably our best roster in terms of youth and talent. 

 

blowing this up would literally put us back to square one.

[alwaysaskin]

Just now, LaxBuddy21 said:

And this, ladies and gentleman, is why we fall to compete with the big boys. The guys in charge have as much understanding of how to build a successful team as many of the fans do. This isn't fantasy football. Look at where the 49ers are now and where the chiefs are. One let a quarterback go because he wasn't a superstar and the other built around him. 

Whatever dude, once again outside of it's the going rate for NFL QB's what has Cousins done to earn a big time contract? Its not even potential at this point, Kirk's 29 what are we going to bank on a 30 year old who potentially could lead the team to a first round playoff loss? Sign him to a cap friendly deal at what he's actually worth and that would be great, and maybe just maybe the team could afford some talent around him. Just don't break the bank on this guy

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

Yea cuz Flacco carried that team right? Flacco got paid because his contract was due to be renewed and they didn't want to start back digging through the scrap heap. Trent Dilfer won a superbowl too and how did his contract end up? You pay quarterbacks that are good enough to win or you go back to being irrelevant. It's pretty simple. 

Say what you will about Flacco, but he was freakin clutch during that SB run and was definitely a big part of why they won.11 TDs and 0 INTs in that playoff/SB run. There isn't any comparison to his play during that and Dilfer's. Dilfer had 3 TDs and 1 INTs through their whole playoff and SB run. 

[Garcon More Wine]

2 minutes ago, alwaysaskin said:

Whatever dude, once again outside of it's the going rate for NFL QB's what has Cousins done to earn a big time contract? Its not even potential at this point, Kirk's 29 what are we going to bank on a 30 year old who potentially could lead the team to a first round playoff loss? Sign him to a cap friendly deal at what he's actually worth and that would be great, and maybe just maybe the team could afford some talent around him. Just don't break the bank on this guy

 

our best bit of luck is that kirk goes like 8-8 again, and he tries to sign some psycho deal and nobody wants any part of it, and he comes back to us on a cap friendly deal.  not sure that will happen, but who knows.

 

again, if kirk walks, we start from scratch or we end up with one of the mccown brothers.  i really dont want to spend my sunday watching one of the mccown brothers.

paying kirk 28 mil a year of money that isnt yours > watching a mccown throw a football in any capacity

[TheShredder]

3 minutes ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

And this, ladies and gentleman, is why we fall to compete with the big boys. The guys in charge have as much understanding of how to build a successful team as many of the fans do. This isn't fantasy football. Look at where the 49ers are now and where the chiefs are. One let a quarterback go because he wasn't a superstar and the other built around him. 

I think that's a good example. Another reason the 49'ers would over compensate to get KC. 

Just looked at the draft pick order and W/L records...probably need to lose 14 games to get the top pick.  KC will ge it going late and put up 6 wins, which will screw up the draft.  As soon as he gets going they need to trade him for a 1st round pick swap and try to move up now.  I got a hunch that the 49'ers will get KC and Pryor. 

The defense is looking up.  They could go all in on defense and splash off on Drew Brees for 2 yrs or go with a McCoy (Grossman type)...while spending the effort on OL and Defense.  There's a lot of options past KC.  Sure they've got a Plan B that they like. 

[mistertim]

Just now, TheShredder said:

I think that's a good example. Another reason the 49'ers would over compensate to get KC. 

Just looked at the draft pick order and W/L records...probably need to lose 14 games to get the top pick.  KC will ge it going late and put up 6 wins, which will screw up the draft.  As soon as he gets going they need to trade him for a 1st round pick swap and try to move up now.  I got a hunch that the 49'ers will get KC and Pryor. 

The defense is looking up.  They could go all in on defense and splash off on Drew Brees for 2 yrs or go with a McCoy (Grossman type)...while spending the effort on OL and Defense.  There's a lot of options past KC.  Sure they've got a Plan B that they like. 

 

Why would SF pay a NFL record contract for a 30 year old QB with a history of bad consistency issues and playing poorly when it matters most? If they end up with a horrible record this year (likely) they will probably have a top 2 pick and will be able to get one of the blue chip prospects in a very deep QB draft class. Then they'd have a young, relatively cheap blue chip talent that they can groom and who can grow as they build a team around him. 

[Veretax]

I don't know if my heart can take another game like that one.  the bits I actually got to see.  

[Garcon More Wine]

1 minute ago, TheShredder said:

I think that's a good example. Another reason the 49'ers would over compensate to get KC. 

Just looked at the draft pick order and W/L records...probably need to lose 14 games to get the top pick.  KC will ge it going late and put up 6 wins, which will screw up the draft.  As soon as he gets going they need to trade him for a 1st round pick swap and try to move up now.  I got a hunch that the 49'ers will get KC and Pryor. 

The defense is looking up.  They could go all in on defense and splash off on Drew Brees for 2 yrs or go with a McCoy (Grossman type)...while spending the effort on OL and Defense.  There's a lot of options past KC.  Sure they've got a Plan B that they like. 

 

 

you really want to watch that trash?  colt mccoy playing?  luke mccown?  our plan B needs to be a rookie because there is NO future in retread crap.  or have you not been watching the past 17 years?  brunell, grossman, beck, mcnabb, collins, banks, hasselbeck, george: all of this ended in absolutely nothing.  

 

outside of griffins magic 2012, cousins is the closest weve had to a legit franchise QB since the 80s lol.

[TheCoach22]

8 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

 

our best bit of luck is that kirk goes like 8-8 again, and he tries to sign some psycho deal and nobody wants any part of it, and he comes back to us on a cap friendly deal.  not sure that will happen, but who knows.

 

again, if kirk walks, we start from scratch or we end up with one of the mccown brothers.  i really dont want to spend my sunday watching one of the mccown brothers.

paying kirk 28 mil a year of money that isnt yours > watching a mccown throw a football in any capacity

Today he looked like Kirk McCown... and that is pretty much what he does most big stage games.

[TheShredder]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Say what you will about Flacco, but he was freakin clutch during that SB run and was definitely a big part of why they won.11 TDs and 0 INTs in that playoff/SB run. There isn't any comparison to his play during that and Dilfer's. Dilfer had 3 TDs and 1 INTs through their whole playoff and SB run. 

I'm just seeing the same thing year after year.  He gets started terribly and slow consistently.  He's moody like that and you have to look at the coach.  They were arguing on the sidelines.  KC was pissed with the OL (yelling at TW who deserved it) and completely overwhelmed.  Throws were high, behind, or to the wrong team.  He'll be better next week..surely the week after that...but still not looking comfortable.  Everybody sees his bad streaks going 4-5 weeks, then he plays well in about 12 games.  IDK if you want to build around that or not after 4 years....I'm fine with a good trade ASAP. 

[zCommander]

Can we agree Eli is better than Kirk? If so then they only have 3 points on the board and the game is almost over. Why? Does Eli has more chemistry with Odell?

 

I will wait to see how the first 4 games shake out with Kirk. Kirk has said the same thing. The chemistry/timing will need some real time play. IF some how we end up 2-2 going into the by-week then that is good for us. 

 

Kirk is not elite. But he can be when the timing has been worked out with his new WR. For example, he threw the ball and Thompson wasn't there as he got tangled up. Kirk was expecting him to be there. Again the ball was thrown to a spot and to someone watching the game it looked like Kirk threw the ball to no one. Let's blame Kirk here too. This is just one example. 

 

The timing growing pains needs to be worked out fast though if we are to have a meaningful season. 

[TheShredder]

5 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

 

 

you really want to watch that trash?  colt mccoy playing?  luke mccown?  our plan B needs to be a rookie because there is NO future in retread crap.  or have you not been watching the past 17 years?  brunell, grossman, beck, mcnabb, collins, banks, hasselbeck, george: all of this ended in absolutely nothing.  

 

outside of griffins magic 2012, cousins is the closest weve had to a legit franchise QB since the 80s lol.

No I don't.  I dont think anyone does.

I'm not stating that's what I want to see.

[Garcon More Wine]

1 minute ago, TheCoach22 said:

Today he looked like Kirk McCown... and that is pretty much what he does most big stage games.

 

lol, not gonna defend today.  again, this was his 1st start of 3rd year as non backup/mop up guy.  hes still young in football years, and can still get better.  matt stafford just signed the largest deal in NFL history.  he has made 1 pro bowl, and has never won a playoff game, and has started 109 games.

 

kirk has started 41, made one pro bowl, and lost one playoff game.  theyre pretty similar in terms of what theyve accomplished.  is stafford elite?  probably not, but hes getting paid that way.  hes got a penchant for horrible mistakes as well.  but its better to pay stafford and stay competitive than to scrap him and start all over because hes not drew brees.

[NickyJ]

4 minutes ago, zskins said:

Can we agree Eli is better than Kirk?

No. Eli is trash, and I will stand by that statement every time, 2 rings or not.

 

3 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

again, this was his 1st start of 3rd year as non backup/mop up guy.  hes still young in football years, and can still get better.

I don't remember who said it or in what thread, but to whoever joked that Cousins is still basically a rookie, kudos to you. I thought the third year as a starter would finally bring it to an end.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

 

 

you really want to watch that trash?  colt mccoy playing?  luke mccown?  our plan B needs to be a rookie because there is NO future in retread crap.  or have you not been watching the past 17 years?  brunell, grossman, beck, mcnabb, collins, banks, hasselbeck, george: all of this ended in absolutely nothing.  

 

outside of griffins magic 2012, cousins is the closest weve had to a legit franchise QB since the 80s lol.

 

If we get a decent draft pick and snag a good QB prospect I'm ok with McCoy starting for a year if the new guy needs to adjust. I honestly don't see us ever being better than 9-7 or maybe 10-6 with Kirk at the helm. He's just too inconsistent and tends to play poorly against good teams or when its under the bright lights or high pressure situations. So I guess we could pay Kirk a king's ransom and then get used to just missing the playoffs or losing in the first round for the next 5-6 years.

[Garcon More Wine]

7 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

No I don't.  I dont think anyone does.

I'm not stating that's what I want to see.

 

lol well ok then!  i can stomach rebuilding if its with a young potential QB that we're all excited about.  dont even care where he was drafted, just the idea that the guy has a future is enough juice for me.

 

i cannot stomach rebuilding if im watching guys with zero future in the NFL playing for us, it is absolutely meaningless.  aka john beck

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

If we get a decent draft pick and snag a good QB prospect I'm ok with McCoy starting for a year if the new guy needs to adjust. I honestly don't see us ever being better than 9-7 or maybe 10-6 with Kirk at the helm. He's just too inconsistent and tends to play poorly against good teams or when its under the bright lights or high pressure situations. So I guess we could pay Kirk a king's ransom and then get used to just missing the playoffs or losing in the first round for the next 5-6 years.

 

i would rather have the ceiling of 10-6 with kirk (with the potential for some bigger years if we get some true blue chip play makers elsewhere) for 4 more years than go back to the drawing board and start over.  havent we done that enough for everyone? 

we're finally close to winning consistently (not being the 91 skins) with some solid players and everyone wants to blow it up to draft the next blake bortles because cousins ceiling isnt high enough and he wants to much money.  i think some of you forgot what 2009 and 2011 and 2013 looked like lol.

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

[Garcon More Wine]

7 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

No. Eli is trash, and I will stand by that statement every time, 2 rings or not.

 

I don't remember who said it or in what thread, but to whoever joked that Cousins is still basically a rookie, kudos to you. I thought the third year as a starter would finally bring it to an end.

 

 

lol hes not a rookie, but hes not not some truly seasoned vet.  again, hes started 42 games as of today, stafford who is a year young started his 110th today.  so no hes not a rookie by any means, but hes only played 2+ seasons worth of football.

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

 

i would rather have the ceiling of 10-6 with kirk (with the potential for some bigger years if we get some true blue chip play makers elsewhere) for 4 more years than go back to the drawing board and start over.  havent we done that enough for everyone? 

we're finally close to winning consistently (not being the 91 skins) with some solid players and everyone wants to blow it up to draft the next blake bortles because cousins ceiling isnt high enough and he wants to much money.  i think some of you forgot what 2009 and 2011 and 2013 looked like lol.

IMO unless Kirk somehow magically fixes his issues which he has had since he started in the NFL (actually since college IIRC) or we somehow manage to build a dominant run game and defense within the next couple of years I don't see Kirk ever winning a SB. He just folds too easily in high pressure situations. So I'd rather get a very talented rookie with tons of actual upside and see where that takes us, even if we have to roll with McCoy for a year, than pay Kirk a gazillion dollars to be a slightly above average QB who can't win the big games.

[NoCalMike]

A prevailing thought I keep hearing is that a lot of folks want to pay Kirk out of the fear of the unknown.  If Kirk goes......then what?  That is a question none of us can answer.  

 

However, at the same if Kirk has peaked already, would you say you know enough about him as a QB to be comfortable with him leading this team to a championship?  He is 29, he could be 32-33 before this team's roster is built up enough to actually be a contender, and that is assuming everything goes according to plan and the team steadily climbs between now and then which is definitely not a forgone conclusion.

 

Secondly, the modern NFL is a different game.  It is much more friendly to young QB's entering the league.  I'm not saying the next QB drafted would magically turn into a franchise QB over night, however it is becoming more and more common for QB's as rookies be productive and keep the production up those first few seasons before becoming full-on franchise QB's.

 

Lastly, if Cousins accepted a fair market deal for his skill level, all these threads would be moot.  He is the one who decided to bet on himself again in order to seek out the most money possible.  Well, there is a downside to that, and performances like we saw today aren't going to be forgotten at the negotiating table. 

 

[Garcon More Wine]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

IMO unless Kirk somehow magically fixes his issues which he has had since he started in the NFL (actually since college IIRC) or we somehow manage to build a dominant run game and defense within the next couple of years I don't see Kirk ever winning a SB. He just folds too easily in high pressure situations. So I'd rather get a very talented rookie with tons of actual upside and see where that takes us, even if we have to roll with McCoy for a year, than pay Kirk a gazillion dollars to be a slightly above average QB who can't win the big games.

 

i keep seeing that he folds in the big games.  exactly what games has he really folded in?  the one playoff game hes played against a hall of fame QB (where our defense was absolutely putrid)?  and one game last year to get us into the playoffs against the giants (yes he was bad).

 

we havent been in that may high pressure situations lol.  and the last two seasons weve had arguably the worst defense that ive ever seen at least since synder took over.  hes somehow managed to keep us afloat with no running game to speak of, and no defense at all.  imagine if the dude had a running back that wasnt a converted fat fullback who knew how to actually gain more than 2 yards?  imagine if he had a defense to give him some shorter fields so we didnt have to drive 92 yards every time.

 

anyone pay attention to the saints?  drew brees is arguably a top 3 QB for the past decade, yet somehow they cannot even get to the playoffs, let alone sustain winning seasons anymore.  brees has gone 7-9 3 straight years, because his team has no ground game and no defense.  even the best QBs in the world arent just a one man show, and kirk is no different.  im not saying hes drew brees, but he barely has the chance to do anything because if he isnt perfect, the team collapses.  id at least like to give kirk a ground game and a top 14 defense and see what he can do.  so far hes had undrafted free agents and fumbling failures in the backfield, coupled with historically terrible defenses two years running, and has still managed to have back to back winning years.

[DM72]

19 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

 

lol, not gonna defend today.  again, this was his 1st start of 3rd year as non backup/mop up guy.  hes still young in football years, and can still get better.  matt stafford just signed the largest deal in NFL history.  he has made 1 pro bowl, and has never won a playoff game, and has started 109 games

 

Man, I thought we had moved past the "he's still young in football years."