NYDN: Passenger Dragged off of Overbooked United Airlines Plane

[Riggo#44]

 

[Kosher Ham]

29 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

I went to Mardi Gras in New Orleans 3 years ago and the airline, I think U.S. Airways, offered me a hotel and a free flight the next day. Let's see ... DUH. Surprised nobody said yes at $800.

 

You clearly had no plans for the next day. Been to NO...it's filthy and nothing special. 

 

11 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Well........

 

He paid for a ticket and seat. Why is the airline not held accountable in that situation ? I might have meeting in a few hours and need to get to that destination. 

Sure, he was dramatic, but I feel he was justified in his point/position. $800 bucks is nothing compared to real life costs. My Mother told me when I was a kid...a 1000... isn't really a lot of money. 

[DogofWar1]

One of the more interesting aspects of this is how viral it went in China (over 60 million views as of last night so probably way higher now) and how United decided not to hold a press conference in China on it.  Was seeing people on twitter really question what United is doing, since there is potentially a lot of reputational damage they could be taking.

[Springfield]

1 hour ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

PLEASE explain what he did wrong? 

 

And the people videotaping?  What could they have done?  Good on them for filming. 

 

He didn't get off the plane when requested.

 

The people did nothing to help him.

[twa]

4 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

  Was seeing people on twitter really question what United is doing, since there is potentially a lot of reputational damage they could be taking.

 

Obviously you have never flown United.....reputation 

[Llevron]

 

Despite the scary graph this isn't really a huge fall. And the real money associated will be made up in a few weeks once people forget and greedy people think this is a sure buy and sell. 

[Springfield]

11 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Despite the scary graph this isn't really a huge fall. And the real money associated will be made up in a few weeks once people forget and greedy people think this is a sure buy and sell. 

 

This is a buying opportunity.  Plus, the markets tanked this morning anyhow.

[Llevron]

Just now, Springfield said:

 

This is a buying opportunity.  Plus, the markets tanked this morning anyhow.

 

Would I be a jerk by buying into this knowing that bad business practices will make me money? 

 

Cause its going to go back up eventually. Consumers dont care past the now, so they wont remember in a month. And there is nothing like Arline money cause no one is trying to take their business, honestly. 

 

I feel like i would be a jerk by doing this. (hasnt stopped me before) 

[MassSkinsFan]

I'm sure it's been said already, but the big defining moment where all this went wrong was when someone on United's staff allowed the passengers to board despite knowing they'd overbooked by 4 seats.

 

Once people have possession of the seat, they're not going to suddenly volunteer to give it up, and they're not likely to comply with an order to vacate it.

 

Holding up the boarding process until someone took the deal would have been the smartest move. Secondarily, ordering the removal of four passengers prior to boarding would mean simply not allowing them onto the plane - easier to enforce than ripping someone from their seat and dragging them off.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

31 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

He paid for a ticket and seat. Why is the airline not held accountable in that situation ? I might have meeting in a few hours and need to get to that destination. 

Sure, he was dramatic, but I feel he was justified in his point/position. $800 bucks is nothing compared to real life costs. My Mother told me when I was a kid...a 1000... isn't really a lot of money. 

 

I get all that, I think the policies that allow airlines to bump passengers for staff is ridiculous and could be solved by just being regulated to not sell say 4 seats and reserve those for pilots and staff in the event they have to catch a flight to another city to work (like this situation).  It's about greed first though, they want that $$$ so they don't do that.  

 

Or, if they are going to keep that policy, then these situations can be avoided if they pick the random people, say one from each boarding zone and when they hand them their ticket, tell them there has been a problem with their seat and that they need to go to the ticketing kiosk/agent for further explanation.  Then them boarding is avoided and any frustration, etc. would be off of the plane and most likely result in angry verbal exchanges instead of physical altercations.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

 

4 h 38 min (299.8 mi) via I-65 S

 

Honestly, Im surprised so many ppl would fly vs driving for 4.5 hours. Going to airport, checking in, boarding, getting off plane, baggage etc probably takes 4.5 hours and that assumes everything goes as intended. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Or, if they are going to keep that policy, then these situations can be avoided if they pick the random people, say one from each boarding zone and when they hand them their ticket, tell them there has been a problem with their seat and that they need to go to the ticketing kiosk/agent for further explanation.  Then them boarding is avoided and any frustration, etc. would be off of the plane and most likely result in angry verbal exchanges instead of physical altercations.

 

I highly doubt the people were selected at random by a computer like United said. Id guess it was randomly selected from a group of ppl that had no frequent flyer/business memberships and bottom 20% of ticket prices. 

 

No way United is allowing frequent flyers to be treated this way. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Just now, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

I highly doubt the people were selected at random by a computer like United said. Id guess it was randomly selected from a group of ppl that had no frequent flyer/business memberships and bottom 20% of ticket prices. 

 

No way United is allowing frequent flyers to be treated this way. 

 

Me either, but just lie and go with it at boarding to avoid future situations like these.

[Springfield]

[Sticksboi05]

1 hour ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

You clearly had no plans for the next day. Been to NO...it's filthy and nothing special. 

 

 

He paid for a ticket and seat. Why is the airline not held accountable in that situation ? I might have meeting in a few hours and need to get to that destination. 

Sure, he was dramatic, but I feel he was justified in his point/position. $800 bucks is nothing compared to real life costs. My Mother told me when I was a kid...a 1000... isn't really a lot of money. 

 

Chill out guy, I'm not defending what United did at all. Quite frankly it's insane they allowed it to come to that when there were plenty of other options to simply get one more person off the plane that don't involve possibly concussing someone.

 

In a country where over 50% of people don't have enough to cover a random $500 expense, $1000 is indeed a lot of money. But offering $1000 in travel vouchers on a terrible airline isn't quite as appealing as actual money of course.

 

 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

New Orleans is my mistress. Love that lady. You need to venture outside the Quarter. 

[RonArtest15]

1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Well........he refused to comply with the airline policy, refused to give up his seat, physically resisted to be removed from his seat when security arrived to handle the situation.  It's the rules, clearly explained and known that it could happen to any passenger on any of their flights.  

 

Do the rules suck?  Absolutely.  Was there excessive force used to remove him?  I think there was.  Should the passenger have acted like an adult that was in their 60s instead of a 5 year old having a temper tantrum?  Absolutely.  

 

When?  I'm not talking about the fine print...

 

And if that was the case, this wouldn't be happening:
 

Quote

A security officer involved in the episode has been placed on leave, the authorities said, and the federal Transportation Department is investigating whether the airline complied with rules regarding overbooking.

 

 

Link

 

And from the witness account, the manager did NOTHING to deescalate the situation.  Even condescendingly laughed at some of the passengers.  This is a complete show right now...one of which that is going to cost United plenty of customers, and most likely millions of dollars. 

[PokerPacker]

34 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Honestly, Im surprised so many ppl would fly vs driving for 4.5 hours. Going to airport, checking in, boarding, getting off plane, baggage etc probably takes 4.5 hours and that assumes everything goes as intended.

I'm guessing a large segment of that flight's passengers stopped in Chicago as a layover.

[Kilmer17]

United wont lose any passengers.  At least none significantly.  

 

People buy plane tickets based on price, schedule and airport.

 

They might have some sales to grab the small percentage of people who might choose another airline with similar times and price for a bit, but overall, it wont affect their passenger numbers.

 

Their stock price went down a bit, but that'll get gobbled up shortly by short term investors looking to make a quick profit.

[Elessar78]

2 hours ago, Kosher Ham said:

Hell with his ankles. He'll be able to buy his own plane. 

#rttinvasion

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Just now, RonArtest15 said:

 

When?  I'm not talking about the fine print...

 

And if that was the case, this wouldn't be happening:
 

 

Link

 

And from the witness account, the manager did NOTHING to deescalate the situation.  Even condescendingly laughed at some of the passengers.  This is a complete show right now...one of which that is going to cost United plenty of customers, and most likely millions of dollars. 

 

I'm not condoning what happened to the man.  But it's a policy that all airlines have and if he didn't know about it, I'd imagine that it was explained to him and the rest of the passengers when they were asking for volunteers while explaining what it was for (according to your article, they were told why).  He got picked to give up his seat, yes it sucks, but it happens.  

 

He refused to comply with the policy, he refused to leave the plane when asked to by airline staff.  He refused to leave when confronted by airline security and lastly he physically resisted being escorted off the plane.  Article says the other three passengers left the plane when asked without incident.  

 

Like I said, I think the policy is stupid, I think there are ways to avoid incidents like this with a tweak or change in said policy.  I agreed that they went too far in removing him.  But he did not help his situation any by his actions.  

[RonArtest15]

2 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

I'm not condoning what happened to the man.  But it's a policy that all airlines have and if he didn't know about it, I'd imagine that it was explained to him and the rest of the passengers when they were asking for volunteers while explaining what it was for (according to your article, they were told why).  He got picked to give up his seat, yes it sucks, but it happens.  

 

He refused to comply with the policy, he refused to leave the plane when asked to by airline staff.  He refused to leave when confronted by airline security and lastly he physically resisted being escorted off the plane.  Article says the other three passengers left the plane when asked without incident.  

 

Like I said, I think the policy is stupid, I think there are ways to avoid incidents like this with a tweak or change in said policy.  I agreed that they went too far in removing him.  But he did not help his situation any by his actions.  

 

I've been on overbooked flights.  Had management ask for volunteers (for travel vouchers/hotels) to give up seats.  Never once have I heard a policy explained that people will be forcibly removed if you're not complying.  Yes, apparently it is a policy, but, was it actually explained during this whole ordeal?  Like at one time?  It may sound like the airlines is making things up on the fly if they come back with the "we'll forcibly remove you per FAA rules" after asking for people to volunteer.  I can understand why the guy didn't want to give up his seat.  Also

 

:

 

From the Times article:
 

Quote

A United employee first approached a couple who appeared to be in their mid-20s, Mr. Bridges said, and the pair begrudgingly got off the plane.

 

 

Their account of what happened will be VERY important in the grand scheme of things.  I'm curious to find out how things were presented to them...

[Mooka]

I'm still waiting to hear how a bleeding, delirious, 69 year old man GOT BACK ONTO THE ****ING PLANE?/??????????????

 

Think Kilmer has the correct stance, once United called in the police to remove the guy its over. He's getting removed. Excessive force is a different argument, not really sure how I feel on that one. Kinda hard to remove someone from an airline seat who doesn't want to move. I hope the cop is in trouble for the COLOSSAL ****up of allowing this guy BACK ON THE PLANE and not excessive force. 

 

 

Now personally, I don't think an airline should be able to call the police to remove a non-threatening person who is not committing a crime. That doesn't sound like something you call the police for. Sounds like a civil dispute between United Airlines and the customer. Obviously being on an airplane changes the law there but seems like BS to me. United should have to provide their own security for civil disputes IMO and then take the full heat for dragging paying customers off their planes. 

 

 

Ultimately, this is because United is so ****ing cheap, that policy insists that they try and save as much money as possible on bumped flights instead of just coughing up the $1350. 

btw here are your rights when being bumped:

Quote

Involuntary Bumping

DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:

• If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
• If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum.
• If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).
• If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
• You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an "involuntary refund" for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
• If you paid for optional services on your original flight (e.g., seat selection, checked baggage) and you did not receive those services on your substitute flight or were required to pay a second time, the airline that bumped you must refund those payments to you.

Like all rules, however, there are a few conditions and exceptions:

• To be eligible for compensation, you must have a confirmed reservation. A written confirmation issued by the airline or an authorized agent or reservation service qualifies you in this regard even if the airline can't find your reservation in the computer, as long as you didn't cancel your reservation or miss a reconfirmation deadline.
• Each airline has a check-in deadline, which is the amount of time before scheduled departure that you must present yourself to the airline at the airport. For domestic flights most carriers require you to be at the departure gate between 10 minutes and 30 minutes before scheduled departure, but some deadlines can be an hour or longer. Check-in deadlines on international flights can be as much as three hours before scheduled departure time. Some airlines may simply require you to be at the ticket/baggage counter by this time; most, however, require that you get all the way to the boarding area. Some may have deadlines at both locations. If you miss the check-in deadline, you may have lost your reservation and your right to compensation if the flight is oversold.

As noted above, no compensation is due if the airline arranges substitute transportation which is scheduled to arrive at your destination within one hour of your originally scheduled arrival time.

If the airline must substitute a smaller plane for the one it originally planned to use, the carrier isn't required to pay people who are bumped as a result. In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints.

The rules do not apply to charter flights, or to scheduled flights operated with planes that hold fewer than 30 passengers. They don't apply to international flights inbound to the United States, although some airlines on these routes may follow them voluntarily. Also, if you are flying between two foreign cities -- from Paris to Rome, for example -- these rules will not apply. The European Commission has a rule on bumpings that occur in an EC country; ask the airline for details, or go to http://ec.europa.eu/transport/passengers/air/air_en.htm[external link].

Airlines set their own "boarding priorities" -- the order in which they will bump different categories of passengers in an oversale situation. When a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, some airlines bump passengers with the lowest fares first. Others bump the last passengers to check in. Once you have purchased your ticket, the most effective way to reduce the risk of being bumped is to get to the airport early. For passengers in the same fare class the last passengers to check in are usually the first to be bumped, even if they have met the check-in deadline. Allow extra time; assume that the roads are backed up, the parking lot is full, and there is a long line at the check-in counter.

Airlines may offer free tickets or dollar-amount vouchers for future flights in place of a check for denied boarding compensation. However, if you are bumped involuntarily you have the right to insist on a check if that is your preference. Once you cash the check (or accept the free flight), you will probably lose the ability to pursue more money from the airline later on. However, if being bumped costs you more money than the airline will pay you at the airport, you can try to negotiate a higher settlement with their complaint department. If this doesn't work, you usually have 30 days from the date on the check to decide if you want to accept the amount of the check. You are always free to decline the check (e.g., not cash it) and take the airline to court to try to obtain more compensation. DOT's denied boarding regulation spells out the airlines' minimum obligation to people they bump involuntarily. Finally, don't be a "no-show." If you are holding confirmed reservations you don't plan to use, notify the airline. If you don't, they will cancel all onward or return reservations on your trip.

 

 

 

 

[HOF44]

The laws and regulations have been bought and paid for by the corporations in the industry.  What logic allows an airline to bump someone who has pre-paid a non-refundable ticket months in advance??? 

[Kilmer17]

I think we will see more incidents like this in the future, not less.

 

Some airlines now wont allow you to choose a seat if you are buying a basic fare.  Meaning, you'll get one assigned at the airport after all of the other folks have checked in.   Want an assigned seat?  Pay more.  The friendly skies are becoming another place where the have's and the havenots are battling, but the bad guy is neither of them.

 

Im still waiting for someone to explain to me how an airline loses money if a paying passenger doesnt show up for a flight.

 

[DM72]

42 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

United wont lose any passengers.  At least none significantly.  

 

People buy plane tickets based on price, schedule and airport.

 

Then they should, along with American Airlines. I'm currently looking at flights for a vacation in early July. It's amazing that those two can stay in business with their prices. Southwest is much more cheaper.