grego Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 @tshile - that's where I though you were going with that. Agree, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Libertarian right. Close to jschuck, but the thing is I don't vote on economic issues. I cannot agree. I see myself as left leaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, redskins59 said: Libertarian right. Close to jschuck, but the thing is I don't vote on economic issues. I cannot agree. I see myself as left leaning. I see myself as right leaning(despite consistent left results), it depends greatly on the issues at hand which way it falls in real life. and on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, twa said: I see myself as right leaning(despite consistent left results), it depends greatly on the issues at hand which way it falls in real life. and on here Some questions are more important than others. They cannot all be weighed equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, grego said: @tshile - that's where I though you were going with that. Agree, as well. if the test was true there would probably be a category for Misanthrope and it would be off the graph in one of the corners and my red X would be firmly in the middle of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcunning15 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I think the left foundation is more that every should be afforded equal opportunity not equal outcome. As far as everyone being equal i guess the constitution would like to have a word with you. Benefit of doubt is also a very important part of our legal system and structure as well. 9 minutes ago, tshile said: When you think everyone is equal, when you extend the benefit of the doubt to everyone, differences in outcomes become 'unfair' and the reasons become at least in part due to the system. I just don't think that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 13 minutes ago, twa said: I see myself as right leaning(despite consistent left results), it depends greatly on the issues at hand which way it falls in real life. and on here That speaks to the fact that this country is conservative vs ultra conservative, NOT liberal vs conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 44 minutes ago, tshile said: Anyways, you see this mindset spill over into things like... minimum wage. They support people working at fast food restaurants making a 'living wage' (another loaded term to me) because they are people too, and are where they are because they are in some way a victim of the system. I will say, I support a strong minimum wage (not sure if right now I'd go to $15), but not for the reasons you've laid out as they at least seem to be implied, and I don't know anybody that does. I support a strong minimum wage because: 1. I think our tax system for too long has favored wealth as a means to gain income over labor and that has lead to increases in wealth inequality. I suspect setting a lower limit on the value of labor will help that and decrease income inequality. I think wealth inequality is an over all negative for our economy and so for all of us, and I suspect over the longer term will have an even greater (negative) affect as increased political conflict. 2. As part of that, I suspect the minimum wage has a trickle up effect. If the fast food restaurant pays more, then other more skilled (but largely still non-skilled labor) will see a corresponding (thought not necessarily equal) boost in pay. 3. It helps me. It is a low regulation/low law (and therefore from the governments perspective cheap and easy) way to get people that need money more money (and yes at some level this is tied to the idea of a living wage). I want people to be able work and make some livable level of income because it is good for me. It lowers crime, homelessness, and helps control diseases. And we can do it without having a whole bunch of government bureaucrats and laws involved in the process. I'd much rather have a significant minimum wage than have people going on other government programs to pay for things like healthcare, food, and shelter (and even if you don't think providing those things for people is moral and ethical, if you don't long term there are going to be costs to you). Having diseased and sick people in the street and people that turn to crime because that's the easiest way out for them to support themselves (and then when they get caught having to put them in jail) are all inferior out comes with respect to myself then having a significant minimum wage even if it means I may (remember, production costs don't set prices. Supply and demand does) pay more for somethings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 As I mentioned in the other thread, I live in a Red County in an old Steel Mill town. I think another thing I didn't know when I first moved here is that the middle class and the lower class and working poor are more in contact with each other in a town like this. The Middle Class who work seem to have developed a resentment to those they feel mooch off the system. Sure, the "moochers" have a lower quality of life but in some cases—not by much. The MC really resent that they have to go to work and only live marginally better. They KNOW lots of people who live off the system. There is a sincere feeling of being ripped off—they see a direct transfer payment from their taxes to their neighbors that stay at home. When I lived in Fairfax/Arlington these concepts were abstract. Yeah, you knew there are poor people somewhere but your neighbors were generally affluent or had means. So, like the collection plate at church, you put in money (taxes) it goes somewhere but you don't really see where. Here the local credit union (from the old Steel Mill days) is right next to the benefits office. People who are there to deposit their paychecks/withdraw money on Fridays also see people lined up outside the welfare office to collect their welfare benefits. Can't say I blame them if they are not more philosophical about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Two different quizzes, two different results haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I find myself on those tests saying "well, that depends..." a lot. Things are rarely cut and dried. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Bang, I would agree. Plus there are some questions, especially with the quiz that produced the gray chart, that I'm not sure how important that I feel an issue or statement is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Not really surprised where I ended up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I like the idea of these tests, but it's hard to see the value when everyone ends up as a libertarian leftist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I've learned a lot of things over the years. One of them is this: Anyone who says "I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative" is a true jagoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Springfield said: That speaks to the fact that this country is conservative vs ultra conservative, NOT liberal vs conservative. That is why the spatial is better than the linear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 36 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I've learned a lot of things over the years. One of them is this: Anyone who says "I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative" is probably Canadian. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, mrcunning15 said: I think the left foundation is more that every should be afforded equal opportunity not equal outcome. As far as everyone being equal i guess the constitution would like to have a word with you. Benefit of doubt is also a very important part of our legal system and structure as well. Equal at the start, middle or continuously? Equal under the law is a different critter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 52 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I've learned a lot of things over the years. One of them is this: Anyone who says "I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative" is a true jagoff. I'll play off that, whether you were somewhat serious or just being LKB glib, becuase it is a buggy phrase for me as so many are just in terms of utility. I find most short-form labels hard to apply to myself and know many will say the same. The survey/chart I did isn't that reliably predictive of what my views may be on any number of issues, either, and if in unknown company and not deep discussion, have reluctantly used that phrase quite a few times as compromised shorthand, but better than nothing in casual exchanges. It's also fairly accurate for me within its limitations and I know the meaning it holds for most people. Sometimes I just say "It's issue by issue for me" simply to move into the actual conversation if one is going to take palce. Now I don't have an issue with you (or twa or anyone) determining I'm a huge jagoff ----I know few adult males who don't fit that description at times---certainly you included, though overall I think you're a great guy as far as I can tell and love your posting. The degree of your "seriousness" there aside, I'm repeating what's been said in here earlier as a general suggestion: let's work to keep the tone of this particular thread non-insulting and avoid agitating forms of confrontation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Here is mine..not too much of a surprise. Your Political Compass Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I'm not going to be glib for a while. Here is my concern with that phrase. Socially liberal is easy. "Oh, Dan and his husband Mark just moved next door and they are just a delight......" "Of course, Bobby can come to Omar's sleepover." "Hey, did you hear that the fist pot shop is opening in town? We should have a girls weekend!!" People who use that phrase tend to think that their own views are all that matter and when the rubber meets the road, it's the physically conservative piece that matters in terms of government. Social justice is very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Anyone who says "I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative" is a true jagoff. Uh oh.... Guilty. So if I am for marriage equality, pro-immigration, for legalized prostitution and marijuana, but want the long term capital gains tax indexed to inflation and as low as possible, want corporate tax rates lowered to be in line with OECD averages (but also want deductions slashed), devotedly free trade, and would like the federal budget brought back down to around 19 to 20% of GDP...is there a more fitting/less repugnant moniker you would like me to adapt? Or is it my views which you consider inherently jagoffish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcunning15 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 21 minutes ago, twa said: Equal at the start, middle or continuously? Equal under the law is a different critter. Everyone is equal some are just much more equal than others. Well we're all created equally so I guess at the start, and then life keeps making us unequal. Doe's that answer your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 55 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: <edit> People who use that phrase tend to think that their own views are all that matter Social justice is very hard. Not to make a mountain out of a molehill, but I think the whole case you make there is flimsy, and if you really feel that's something you've "learned over the years" and you actually give it serious credibility, then I'm being kind. The bolded excerpt above being the weakest piece by far and an indictment of where your head's at in general. I very much sympathize. I have been saying I have been radicalized by what the gop did this time around---while still very dissatisfied with the dems and finding the 3rd level players to be no answer yet--and you are worked up more than usual, too--all rational/appropriate imv to the situation. I manage it, but it's there ( i haz feelings and emojis too). I have been much more active again in regional politics (at a serious level) since trump started gaining huge ground and having a hunch about how this could go, and much more confrontational (including physically) in certain circumstances. I completely agree with that last line of your post, quoted, and flat out love who you are from the things I've read that you've done in your life (your family) and the things you stand for (going by your content here). I know you'll keep fighting for social justice with all you got. I'm a huge jagoff who has spent a great deal of time, money, and energy doing the same, and still find the means to be a huge jagoff--but only "at times", I hope. Kinda OT, and Imma stop, but still kinda fits the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 this is me, according to the test. I don;t think these do a very good job, in general. the terms are ALWAYS way too loaded. And if a brit test shows every american as being left leaning libertarian...what does that mean??? i would've thought that i was more authoritarian. and possibly more left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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