The political thread that helps us understand each other

[s0crates]

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it would fit this topic better:

 

In politics there is a spectrum of left-right positions and libertarian-authoritarian positions, but consider these four categories (with some extreme examples) as a rough sketch:

 

Authoritarian left: Marx, Stalin, Lenin

Authoritarian right: Hobbes, Hitler, Pinochet, (Trump?)

Libertarian left: Noam Chomsky, John Rawls, Bernie

Libertarian right: John Locke, Robert Nozick, Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, Gary Johnson

 

You can take an online quiz to see where you fit in this schema. Here are a couple:

 

https://www.politicalcompass.org

 

http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/political-spectrum-quiz.html

 

As I said earlier, I come out on the libertarian left, but I can usually find agreement with anybody in either of the libertarian categories much easier than I can anybody in either of the authoritarian categories. 

 

I would be interested in seeing other people's results if you're willing to share.

[Jumbo]

They did a pretty nice job on this for a fun piece. I'm rarely satisfied with surveys' limitations (including  many I've worked on) in phrasing/nuance, subjective and debatable points of reference in framing, and extracting properly representative results for accurate identification. Hard stuff. 

 

This is mine (as of tonight---I am prone to spastic swings in thought and demeanor)

 

 

 

 

I expect severe blowback for its resemblance to twa's

 

remember I did acid and mushrooms back in the day

[s0crates]

 

Here's mine:

[PokerPacker]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

They did a pretty nice job on this for a fun piece. I'm rarely satisfied with surveys' limitations (including  many I've worked on) in phrasing/nuance, subjective and debatable points of reference in framing, and extracting properly representative results for accurate identification. Hard stuff. 

 

This is mine (as of tonight---I am prone to spastic swings in thought and demeanor)

 

I expect severe blowback for its resemblance to twa's

 

remember I did acid and mushrooms back in the day

To be fair, twa's is pretty much the average.  Yours seems to have the average proportions but amplified.  Or, I guess by substitution, you're like twa but amplified.

 

Been awhile since I did one of these, but here it is.  I'm sure you are all shocked by the results.

 

[FrFan]

 Very intreresting poll. Before I took the survey I thought I would tend rather Lib right, I have the feeling  I screwed up on the porn question 

 

[Burgold]

There were a few questions I might answer differently on different days of the week though. I suspect this isn't too bad a representation.

[Captain Wiggles]

Just another ivory tower egg head intellectual elitist communist socialist liberal. Probably a result of that "liberal education" @crabbypatty mentioned in the Americas Great Divergence thread. I think I need to go to my safe space.

 

[skinsmarydu]

 

 

[Bang]

Dang, i closed mine, but it was almost the same as Clietas.. about a square and a half closer to the middle and about three squares higher.
sorry..  there should have been a question that said  "Do you think impulsively closing web pages is a sign of outside distraction"

 

Because my dog has to go out.

 

~Bang

[tshile]

I'm not a huge fan of these tests because my opinions change as minor details change. I don't have 1 over arching theme (liberal, libertarian, consevative, etc) that I use to evaluate my stance and these things always seem to depend on that (it seems like it's trying to pull that out of you, and the degree to which you lean that way)

 

You are a left moderate social libertarian.
Left: 3.43, Libertarian: 2.6

 

 

I'm pretty sure some here will take issue with that result. 

 

Basically I think the government has a role in regulating and advising us, but not in literally telling us how to live. I think capitalism produces the best and brightest, but cannot be left unchecked. Generally people should be allowed to live how they want, so long as they aren't hurting others. Etc.

[skinsmarydu]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

 

 

<b>My Political Views</b><br>I am a left moderate social libertarian<br>Left: 3.43, Libertarian: 2.6<br><img src="http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/grid/13x25.gif"><br><a href="http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/political-spectrum-quiz.html">Political Spectrum Quiz</a><br>

 

I'm pretty sure some here will take issue with that result. 

Copy & paste the chart, smartypants!

[tshile]

1 minute ago, skinsmarydu said:

Copy & paste the chart, smartypants!

Yeah that in and of itself is a test.

 

The code should work and would be better but I don't know how to make html code render on the forum

 

[skinsmarydu]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

Yeah that in and of itself is a test.

 

The code should work and would be better but I don't know how to make html code render on the forum

 

you don't have to do anything, just copy & paste.  The forum does the heavy lifting...

thanks, Dan.

[grego]

20 hours ago, twa said:

I am a libertarian leaning conservative, and support controlled immigration and the integration of them into our society(which allowing illegals prevents)

I see fetuses as people and think taking life should be a last resort(and discouraged by govt)  and have no problem with birth control(though believe giving my minor child it w/o my knowledge is subversive to parental rights)

Family is the basic structure of both my life and society imo and govt policy should strengthen it rather than divide(as we see with some welfare  restrictions)

Helping those in need is both a personal and govt obligation, yet feel enabling self support thru right to work and lowering barriers such as over regulation/licensing is preferable to aid programs w/o incentive to be self sufficient.

Education needs to focus on a strong foundation in the early years and efforts directed to empower students despite their circumstances.

I believe we can all rise beyond where we are.

The SSM marriage mess would have been best addressed by allowing legal unions for all if we truly believe in freedom of association.

 

I believe limited govt provides more opportunity though security,safety and freedoms require govt oversight to achieve.

Taxation is best limited to the minimum and govt waste held to a minimum.

 

Oh and politicians suck.  they are like dentists...a necessary evil.

 

for lack of time (and much more clarity than would be the case if it were my own words) i pretty much agree with this.

 

i feel like i identify with libertarians on many issues, lean conservative on abortion (last resort, but i dont like the way the left argues this issue) and liberal on issues like gay rights. coming from a somewhat messed up family situation, family is a big thing for me. people should be able to pass a test to be a parent (joking, but only a little). 

 

i'm usually against blanket statements but politicians do suck.

[grego]

11 hours ago, tshile said:

I feel like the left is great at identifying problems, but terrible at coming up with solutions. I think they mean well, but I think they take some wrong turns. They seem to think everyone/thing is a victim. They think everyone is equal and it leads to explanations for things that I just don't agree with.

 

I feel like the right is too attached to Christianity, and often tries to force morals derived from Christianity on us and I'm not cool with that. I feel like they cater to the wealthy, and are ok with it because they tend to not care about the people most likely to be hurt (mostly inner city people, I don't think it always and universally is about race, I honestly think they have something against cities at least in part.) The stuff around voting and gerrymandering really bothers me. Their inability to distinguis between Muslim and Islamic extremist bothers me.

(absolutely- this point about islamic extremists vs all muslims has been a problem for awhile now and the extremes on both sides get it wrong, imo)

 

11 hours ago, tshile said:

 

 I can't stand militant feminism. I hate how discussion on the right seems to always be lacking in intelligence, or how they seem to fear/deamonize intelligence (their constant criticism and dismissal of academics bothers the hell out of me.)

 

I often take the sissy stance of straddling the fence. I know that can seem annoying. I honestly feel like it's the best. Not always, but most times.

 

I think 'torture' is a loaded word. I'm cool with sleep deprivation, loud music etc, so long as there is a legit purpose (I don't believe in it as punishment, I realize that makes my stance tricky.) I'm cool with waterboarding when they have a high ranking terrorist member. I think the torture debate is a loaded one, there is undeniable proof the received important information and you have to do some gymnastics to deny it, or just not understand how intelligence gathering works at all. 

 

I want stricter immigration. Not a fan of refugees or immigrants from countries that are hotbeds of jihadists, or with no government structure to get reliable info on people from.

 

I want 'gun control' that actually works, not things that make people feel better, only burden responsible people, and don't actually solve anything.

 

Healthcare: I fail to see how anything other than single payer can work at this point.

 

When I hang out with liberals they call me a far right lunatic.

 

When I hang out with conservatives they call me a ****ing liberal. One tried to throw me out of his house for it. Not joking.

 

As far as I'm concerned, so long as the previous two statements remain true that means I'm doing it right.

 

I cant trust a single thing the mainstream media says anymore. They've become reckless in reporting.

 

 

 

 

i didnt quote this big block of text out of laziness but because i identify with all of these statements  

 

but can you explain the bolded part up top? gracias.

[JSSkinz]

[TheGoodBits]

 

[grego]

You are a center-left moderate social libertarian.
Left: 1.66, Libertarian: 1.85

 

If I could post it, right around tshile and jumbo.

 

[No Excuses]

[grego]

[Riggo-toni]

Libertarian right...uh, no surprise there.

[PeterMP]

I actually always have issues with things like this.

 

"Tighter regulation would have prevented the collapse of the lending industry."  Tighter is to vague to me.  Better regulation yes.

 

"If an unwed teen becomes pregnant, abortion may be a responsible choice."

 

Can something over all be unethical and still be responsible?  With respect to themselves it might be responsible.  I believe some people decide to have abortions, and it is the best decision that they are possible of making (giving the circumstances that they are in that they are not capable of coming to another (better) decision), but that doesn't make it moral.

 

[Springfield]

 

Just about where I thought I'd be.

[tshile]

55 minutes ago, grego said:

but can you explain the bolded part up top? gracias.

Absolutely, with the caveat that this thread is about explaining your opinions as opposed to debating them... I'll explain but if you disagree it's probably best we take it elsewhere

 

One of the things that seems, to me, to be a foundation of the "left" is that everyone gets the benefit of the doubt. People are always with good intentions. People are equal, thus people should be treated equally. When outcomes differ by much, it's more than likely a product of an unfair system. Fairness is a #1 priority, and so the left supports things that (to them) work towards improving fairness.

 

I don't know how anyone can walk around in life and think that this is the case.

 

People are not equal. Some people are smarter, some people are more honest, some people work harder, some people are just mean, the list goes on. One of the things that irks me about corporate environments and government environments is that there is a pay scale where everyone's pay is equal so long as their credentials (often simply how long you've been in the position and/or what level of education you achieved) and I just think that's garbage. I have not worked in a single environment where people are actually equal, yet they are treated that way by measurement. Two people are not equal simply because they are people.

 

Anyways, you see this mindset spill over into things like... minimum wage. They support people working at fast food restaurants making a 'living wage' (another loaded term to me) because they are people too, and are where they are because they are in some way a victim of the system; I, on the other hand, think working in fast food shouldn't be a career and does not deserve $15 an hour, something a certified clinical technician (fancy word for the people that help nurses in hospitals, not to demean their position they [so long as they are good at their job] work their asses off and take care of patients and some gross work like cleaning people up) is currently paid.

 

Furthermore, as I grow older, I find people deserve less and less of the benefit of the doubt. I've become more cynical about people's abilities, honesty, motives, and critical thinking skills.

 

I think it's easy to read that and think I hate the 'lower classes' (i hate using that phrase, but it seems the best, it's about income/net worth not the quality of the person) of society, or that I just don't care about them, or that I don't believe people can just have bad luck. None of that is true, I just fundamentally disagree with the left on the causes of the problem and the best solutions. I think having safety nets is important, but I think they should be safety nets that get people out of them as quickly as possible, and not long term ways of taking care of parts of our society.

 

When you think everyone is equal, when you extend the benefit of the doubt to everyone, differences in outcomes become 'unfair' and the reasons become at least in part due to the system. I just don't think that's true. Majority of people I've met are where they are because of decisions they've made. Yes, bad luck happens, it absolutely does, and there are plenty of situations where someone is a victim of the system (like the construction workers that lost their homes because the rest of society caused a huge recession and the construction industry was hit the hardest and fastest; they didn't do anything wrong, they were victims of circumstance and wrongdoings of others) but I don't think it explains the bulk of the issues we have.

[mrcunning15]

 

I guess i'm feeling extra salty this morning. I think if i take this quiz four years ago i'm probably more in the center, political ideology to me seems more based on cycles and mood of the country. So if the country is going left i'm more akin to go right and vis versa.

 

 I got into it yesterday with one of my co-workers who was complaining about how the left are hypocrites b/c they didn't protest for Obama's travel ban back in 2011 and how the violence is getting worse at these protests. Also he failed to mention the Quebac shooting hmm i wonder why that is in his little rant. So then i had to explain the differences between O's and DT's travel ban and that it was unfair to target the left for the violent protest from some crazy anarchist group when the tea party in their protests were just as crazy and violent. Also it's not like the Dem's are courting these anarchist groups like the Repb's did with the TEA party. Once i made those points after getting my irish up he did say "Well I know I'm biased but whatever I just don't see it that way"

 

But I guess as consolation he did state that he was pretty uneasy about Steve Bannon and what he represents. It just amazes me what people will put up with to support their team, we're all guilty of it to some degree, human nature is hard to fight and political leanings seem to be formed by familial considerations for the most part and i guess at what point do you break those bonds? I guess i would like to think if the Dem's brought forward a candidate so unhinged and unqualified that i would be able to walk away and not support said candidate but I don't know if that would be the case. Luckily for me that hasn't been the case in my voting lifetime.