Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Jumbo said: Not to make a mountain out of a molehill, but I think the whole case you make there is flimsy, and if you really feel that's something you've "learned over the years" and you actually give it serious credibility, then I'm being kind. The bolded excerpt above being the weakest piece by far and an indictment of where your head's at in general. I very much sympathize. I have been saying I have been radicalized by what the gop did this time around---while still very dissatisfied with the dems and finding the 3rd level players to be no answer yet--and you are worked up more than usual, too--all rational/appropriate imv to the situation. I manage it, but it's there ( i haz feelings and emojis too). I have been much more active again in regional politics (at a serious level) since trump started gaining huge ground and having a hunch about how this could go, and much more confrontational (including physically) in certain circumstances. I completely agree with that last line of your post, quoted, and flat out love who you are from the things I've read that you've done in your life (your family) and the things you stand for (going by your content here). I know you'll keep fighting for social justice with all you got. I'm a huge jagoff who has spent a great deal of time, money, and energy doing the same, and still find the means to be a huge jagoff--but only "at times", I hope. Kinda OT, and Imma stop, but still kinda fits the thread. Don't stop; this is interesting. In retrospect, that was phrased incredibly sloppily. What I mean is that people who say this are "social liberal" in their private lives but tend to be agnostic on whether that personal belief becomes policy. My anecdotal experience may be wrong, but I feel like 99 percent of the people that say this still vote Republican, and it's always someone like Scott Walker. In other words, they are determined that their fiscally conservative views become policy, but believe that as long as they are nice to the gay couple who runs the florist shop (in my hypo, this florist is my cousin), they are doing their part for social justice. (Weirdly, my gay florist cousin falls into this group. He is completely obsessed with welfare reform while constantly ****ing about he and his husband are treated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 in short, you've realized that not everyone prioritizes issues in the same manner that you do. earth shattering. lol actually, it probably does shatter the world of lkb just a bit. (lol again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Most of us are beholden to the issues that we hold most paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Here's mine: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 All heil Trump! Mein Führer für immer! Actually, the below chart is my official results. Me and Gandi are pals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, Major Harris said: in short, you've realized that not everyone prioritizes issues in the same manner that you do. earth shattering. lol At the risk of sounding like a namby-pamby bleeding heart liberal... I'd ask that you respect the fact that LKB is in a bad place right now. Like scared for his family kind of bad... @Lombardi's_kid_brotherSo you're saying that (in your experience) people that claim they are socially liberal but fiscally conservative tend to vote for the latter (the GOP)? In other words they are willingly undermining the social liberalism they claim to care for? I can see why that'd bother you... particularly given 1) the GOP hasn't necessarily been fiscally conservative recently, 2) and Bannon in the WH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 @Lombardi's_kid_brother Good stuff. I'm pretty simple-minded in my usage, and to further illuminate my point, think much different that what you were projecting to people who use that phrase. But I have no way to make a solid call on what most people who use it are thinking. To me, and I noted how much I think such labels are limited, it isto say I'm open-minded about adult behaviors that don't hurt self or others, and money-wise I hate waste, corruption, incompetence, and being too promiscuous in finding ways to spend.....both parties profit from and abuse the taxpayer equally enough imv to not fight over the diff, and it's one of my biggest issues (waste/inefficiency/incompetence in all things). I think we could have all the social safety nets and military we'd need, within generous reason, if the graft, inefficiency, and waste wasn't so amazeballs yuge. Perhaps you're restricting "conservative" in that phrase to mean "use tax $$ for conservative policies" where I'm using it as meaning "more responsible." I know other people who use it to mean as I do, also, but obviously can't speak to what "most people" who use it might mean. I had thought it meant for most folks that they prefer governing policies that are open-minded on non-harmful adult behavior and financially careful and responsible. Going this far into it , other than people with extreme (imv) religious beliefs, it's hard to see how that simplistic phrase wouldn't appeal to many people seeking an individually free but collectively prosperous, healthy, and stable society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 added: BTW, LKB, if you have a family member/friend caught up in this EA, I did not know. I don't have anyone that personally close, but have been affected by having it hitting a half dozen folks in two diff workplaces, to the very real harm of more than a few wonderful folks, and that's hard enough for my taste. My bests wishes are with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Riggo-toni said: Uh oh.... Guilty. So if I am for marriage equality, pro-immigration, for legalized prostitution and marijuana, but want the long term capital gains tax indexed to inflation and as low as possible, want corporate tax rates lowered to be in line with OECD averages (but also want deductions slashed), devotedly free trade, and would like the federal budget brought back down to around 19 to 20% of GDP...is there a more fitting/less repugnant moniker you would like me to adapt? Or is it my views which you consider inherently jagoffish? the thing is...terms are always loaded by context. most people wouldn't in theory be opposed to "socially liberal fiscally conservative" ... until they have seen it in the exact same usage, time after time after time. Put another way..... who could possibly be against: "Pro Life" OR be against "Pro Choice" or be against "pride" (until it is gay pride or racial pride, or pride in state's rights etc....) personally i consider myself VERY "Pro Life" and VERY MUCH "Choose Life" ... and in the absence of any other context would define my views on abortion that way. and i also have a very minor feeling of "Pro Choice", in the abstract. in my dreams, i would want every. single. woman, girl, or couple that is pregnant to be filled with the open-mouthed wonder and joy, .... the overwhelming feelings that i instantly felt, and shared with my wife when i found out i was going to be a father. It was truly the single greatest time in my life. I honestly didn't even notice the feelings of terror that SHOULD'VE been obvious... i should've been scared because i knew my whole happy life was going to be completely changed, and i knew that i was unemployed, with an unfinished dissertation, and no job prospects in sight. I only felt joy, Period. Really! But ... i KNOW that is utopian. I know that not everyone feels that. I know that many can't see the joy past the TERROR, or maybe just past the loneliness? or even maybe just past the uncertainty? or maybe even just past the recognition of upcoming inconvenience? anyway... whatever the sources... i know that some aren't immediately overwhelmed by the joy. at. all. in THOSE instances, in MY Utopian dreams, i would hope and pray that these people WOULD be overwhelmed by the feeling of community. A whole society there to support them in this tremendously important time in their lives (a fundamentally important time to the WHOLE society. a crucial time for the very existence of society) This a when when women, and many fathers, are feeling some combination of terror/fear/loneliness/inconvenience/uncertainty/vulnerability. My hope is that they would feel the CERTAINTY in their hearts that while their burden is heavy, we are all in it together, and they would KNOW that they will get the love and support that they need to help to carry them through this difficult time. Not the help that they deserve, or earned, but the help they need to see the true potential underlying wonderfulness of the situation they have found themselves in. But i Know that that doesn't happen, either. Soooo i wish and i pray that these people, who are probably in the most raw and vulnerable spiritual (spiritual, not religious) position that they will ever be in...i wish that these vulnerable souls KNEW that there was a safe place they could go, and that they trusted that there were people who understood their vulnerability and fear that they could talk to, and who could advise them, without judging them, on their best course of action....... so that is my internal wish. but then ... its when context comes into play. I know that not every prospective mother is filled with joy at her situation. I know that prospective mothers know that there is a ****ty support system out there for them (unless they are very fortunate in their PERSONAL situation). and i know that they are justifiably scared. So..... when i hear of a proposal to provide funding for pregnant women to get counseling on their situation, and to provide guidance on their difficult difficult choices... it SOUNDS like exactly what i want to happen (in my desperate worst case scenario) but then ... its when context comes into play. unfortunately, i know what happens. everyone knows what happens.... when we try to help pregnant women in this country. The devil with any legislation or program is in the details. And, the most extreme elements on the "Life" and "Choice" side sharpen their knives, and artfully make sure that the term "devil" is the appropriate term. On both sides, victory of ideology is paramount over all other concerns, including (especially?) over the needs of the patient. So mandatory counselling moves from a tender and wonderful idea, to an absolutely TERRIBLE idea. Even voluntary public-funded counselling gets so mired in ideological warfare..that it becomes suspect/borderline useless unworkable. and we have terrified women placed in a situation that is even more cold and terrifying than it has to be. and instead, my hopes and prayers and treasures have to go to people that indirectly help these women. The groups that care for children that are born out of these situations...... and for the women that emerge from these situations, and need love and care, whatever choice they made. context... it matters so much. and so... long winded looping back to the subject that WAS at hand.... context... it matters so much. i hear "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" and know that it usually is not a description (void of context) but instead, it is usually a defined term (like "states rights" or "pro life" or "pro choice" or "alt right" ...or... a bagazillion others... "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" when used by people defining themselves has almost always meant: Quote "i like to have sex, and i like porn --especially lesbian and "exotic" porn-- and i like to party (so i am socially liberal) and i wish you would stop bothering me about other peoples' problems (i am fiscally conservative)" Its paraphrasing, i know.... but usually fairly accurate in a broad sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 36 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: (Weirdly, my gay florist cousin falls into this group. He is completely obsessed with welfare reform while constantly ****ing about he and his husband are treated). I know a gay person that is a die hard republican. It's hard to figure out, but whatever. His choice. I think he just doesn't care about marriage, mainly just wants to be left alone on the subject, and he puts priority over almost everything else. I think he had a decent stent in the military (long ago, during the dont ask dont tell days) so he probably has become comfortable with just keeping the fact that he's gay to himself, and wants to keep it that way. He certainly doesn't talk about it. He'll use a phrase like "me and him" to reference him and his boyfriend going somewhere, so he's not trying to hide it, but he doesn't ever make the fact that he's gay a point of any conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 In my experience, most "social conservatives" are horribly profligate spenders (ie (P)rick Santorum, W, etc.), and that is the biggest reason I don't vote Republican anymore. I admit I don't really care all that much about social issues because the courts have (thankfully) by and large taken such issues out of the purview of legislators anyway. It's all grandstanding. Show me a guy who squawks on endlessly about family values, and I'll show you a politician who has no clue how to govern. (As a corollary, I've always said "show me a Christian Fundamentalist, and I'll show you someone who's never really studied the Old Testament.") But what do I know...apparently I am but a jagoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I haven't been personally impacted yet. If anything, I tend to make a killing in the short-term in the Trump years. Absolute chaos in the health insurance industry is good for me. Besides, I'm a white guy with a bunch of degrees. The system is built for me, and Trump promises to tilt it more in my favor. I do, however, have black children - all of whom have IEPs. I'm rather terrified what the education system is going to look like in four years under Devos. And the fact that people suddenly feel really comfortable to let their worst instincts out on race is not something that makes me very happy at all. I've said this before, but I was talking to a client last week. She is a Hispanic who always voted Republican. She has spent the last year finding out how many of friends truly and deeply hate Hispanics. She's alarmingly radical - to the point where I've covered my ears and said, "This is not something we can discuss" a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I'll point out that "socially liberal and fiscally conservative" is how my jackov older brother always used to define himself.... back in his wilder younger, pre-california years. it may have unfairly biased me against the term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, mcsluggo said: jackov Is that some weird Serbian variant of the type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Irish/Dutch/Scott/German/French a white boy stew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Took both tests. Somehow I feel like as an Independent, all of my liberal and conservative beliefs are all the ones that cause the most arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcdiscokid Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 About right for me I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Didnt think some of the questions made sense. Too many were leading to an answer that didnt seem to reflect my views. But, here's what I got. I just want to grab my gun and smoke pot on the way to my gay friends wedding. And my circle of friends, family colleagues etc, who OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Trump, share my stances on most issues. Bill Maher had a great monologue last week talking about how the majority of people agree with the Dems on most issues but hate the Dems. Why is that? I can tell you why I didnt vote for Hillary. I thought she was an untrustworthy self centered liar. I thought she was always willing to say one thing while she did another. And then cry about others not doing the same. Which is also some of the reasons I didnt vote for Trump. To me, she seems like the upper left corner (Left Authoritarian) of the graph. I support many left wing issues (in fact, I think if someone went to the archives there is a thread in the 2004 election cycle where I state the number of issues I was on the same side as Kerry, but voted for Bush). But there's alot of times that I cringe watching the Dem's deal with those issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Quote What's so funny about peace, love, and understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 20 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Is that some weird Serbian variant of the type? serbian... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 @twa you seem to be inching closer to my placement. stop that. i'll start posting Backstreet Boys vids in the fri nite thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 7 hours ago, PF Chang said: I like the idea of these tests, but it's hard to see the value when everyone ends up as a libertarian leftist. I see your meaning, and I had the same thought, but I can think of a couple ways this might be valuable: 1. We find that our disagreements aren't as deep as they seem. Sometimes we get so caught up on which team we're on and quibbling over particulars, we may forget that the vast majority of us believe in liberty, justice, and equal opportunity. Maybe we can bridge these imagined chasms that exist between us. I also appreciate the reminder that most right-leaning people aren't Nazis, and most left-leaning people aren't Stalinists. 2. When we find so many of us are philosophically similar, we might look to see if our government and elected representatives are enacting laws that reflect our common philosophy. I would argue they aren't. It might be interesting to compare Obama and Trump's results to ours, for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 It says that I am a non-interventionist(score of -7.68) as well as a cultural liberal(score of -4.89). Yet, I am a center-right social libertarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 The minor variations in the test results are actually much larger than they appear since most Anericans are rather centrist freedom lovers. Unlike Mary's, who I'm afraid is about to slip off into the abyss with much more Trumpisms. Jumbo I'll break out the Horton and Aaron Tippin to pull me back from danger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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