Ron Rivera = Jeff Fisher?

[CobraCommander]

I feel like the Marty's should shoulder some of the blame here too. I get that Rivera is ultimately in charge but why do those two get a pass? 

 

I think it's clear we need to move on from all three. 

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

I feel like the Marty's should shoulder some of the blame here too. I get that Rivera is ultimately in charge but why do those two get a pass? 

 

I think it's clear we need to move on from all three. 

I do give Mayhew a bit of credit for the 2022 trade down that netted us Dotson, Robinson, and Howell. That trade has been great value, which isn't something this FO usually does(create value).

 

But in general you're right. Entire FO needs a restructuring.

[profusion]

It might be a good comparison. Both coaches seem to favor the "tough slog" team that can always get to 7-9 (or 8-9) but can't get beyond it. That's probably the '85 Bears connection. They won through brute force, but that was a long time ago.

 

I dunno. Ron's heart hasn't seemed in it after the first season.

 

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, CobraCommander said:

I feel like the Marty's should shoulder some of the blame here too. I get that Rivera is ultimately in charge but why do those two get a pass? 

 

I think it's clear we need to move on from all three. 

The Marty's are Rivera's henchmen. They're here because Rivera handpicked them. Their successes and failures are Ron's responsibility.

[Captain James]

2 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

We better not hear that ever again.  

 

From now on from our hopefully new GM: "Tell me how we're going to contend in 2 years max"

[Commander Chaaarmnder]

15 hours ago, Searchingforaqb said:

 

 

So crazy McVay, Kyle S, Kevin O'Connell and LaFleur were all in the building and we ended up with Jay Gruden (who'll never be a Head Coach in the league again) and Rivera (probably the same). 

And Mike McDaniel Miami head coach

[Rufus T Firefly]

16 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

He built this team to be in the “In the Hunt” graphic come Nov/Dec. Not getting anything else unless he lucks into drafting a good QB and they have an outlier MVP season. We have years of data at this point. 

This has 100% been his strategy since he got here and it's always been completely transparent. 

 

But, you know, people celebrate getting to lose a playoff game with a team with a losing record. But years later, they don't understand why nothing has been built. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Rufus T Firefly

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Commander Chaaarmnder said:

And Mike McDaniel Miami head coach

Hilariously when he was being interviewed somewhere he was asked about his time in Washington in the context of the team being sold. He asked how much it was going for and was told $6B. 

His reply. 

 

”Wow, it’s worth THAT much and I couldn’t get free coffee??”

 

Apparently coaches had to pay for coffee??

[Rufus T Firefly]

39 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Hilariously when he was being interviewed somewhere he was asked about his time in Washington in the context of the team being sold. He asked how much it was going for and was told $6B. 

His reply. 

 

”Wow, it’s worth THAT much and I couldn’t get free coffee??”

 

Apparently coaches had to pay for coffee??

Did everyone hear the Nick Sundberg story? He said in the wives' section of the stadium there was no changing table in the bathroom, so they had to have another wife put her arm out with a towel over it and they'd change the baby on that. So they asked Tanya if they could get a changing table and she said it was too expensive. They asked how much and were told "about $1000." So one of the wives offered to pay herself and Tanya said "Nah, we're going to get a new stadium anyway."

[skinsmania123]

15 hours ago, wit33 said:

Name 5 non mediocre coaches lol

 

They ALL are. 
 

 

I think you are correct at least in this era.  I truly cannot name 5 non-mediocre coaches in this era. A good example of someone that is mediocre at this juncture is Belichick, whose regular season record, without his first ballot HOF QB Brady, is roughly 63-75 or .457.  With Brady he was 219-64 or .744.   The context can make a coach appear greater or less than what they actually are.  

 

If I had to say who was a great coach because he went to the SB with 3 different QB's, and none of those QB's are in the HOF today it would Joe Gibbs 1 hands down.  I know it was a different era, but he was consistently impressive.  HIs .683 winning percentage at the time he went into the HOF was only surpassed by Lombardi and Madden.  Madden only won 1 SB.  And Lombardi 5.  

 

Obviously, like I said a different era, but today, you need an excellent QB, as well as some elite players to get there. I mean really I see someone like Andy Reid as a decent coach, but who was he without Mahomes? One SB appearance I think with Philadelphia with McNabb?

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

14 hours ago, El Mexican said:

 

Both are mediocre, but Fisher's Titans were always exciting.

Lots of very good seasons there of 10+ wins.

 

Here in DC? Nada.

His teams were good in TN because he had a first rate GM landing him players like Eddie George and McNair.  Once he got to LA, he became Mr 7-9.

This illustrates the fundamental flaw in all of Snyder's hires.  The first action Jack Kent Cooke took was to hire the very best personnel guy he could find - Beathard, who put together the 72 Dolphins and was a scout on the SB Chiefs, and then he let Beathard pick the coach. Lord Farquaad never picked even a reputable GM, let alone searched for the most qualified. It was either an incompetent lackey who would subsequently bully a failing coach because he couldn't win with the **** sandwich of a roster he was given, or all personnel authority was handed over to an aging coach who would gamble away the farm to try and get one last hurrah.

Rivera's guys have actually done better in the draft than the other coaches given free reign,  though I think it's evident we should have taken Darrisaw and JOK instead of Jamin D and Cosmi as was debated at the time, and in retrospect all of us now wish we had taken either Herbert or Tua rather than Chase Young. Still, we are getting some good value on D in the mid and later rounds.  The question now is are these guys better scouts than they are GMs, that is, while finding solid players they fail to grasp the big picture of putting together the crucial elements of a team that will succeed?

[MartinC]

21 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Did everyone hear the Nick Sundberg story? He said in the wives' section of the stadium there was no changing table in the bathroom, so they had to have another wife put her arm out with a towel over it and they'd change the baby on that. So they asked Tanya if they could get a changing table and she said it was too expensive. They asked how much and were told "about $1000." So one of the wives offered to pay herself and Tanya said "Nah, we're going to get a new stadium anyway."

So so glad Snyder has gone. He was a cancer.

[RVAskins]

16 hours ago, wit33 said:

Name 5 non mediocre coaches lol

 

They ALL are. 
 

 

1. Joe Gibbs

2. Don Shula

3.George Halas

4. Andy Reid

5. Tom Landry

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

1. Joe Gibbs

2. Don Shula

3.George Halas

4. Andy Reid

5. Tom Landry

This only cements my point. 

[El Mexican]

3 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

The question now is are these guys better scouts than they are GMs, that is, while finding solid players they fail to grasp the big picture of putting together the crucial elements of a team that will succeed?

 

Ok, but don't we have an actual real-life GM in Mayhew now?

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

56 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

Ok, but don't we have an actual real-life GM in Mayhew now?

Yes - but what remains to be seen is whether he is GM worthy, which entails not just draft record, but seeing the big picture of putting a roster together. Casserly learned to be a good scout, but his tenure as GM both here and in Houston was dreadful.

[kingdaddy]

On 9/24/2023 at 8:43 PM, CjSuAvE22 said:

Rivera is mediocre has been mediocre and im extremely upset at how few 1st round picks hes been a part of that aren't impact players for this team. 

I'll double down and say that JDR is extremely mediocre too. Four 1st round defensive linemen including two very athletic ends that we don't move around or force mismatches with. I remember how LT and Reggie White moved around at all times, you couldn't gameplan against them cause they always moved around looking for a weak link to attack. I see no creativity in JDR, he's a fossil who's still stuck using his CD player while the rest of the league is on to Bluetooth. 

[BurgundyBooger]

The problem with old school, throwback coaches is their overemphasis on toughness and conventional simplicity. They preach the purity of arithmetics while every other coach is teaching algebra. IF YOU KNOW 2+2, YOU’RE GOOD TO GO!!!

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, BurgundyBooger said:

The problem with old school, throwback coaches is their overemphasis on toughness and conventional simplicity. They preach the purity of arithmetics while every other coach is teaching algebra. IF YOU KNOW 2+2, YOU’RE GOOD TO GO!!!

Yep. Old school meathead dinosaurs are being phased out. We're in the age of the nerdy hipster coach.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep. Old school meathead dinosaurs are being phased out. We're in the age of the nerdy hipster coach.

 

Maybe so.  I'd add Ron isn't just old school.  He's arguably the king poster child for it.  He's a walking talking acting stereotype for the old school types.  A defensive coach who has roster control and has taken defensive players in 5 out of the last 7 picks -- among his first-2nd rounders.

 

We got a top 3 defense.  And we got a young QB we want to succeed.  What can we do to help that young QB?  Lets again use the top picks on defense.  Maybe we can make our top 3 defense even better!    Let's give our young QB whose weakness is holding on to the ball -- a crap O line. 

 

Yes, this was the deepest TE draft in forever, a TE is often a QB's best friend -- but lets skip that position entirely and use multiple picks to get an edge to be the 11th player on the D line and is nonactive every week.

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

Jeff Fisher's record in his first 53 games (same amount of games Rivera has coached in Washington): 22-30-1

Rivera's record with Washington: 24-28-1

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe so.  I'd add Ron isn't just old school.  He's arguably the king poster child for it.  He's a walking talking acting stereotype for the old school types.  A defensive coach who has roster control and has taken defensive players in 5 out of the last 7 picks -- among his first-2nd rounders.

 

We got a top 3 defense.  And we got a young QB we want to succeed.  What can we do to help that young QB?  Lets again use the top picks on defense.  Maybe we can make our top 3 defense even better!    Let's give our young QB whose weakness is holding on to the ball -- a crap O line. 

 

Yes, this was the deepest TE draft in forever, a TE is often a QB's best friend -- but lets skip that position entirely and use multiple picks to get an edge to be the 11th player on the D line and is nonactive every week.

 

Well Ron will live or die , most likely die by his moves.  Hopefully Sam lasts all season in tact and at least does well enough not to be discarded by Ron’s replacement.  Yeah, new coach likely brings in his own qb but that Sam gets to compete against new guy.

[DWinzit]

When I see these Ron to Fisher comparisons I think of Norv Turner as being right in thee same conversation. 

[samy316]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

When I see these Ron to Fisher comparisons I think of Norv Turner as being right in thee same conversation. 

 

I don't think Norv is on that same level as Ron Rivera and/or Jeff Fisher.  Rivera & Fisher both got to SB's and were a couple of plays away from being SB winning coaches.  Getting to a SB carries a lot more clout than just being a good coach with some playoff wins.  Those SB appearances are literally the reason why Rivera & Fisher lasted so long in their positions, when they would've been fired a long time ago.

 

For the record, I would actually take a younger Norv Turner or someone similar over both Rivera & Fisher, because at the end of the day, offensive minds are more better suited to last as NFL HC's in today's game than in previous years.  Norv definitely had his issues, but I would take an offensive coordinator turned HC any day over an NFL DC that turns into a HC.

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, samy316 said:

 

I don't think Norv is on that same level as Ron Rivera and/or Jeff Fisher.  Rivera & Fisher both got to SB's and were a couple of plays away from being SB winning coaches.  Getting to a SB carries a lot more clout than just being a good coach with some playoff wins.  Those SB appearances are literally the reason why Rivera & Fisher lasted so long in their positions, when they would've been fired a long time ago.

 

For the record, I would actually take a younger Norv Turner or someone similar over both Rivera & Fisher, because at the end of the day, offensive minds are more better suited to last as NFL HC's in today's game than in previous years.  Norv definitely had his issues, but I would take an offensive coordinator turned HC any day over an NFL DC that turns into a HC.

If that is your mark then that's fine,

 

For me, all three are or were fairly respected 500 coaches that outplayed their record by lingering longer than deserved. They each experienced success at different levels.

 

No, Norv didn't bring his team to a loss in a SB. He was able to lose a Championship game along with numerous playoff games.

 

Every season they all had was ending each season with a loss. 

 

Nov's late 2000 tams were predicted to get to or win the SB a couple of years and they fell short each year. They had the best accumulation of talent in the NFL

 

All three brought franchises and their fans disappointment.