Ron Rivera = Jeff Fisher?

[50yrSKINSfan]

On 9/25/2023 at 1:48 AM, zCommander said:

 

You left out Mike McDaniel whoes team just scored 70 points on the Broncos. So many our assistant coaches from Shanny era are head coaches and one of them even won a SB. It hurts to even think about this.  

Yes and add to the lousy field coaching just watch Tua and Herbert play QB while we have CY bull rushing upfield to nowhere to get no one. After last Sunday I can’t wait to see Ron get canned. We have 3rd and 7 on their 20. They are rushing 4 and dropping 7. We have a running QB. So instead of splitting the 2 DTs and running for a 1st down we call a 20 yd pass by a rook QB, having a bad day, into double coverage into the end zone for an int. WTF are you kidding me.

[skinzplay]

RR Is the ultimate imposter 

[Skinsinparadise]

Dolphins which have an offense on steroids, not only traded for Tyreek hill but also used 66% of their picks in the last three years on offense. 

 

This team has used 48% of their picks on offense.   And just 28% of their top 2 round picks on offense.

 

Dolphins trade for Tyreek Hill and then still take another speed demon in Waddle with their first round pick.  Last draft they take Achane who is one of the fastest players in the draft.

 

They also take seriously their offensive line which hasn't been hot previously.

 

They are adopting a modern day approach to building a roster and emphasizing offense in an offense dominated league, and they have a step on the gas mindset to roster building.

 

We are doing it old school, in a cruise control fashion.    Both teams picked early in the draft the season Ron took over.  Ron skipped over Tua and Herbert.  And later basically said it wasn't because of Haskins-Dan but because he didn't like either player as the solution. He got into that in a Sheehan interview years ago.    The Dolphins took Tua.  And then went to town on offense.

 

Both teams now seem light years apart.  So when some tell me give Ron more time.  I think of the Dolphins who did it much more quickly.  Heck even the Giants got further in one year than Ron got to in 3.  Ron laments that QB is the difference when the Eagles rebuilt quicker after a down season and took Hurts during Ron's era here. 

 

And for good measure Ron dismantled a good O line that he inherited.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Redwards]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Dolphins which have an offense on steroids, not only traded for Tyreek hill but also used 66% of their picks in the last three years on offense. 

 

This team has used 48% of their picks on offense.   And just 28% of their top 2 round picks on offense.

 

Dolphins trade for Tyreek Hill and then still take another speed demon in Waddle with their first round pick.  Last draft they take Achane who is one of the fastest players in the draft.

 

They also take seriously their offensive line which hasn't been hot previously.

 

They are adopting a modern day approach to building a roster and emphasizing offense in an offense dominated league, and they have a step on the gas mindset to roster building.

 

We are doing it old school, in a cruise control fashion.    Both teams picked early in the draft the season Ron took over.  Ron skipped over Tua and Herbert.  And later basically said it wasn't because of Haskins-Dan but because he didn't like either player as the solution. He got into that in a Sheehan interview years ago.    The Dolphins took Tua.  And then went to town on offense.

 

Both teams now seem light years apart.  So when some tell me give Ron more time.  I think of the Dolphins who did it much more quickly.  Heck even the Giants got further in one year than Ron got to in 3.  Ron laments that QB is the difference when the Eagles rebuilt quicker after a down season and took Hurts during Ron's era here. 

 

And for good measure Ron dismantled a good O line that he inherited.

 

 

 

Well...there it is.  

 

Stone cold fact.

 

Ron and his FO need to be dismissed after this year, IMO.  Do it classy, but DO IT...and then let's start TRULY building something here.

[HTTSkins]

On 9/24/2023 at 7:43 PM, CjSuAvE22 said:

Rivera is mediocre has been mediocre and im extremely upset at how few 1st round picks hes been a part of that aren't impact players for this team. 

I lol around the league and say “ man that guy is suck a good draft pick” I haven’t said that since Scherff

[skinzplay]

The new ownership group is well aware if who and what RR is. Had we started 0-3, he'd be gone. We almost did, and could very well have.

[Searchingforaqb]

On 9/25/2023 at 4:07 PM, Riggo-toni said:

His teams were good in TN because he had a first rate GM landing him players like Eddie George and McNair.  Once he got to LA, he became Mr 7-9.

This illustrates the fundamental flaw in all of Snyder's hires.  The first action Jack Kent Cooke took was to hire the very best personnel guy he could find - Beathard, who put together the 72 Dolphins and was a scout on the SB Chiefs, and then he let Beathard pick the coach. Lord Farquaad never picked even a reputable GM, let alone searched for the most qualified. It was either an incompetent lackey who would subsequently bully a failing coach because he couldn't win with the **** sandwich of a roster he was given, or all personnel authority was handed over to an aging coach who would gamble away the farm to try and get one last hurrah.

Rivera's guys have actually done better in the draft than the other coaches given free reign,  though I think it's evident we should have taken Darrisaw and JOK instead of Jamin D and Cosmi as was debated at the time, and in retrospect all of us now wish we had taken either Herbert or Tua rather than Chase Young. Still, we are getting some good value on D in the mid and later rounds.  The question now is are these guys better scouts than they are GMs, that is, while finding solid players they fail to grasp the big picture of putting together the crucial elements of a team that will succeed?

Never mind not picking a good GM, the years with Bruce (except for McCloughan), the team didn't really even have a proper GM, Allen was the president if I recall? 

 

Unforgivable 

[FuriousD]

2 hours ago, Redwards said:

Well...there it is.  

 

Stone cold fact.

 

Ron and his FO need to be dismissed after this year, IMO.  Do it classy, but DO IT...and then let's start TRULY building something here.

Here’s the thing though..

Every offseason all the teams put together a draft board / wish list comprised of thousands of data points marinated in eyeballs & gut feelings.

 

Then on draft day they employ all that scientific methodology and when it’s their turn, send in the name of the player at the top of the <remaining> list.  Some here might argue there’s more to it than that but, at the end of the day, it boils down to this. 
 

Stay true to your board is the mantra on the day. 

What’s at the “top” of the list at any given time is a crapshoot. It’s why we remind ourselves every offseason that the draft is a crapshoot.

 

So, what’s to say the Dolphins 66% isn’t just the way things shook out for them?  Not hard to imagine there were hots for defensive players taken before their picks. 
 

Just sayin… 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, FuriousD said:

Here’s the thing though..

Every offseason all the teams put together a draft board / wish list comprised of thousands of data points marinated in eyeballs & gut feelings.

 

Then on draft day they employ all that scientific methodology and when it’s their turn, send in the name of the player at the top of the <remaining> list.  Some here might argue there’s more to it than that but, at the end of the day, it boils down to this. 
 

Stay true to your board is the mantra on the day. 

What’s at the “top” of the list at any given time is a crapshoot. It’s why we remind ourselves every offseason that the draft is a crapshoot.

 

So, what’s to say the Dolphins 66% isn’t just the way things shook out for them?  Not hard to imagine there were hots for defensive players taken before their picks. 
 

Just sayin… 

 

Sounds good.  But Keim went over their thinking before every pick this past draft.  Here are the positions they are thinking.  I posted it at the time.  @UK Skins in particular remembers that.  They followed it to a tee.

 

Heck the previous year it was said to death they were zeroing in a WR and that's exacly what they did and they wanted a RB early too.  The season before that it was LB, LB, LB.  And guess what they took a LB even though plenty thought it was a reach.

 

This clearly isn't a FO that just rolls with whatever PBA falls to their spot.  Some like to cite them ignoring the O line early in the last draft is almost a badge of honor because it proves how they go BPA.  But far from it IMO.  They in round 1 and 2 zeroed in on 2 spots, they just happened to take the 2nd spot each time.  Then switched to O line to I gather make up for it.   

 

And as for blowing off the O line early that seems kind of how Ron rolls in general as we've pointed out in other threads versus driven by a BPA take. Via his other actions, the O line clearly isn't a position he values as much as others.

 

I think among other things Ron who as we know at times likes to talk and if anything be too revealing -- didn't help himself a year or so ago when explaining to Sheehan for why he didn't like Herbert or Tua in that draft.    I gave him an out on that previously.  But if he's going to explain why he didn't dig either one then its out for me on giving him a pass on the QB spot.  

 

The Eagles loved Jalen Hurts.  I read a long article about how he was scouted heavily and that FO and especially their HC fell in love with him.  Rivera clearly did not.  That's fine.  But it comes off pathetic when he laments that the other NFC East teams are better becasuse of "QB" last year when one of those QBs were actually taken right under his nose.

 

As for the Dolphins just rolling with 66% on offense because that's just how BPA might have rolled for them.  Knowing a little about how that regime thinks, I subscribe to the local papers that cover them, I seriously doubt that's why.   They among other teams believe that this is an offense driven league these days and speed kills.  They keep adding to that philosophy.

 

Heck Achane who they took in the last draft -- a participant on the board's draft questioned why I likewise took that same player in the board's mock draft for the Dolphins that we did predraft.  I explained he just fit their philosophy and style.  Ironically that's the exact same player they ended up taking.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[UK Skins]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sounds good.  But Keim went over their thinking before every pick this past draft.  Here are the positions they are thinking.  I posted it at the time.  @UK Skins in particular remembers that.  They followed it to a tee.

 

 

That's absolutely correct. Because I don't watch college football I follow the draft threads here like crazy and I remember exactly that. SIP posted Keim's comments every day before the draft and every day they were true. We even talked at the time as to how we were telegraphing our picks and what a bad idea that was.

[Redwards]

14 hours ago, FuriousD said:

Here’s the thing though..

Every offseason all the teams put together a draft board / wish list comprised of thousands of data points marinated in eyeballs & gut feelings.

 

Then on draft day they employ all that scientific methodology and when it’s their turn, send in the name of the player at the top of the <remaining> list.  Some here might argue there’s more to it than that but, at the end of the day, it boils down to this. 
 

Stay true to your board is the mantra on the day. 

What’s at the “top” of the list at any given time is a crapshoot. It’s why we remind ourselves every offseason that the draft is a crapshoot.

 

So, what’s to say the Dolphins 66% isn’t just the way things shook out for them?  Not hard to imagine there were hots for defensive players taken before their picks. 
 

Just sayin… 

When it comes to QB, damn near every previous regime and organization were a massive failure.  We drafted Sammy Baugh.  That's the last franchise QB this organization drafted.  That's not being "unlucky" though.  Thats a screaming example of organizational failure.  

 

Ron was supposed to remedy this.  Ron is head of all of the current player picking.  He makes final choice.  He's paid to be better than the rest of the league.  It's his job to make the correct decisions at the game's most pivotal spot.  He's failed again and again.  

 

As far as the O line goes: he dismantled a good one and replaced them with "position flexible" players instead of truly talented ones at the respective position.  He is in Year 4, where WE SHOULD BE THE MEASURING STICK FOR OTHER UP-AND-COMING TEAMS.  We're still trying to use the game's elite to measure our progress.  We should be the elite by now.  

 

It's time for a serious change.  What do we want to accomplish with Ron?  Does anyone with a true football I.Q. actually believe he is talented enough as a coach and GM to make us into a year-in and year-out contender?  Much less a Super Bowl champion?  His best is going to be a playoff appearance every now and then when things break right during the season. 

 

He's had enough rope to hang himself with.  He has not made this team markedly better than in Year 1.   Sure, players have been brought in and rearranged, but the team is still largely the same.  Meanwhile, we get lapped by the Eagles, Giants, Cowboys, Dolphins, etc. of the league.  

 

I can't speak (and never would) for anyone else, but the lack of results under Ron is very much in line with my expectations when he was hired, and those expectations were cemented when he decided to go with Hurney and Mayhew - two underwhelming and non-creative people at their respective jobs.  Not trash, but certainly not the upper echelon of FO minds in the league. 

Ron has been a coach for a long time and his record speaks for itself: he's as mediocre as it gets as a coach and ditto for a personnel mind.  And, IMHO, a true housecleaning absolutely needs to be in order this offseason if this organization is ever going to legitimately entertain ideas of becoming one like the Eagles instead of keeping in being a more often than not .500 team that just may have a good season if everything breaks just right.  

 

I have to believe Harris and his ownership group see Ron for what he is.  Allow him to retire in a classy fashion, thank him publicly for being a good person in a bad organization, and get on with hiring people who can turn us into the Dolphins, Eagles, Chiefs, Bills.

15 hours ago, skinzplay said:

The new ownership group is well aware if who and what RR is. Had we started 0-3, he'd be gone. We almost did, and could very well have.

I certainly hope this is the case. 

 

If Ron and his FO are brought back then this team will always be behind in our division.  Don't even entertain title hopes outside an extremely fluke season.  

Edited September 27, 2023 by Redwards

[dunfer]

Were 5 good to decent players away from being a good bet every week. A couple good ol, lbs and a te. One focused off season. Were a little too rich in dl and wr to make an impact.

 

Weve been ****ing about coaching and FOs for decades...they dont play. They just have to build a complete team

[skinfan2k]

if he doesnt develop sam howell, he needs to be fired.  If we go to Brisket for any other reason outside of injury, fire him for that.  Also, failure to invest 6 first rounders/2nd rounders in a defense that still can't stop elite qbs. 

[MartinC]

19 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

if he doesnt develop sam howell, he needs to be fired.  If we go to Brisket for any other reason outside of injury, fire him for that.  Also, failure to invest 6 first rounders/2nd rounders in a defense that still can't stop elite qbs. 

Unless we win double digits, secure a playoff place and at a minimum are competitive in that playoff game - he’s toast. Even if Howell continues to develop its long odds Ron is back next season as HC and defacto GM.

[88Comrade2000]

If Josh wants to move forward; he moves on from Ron and co.  You stay the course,  you won’t be competing against the better teams and compete for championships. Yeah, you may beat a good team once in a while but you will be nothing but mediocre.

 

Unless Sam takes us to the playoffs, the next guy will likely bring in his own qb. I’ve said before that if Sam is to have a nfl career, it’s likely with another team. The situation here isn’t conducive for him to develop into that long term starter. His head coach likely won’t be here in 24 and the new regime will want their own qb.

[SkinsFTW]

This is an insult to Jeff Fisher. He took the Titans to the playoffs 6 of 10 seasons at one point Then he sucked with the Rams.

 

Meanwhile RR has been 8-8, 7-9 or worse almost all of his seasons coaching except for 3 outliers where the Panthers won 11 or more.

 

When somebody calls a coach a Jeff Fisher clone they really mean Ron Rivera 

[Fan since a Fetus]

Weird, I thought he was more comparable to Lovie Smith. He wins here and there, but mostly is a below average head coach. So I looked up their records:

 

Lovie Smith - 92 - 100 - 1

Ron Rivera - 100 - 91 - 2

 

As of this past game, they have been head coaches for the exact same amount of games. 
 

Neither one is the guy you want to be your long term HC, but they can get your team pointed in the proper direction.

[88Comrade2000]

33 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

Weird, I thought he was more comparable to Lovie Smith. He wins here and there, but mostly is a below average head coach. So I looked up their records:

 

Lovie Smith - 92 - 100 - 1

Ron Rivera - 100 - 91 - 2

 

As of this past game, they have been head coaches for the exact same amount of games. 
 

Neither one is the guy you want to be your long term HC, but they can get your team pointed in the proper direction.

Chicago hasn’t done jack post Lovie.

[duffy]

On 9/24/2023 at 8:49 PM, Mr. Sinister said:

 

We really got sold on a 5 year plan again. 

[MartinC]

There are a total of 39 coaches in NFL history with a won loss record of over .600. 

 

Being plus/minus .500 over your career is the norm. 

 

Put another way though there are 10 current coaches with records over .600. I've not got time to really dig into this but I would guess that most of those could be/are paired with an elite QB and that its having an elite QB that drives the deviation from hovering around .500.

 

Ron is a decent coach - around the NFL average on his career. Its his failure to address the QB position as the defacto GM which will likely get him fired as the HC (even if Sam develops its probably too late to save Ron).

[Fan since a Fetus]

8 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Chicago hasn’t done jack post Lovie.

im not understanding your point here. Tampa Bay has done well post Lovie 🤷‍♂️

[Warhead36]

8 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Chicago hasn’t done jack post Lovie.

And Carolina has been much worse post Rivera.

[samy316]

32 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

And Carolina has been much worse post Rivera.

 

Cam Newton falling off has just as much to do with Carolina's struggles post-Rivera than Rivera's absence by itself.  Once Carolina finds it's franchise QB (who knows if Bryce Young is that guy), then they will prosper.  Cam Newton is responsible for Rivera being considered a decent coach around NFL circles.

[SkinsFTW]

13 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

And Carolina has been much worse post Rivera.

 

They haven't been much worse, and Washington hasn't been much better, since he coached in Carolina.

 

If he was a QB he'd be Jason Campbell, if he was a WR he'd be James Thrash, he's just totally mediocre. He takes average talent and gets average results. He takes exceptiobal talent and gets average results as well. 

 

And during games he stands there the entire game with the same expression as the Redskins helmet emblem. He basically replaced it lol.

[Searchingforaqb]

I may have been harsh on Fisher with this 

 

Rivera is a complete dud

 

He needs to be removed immediately