Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[CapsSkins]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I can see that.  You here are advancing really every theory being debated here.  Trading up in the draft.  Taking one of the bigger FA's on the market at QB, taking a more modest FA on the market at QB.    Only thing you don't mention is trading for a QB.

 

My guess is eveything is on the table and they aren't ruling anything out based on theory.  All depends on what's on the menu. 

 

Then let me jump in there, too: if Mariota is available then you consider that too.

 

I am advancing a lot of possibilities because like you said, it all depends what's on the menu. But it's not as though I'm not taking a stand on anything.

 

My firm predictions: Heinicke will be re-signed and have a shot to compete for the starting job in the offseason. Allen will be re-signed and have a shot to compete for the starting job in the offseason. We will not make a splashy QB acquisition, meaning no high-priced trade target like Stafford or RG3-type trade-up for one of the top prospects. Alex will not be on the roster at his current cap hit.

 

The rest is uncertain.

[Riggo'sRangers]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Then let me jump in there, too: if Mariota is available then you consider that too.

 

I am advancing a lot of possibilities because like you said, it all depends what's on the menu. But it's not as though I'm not taking a stand on anything.

 

My firm predictions: Heinicke will be re-signed and have a shot to compete for the starting job in the offseason. Allen will be re-signed and have a shot to compete for the starting job in the offseason. We will not make a splashy QB acquisition, meaning no high-priced trade target like Stafford or RG3-type trade-up for one of the top prospects. Alex will not be on the roster at his current cap hit.

 

The rest is uncertain.

Alex just needs to be gone for his own health reasons & god bless him going forward.  The cap money saved will be a benefit as well, but it's just too much to ask of him now.  Amazing what he was able to do this year & will be remembered for that, but we have to move forward. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

Then let me jump in there, too: if Mariota is available then you consider that too.

 

 

I could see that.

 

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

 

I am advancing a lot of possibilities because like you said, it all depends what's on the menu. But it's not as though I'm not taking a stand on anything.

 

 

Sure, I know you gave specifics.  I  was just doubling down that i think everything is likely on the table.  You agree but seem to be ruling one thing out which is a splashy QB acquisition.  I am not ruling that out.  Not saying though i am right or wrong, I am just guessing and trying to read the tea leaves.

 

I get your angle which is if they want a 3 way competition then they might not be thinking a big time veteran.  And I actually agree with you that its likely the predominant thought right now from Rivera.  My disagreement is if an interesting QB enters the market, I think they'd consider it.  Right now, I don't think any intriguing possibility exists.  But if something arises my guess is that player might be on the table. 

 

[CapsSkins]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I could see that.

 

 

Sure, I know you gave specifics.  I  was just doubling down that i think everything is likely on the table.  You agree but seem to be ruling one thing out which is a splashy QB acquisition.  I am not ruling that out.  Not saying though i am right or wrong, I am just guessing and trying to read the tea leaves.

 

I get your angle which is if they want a 3 way competition then they might not be thinking a big time veteran.  And I actually agree with you that its likely the predominant thought right now from Rivera.  My disagreement is if an interesting QB enters the market, I think they'd consider it.  Right now, I don't think any intriguing possibility exists.  But if something arises my guess is that player might be on the table. 

 

 

Yeah I got self-conscious about my caveats lol and thus didn't mention that all of this goes out the window if Dak hits FA. Then you really think about the value of locking up QB for the next 10 years and being done with it. But I doubt Dallas lets him get away, and I don't see anyone else who fits that description in terms of flashy possibility. I definitely don't think they're interested in paying the farm for Watson.

 

The splashy move-up for a QB, I see where you're coming from. In this or the draft thread I mentioned trading up for Lance if he falls to 13, but not trading up to 5 or 6. So it also depends how you define "splashy" move.

 

Lastly, I haven't mentioned this elsewhere but I do think Heinicke and Allen are kind of redundant, so you probably don't keep both of them in 2022 but you maybe use 2021 to figure out which one you want. That is to say, depending on how other moves shake out I could see Allen getting cut (or perhaps Taylor) depending on how the offseason battle goes. So maybe the QB room looks like Heinicke-Tyrod-Lance. Or maybe it's Heinicke-Allen-Tyrod. Or Mariota-Heinicke-Montez. Lots of possibilities  

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Yeah I got self-conscious about my caveats lol and thus didn't mention that all of this goes out the window if Dak hits FA. Then you really think about the value of locking up QB for the next 10 years and being done with it. But I doubt Dallas lets him get away, and I don't see anyone else who fits that description in terms of flashy possibility. I definitely don't think they're interested in paying the farm for Watson.

 

The splashy move-up for a QB, I see where you're coming from. In this or the draft thread I mentioned trading up for Lance if he falls to 13, but not trading up to 5 or 6. So it also depends how you define "splashy" move.

 

Lastly, I haven't mentioned this elsewhere but I do think Heinicke and Allen are kind of redundant, so you probably don't keep both of them in 2022 but you maybe use 2021 to figure out which one you want. That is to say, depending on how other moves shake out I could see Allen getting cut (or perhaps Taylor) depending on how the offseason battle goes. So maybe the QB room looks like Heinicke-Tyrod-Lance. Or maybe it's Heinicke-Allen-Tyrod. Or Mariota-Heinicke-Montez. Lots of possibilities  

 

I think the wildcard here is we don't know if he or Kyle or the new GM (if they hire one) loves any potential prospective QB.  We all get locked into guys we like.   But obviously they have their own potential man crushes. 

 

Maybe its Mac Jones?  Maybe Kyle Smith sees Lance as the next Lamar Jackson?  Maybe they see Stafford the way Arians man crushes on him.  Or maybe they don't?  

 

I know I am stating the obvious but my point is if one of the guys we all debate here is someone they are enamored with -- they might try to move mountains to get that guy.

 

But if I had to guess it now?  I'd guess its a medium level FA like a Tyrod Taylor along with Allen/Heinicke.  

Edited January 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Number 44]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Tyler

Taylor.

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think the wildcard here is we don't know if he or Kyle or if there is a new GM loves any potential prospect.  We all get locked into guys we like.   But obviously they have their own potential man crushes. 

 

Maybe its Mac Jones?  Maybe Kyle Smith sees Lance as the next Lamar Jackson?  Maybe they see Stafford the way Arians man crushes on him.  Or maybe they don't?  

 

I know I am stating the obvious but my point is if one of the guys we all debate here is someone they are enamored with -- they might try to move mountains to get that guy.

 

But if I had to guess it now?  I'd guess its a medium level FA like a Tyrod Taylor along with Allen/Heinicke.  

 

I agree 100% with all of this. I'm just happy to be on the ride with guys I trust making the decisions: Ron and Kyle. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

I agree 100% with all of this. I'm just happy to be on the ride with guys I trust making the decisions: Ron and Kyle. 

 

Could the wagon stop soon though, to let Kyle off ?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

Taylor.

 

Thanks I know, I think I got it right most of the time, but on occasion I slip. 😀

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

This is not personal (felt compelled to add this as many seem a bit on edge and are taking things more personal than normal - if not great) but I could not disagree more with pretty much everything in your post. He would NOT provide any stability at QB. He is just this side of useless as a QB. Did you watch any of NEs games? Or the end of his time in Car? Yea, he started off nice with NE for a few games. But once people figured him out they shut him down and he turned into a TO machine. I would hope no one would hold up how he did against the Jets. We can get that from a rookie who at least has a chance of developing. He can't throw and he is slowing down as a runner significantly. And every QB coming in here would feel like they were looking over their shoulder. He is not at all familiar with the offence. He may know some parts of it but this is Scott's offence not his dads. Not sure ther is anything that suggests he could produce in this offence, especially with limited tools - ie he can't throw accurately and feet are slowing down. 

 

Most importantly he takes up a roster spot from someone who at least has the potential of being developed. And no, I do not believe Ron R trusts Cam at QB He had a chance to bring him in last year for cheap knowing we needed a QB. Ok, you could maybe argue he was looking for a starting role, something Ron could not promise him. But from what I read he was not interested at all, for any price. I lived in NC and i can tell you Ron and Cam butted heads a lot, not jsut when he was younger but later too. And not just normal back and forth. Ron got plenty pissed at his childish antics (not sure he likes him but I do not know either personally so in fairness I would not know for sure either way). 

 

I do NOT see Cam fitting into or helping this culture. To me he would be a significant step backwards and I would be very disappointed in Ron if he brought Cam in. Honestly I would roll with the 3 we have (assuming Alex is gone - 4 if he stays) or replace S Montez) while still looking for a franchise QB. I do not think our long term solution is on the team but we have enough to continue growing while we look. Brining in Cam would feel like a desperation move when it's not needed. 

No problem, I'm not offended by your opinion and I appreciate your thoughts. I don't want Cam Newton here, I'd take Fitzmagic over him all day long. However, coupled with Adam Schefters report and based on what I read and see, I believe RR is going to at least have serious discussions about bringing Cam in here as insurance. RR had a very tough year at the QB position and I'm sure he's gonna do everything he can to make sure this year doesn't repeat itself. Getting rid of Dwayne makes sure of that. I'm simply saying, don't underestimate the history RR has with Cam, how inexpensive he will be and the things he could still offer to this team. If the staff really wants to give Heinicke and Allen a shot then a veteran QB as insurance makes sense, especially one that won't cost draft picks and won't break the bank. Realistically, I don't think Cam comes here as a backup, but if he's willing to do that, especially being told that he'd have a role as a wildcat QB in the redzone, I can absolutely see it happening whether any of us like it or not. We will find out soon enough....

By the way, the Patriots staff, particularly Josh McDaniels the OC,  is on record as calling Cam a true professional and one of the hardest workers on the team. This kind of stuff is what RR is all about. 

I am not advocating we get Cam, but I am trying to be reasonable about what RR may do and how he could justify bringing Newton here as far as what positives he would bring. Rolling with Heinicke and Allen would be risky just based on both of their injury histories and RR can't roll a 4th QB out there for the playoffs again. He needs someone more durable who knows the league....Cam would be an insurance policy.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

No problem, I'm not offended by your opinion and I appreciate your thoughts. I don't want Cam Newton here, I'd take Fitzmagic over him all day long. However, coupled with Adam Schefters report and based on what I read and see, I believe RR is going to at least have serious discussions about bringing Cam in here as insurance. RR had a very tough year at the QB position and I'm sure he's gonna do everything he can to make sure this year doesn't repeat itself. Getting rid of Dwayne makes sure of that. I'm simply saying, don't underestimate the history RR has with Cam, how inexpensive he will be and the things he could still offer to this team. If the staff really wants to give Heinicke and Allen a shot then a veteran QB as insurance makes sense, especially one that won't cost draft picks and won't break the bank. Realistically, I don't think Cam comes here as a backup, but if he's willing to do that, especially being told that he'd have a role as a wildcat QB in the redzone, I can absolutely see it happening whether any of us like it or not. We will find out soon enough....

By the way, the Patriots staff, particularly Josh McDaniels the OC,  is on record as calling Cam a true professional and one of the hardest workers on the team. This kind of stuff is what RR is all about. 

I am not advocating we get Cam, but I am trying to be reasonable about what RR may do and how he could justify bringing Newton here as far as what positives he would bring. Rolling with Heinicke and Allen would be risky just based on both of their injury histories and RR can't roll a 4th QB out there for the playoffs again. He needs someone more durable who knows the league....Cam would be an insurance policy.

 

 

Cam can't really be an insurance policy given his injury history, too.

 

As much as I understand and respect their relationship, it just doesn't make sense.  Cam's best days are behind him, we need a QB with some upside.  Allen and Heinicke are those guys.  Smith, as much as I love him and respect him, is not.  I hope he rides off into the sunset with his head held high.

 

I think the only upside in regards to Cam is that he'd come cheap.  And maybe you catch some former glory lightning in a bottle for a year, but that's not a long term plan.

 

Fitzmagic is slightly more appealing because he can turn in some amazing games, he can also turn in some real ****ty ones, too.  At least he's relatively healthy, IIRC.  If you're going to get a 3rd QB in addition to Allen and Heinicke, both who seem to have durability issues and injury histories, the 3rd guy better be solid.

[kingdaddy]

10 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Cam can't really be an insurance policy given his injury history, too.

 

As much as I understand and respect their relationship, it just doesn't make sense.  Cam's best days are behind him, we need a QB with some upside.  Allen and Heinicke are those guys.  Smith, as much as I love him and respect him, is not.  I hope he rides off into the sunset with his head held high.

 

I think the only upside in regards to Cam is that he'd come cheap.  And maybe you catch some former glory lightning in a bottle for a year, but that's not a long term plan.

 

Fitzmagic is slightly more appealing because he can turn in some amazing games, he can also turn in some real ****ty ones, too.  At least he's relatively healthy, IIRC.  If you're going to get a 3rd QB in addition to Allen and Heinicke, both who seem to have durability issues and injury histories, the 3rd guy better be solid.

I read somewhere where RR really values QB's who can run....To me that would be Heinicke, Allen and who else that's available? Is there one of these in the draft? 

When you put QB's out there and ask them to run some then you are asking for them to get hurt at some point...(Dak Prescott, Wentz, Kyle Allen, Heinicke)....knowing this, you'll need to have plans B and C ready....maybe even plan D. It's gonna be really interesting to see what direction RR goes in.....I just pray that Alex retires so he can stay healthy. 

[goskins10]

9 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I read somewhere where RR really values QB's who can run....To me that would be Heinicke, Allen and who else that's available? Is there one of these in the draft? 

When you put QB's out there and ask them to run some then you are asking for them to get hurt at some point...(Dak Prescott, Wentz, Kyle Allen, Heinicke)....knowing this, you'll need to have plans B and C ready....maybe even plan D. It's gonna be really interesting to see what direction RR goes in.....I just pray that Alex retires so he can stay healthy. 

 

Just responding to the last part - here I 100% agree. Love the Alex story. Glad he was able to return and take a team to the POs. But it's time he move into coaching - and that's where he needs to be. Not sure how far he can go in coaching, but QBs coach at least. And from there you never know. He certainly inspires players to be great. They just want to play for him. That is a huge part of being a HC. Not saying he can be a HC, jsut saying he has at least some of the intangibles.

 

Man was it rough watching him hobble around against Carolina. I felt for him. I hope he just says enough is enough, let me move to the sidelines. 

[KillBill26]

2 hours ago, Number 44 said:

Taylor.

Imagine Tyler and kurt cousins as your 1-2 punch!!

[TheShredder]

Alex said 'the calf issue had nothing to do with the limb salvage'.  Literally the guy is playing with 1.75 legs.  I used to like Alex's under the radar scrambles and those days are over.  I'm now seeing an ultimatum for him to make a decision in an organizational time frame that by all financial considerations means they've got to be leaning towards his release or retirement announcement.  One or the other and sooner not later. 

 

As far as a QB upgrade, it's coming.  Which route?  I don't think they know because they don't have all the option available.  If memories serve me here then this is an ongoing lead up to the draft.  They want to win now, so there's no reason to use a high draft pick for a profiled rookie.  They can win the division and playoff games with improvements at WR, OL, and another TE not named Sprinkle.  

[kingdaddy]

15 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Alex said 'the calf issue had nothing to do with the limb salvage'.  Literally the guy is playing with 1.75 legs.  I used to like Alex's under the radar scrambles and those days are over.  I'm now seeing an ultimatum for him to make a decision in an organizational time frame that by all financial considerations means they've got to be leaning towards his release or retirement announcement.  One or the other and sooner not later. 

 

As far as a QB upgrade, it's coming.  Which route?  I don't think they know because they don't have all the option available.  If memories serve me here then this is an ongoing lead up to the draft.  They want to win now, so there's no reason to use a high draft pick for a profiled rookie.  They can win the division and playoff games with improvements at WR, OL, and another TE not named Sprinkle.  

Adding another TE would be huge..I wouldnt mind seeing us take one in round 2, definitely by round 3 with one of those 2 picks. 

[TheShredder]

3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Adding another TE would be huge..I wouldnt mind seeing us take one in round 2, definitely by round 3 with one of those 2 picks. 

That would need to be an anomaly TE in the second round.  I'd say you can get a complementary TE later in the draft or FA, but that second 3rd rounder is possible if they have someone they like. 

[DefinitelyMaybe]

I’m not convinced it’s going to happen, but could somebody explain to me how our salary cap is affected if Smith retires?

[Spaceman Spiff]

11 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I read somewhere where RR really values QB's who can run....To me that would be Heinicke, Allen and who else that's available? Is there one of these in the draft? 

When you put QB's out there and ask them to run some then you are asking for them to get hurt at some point...(Dak Prescott, Wentz, Kyle Allen, Heinicke)....knowing this, you'll need to have plans B and C ready....maybe even plan D. It's gonna be really interesting to see what direction RR goes in.....I just pray that Alex retires so he can stay healthy. 

 

Yeah, that would be Heinicke and Allen.  I'm not sure about Montez, but I think they like him...they liked him enough to dress him in the playoff game and sit Alex.  So maybe Montez is a guy for us here moving forward, too.

 

[UKskins]

48 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yeah, that would be Heinicke and Allen.  I'm not sure about Montez, but I think they like him...they liked him enough to dress him in the playoff game and sit Alex.  So maybe Montez is a guy for us here moving forward, too.

 

Montez dressed for the playoff because we had zero options. A better way to think about whether Ron likes him, is that he scooped Heinicke out of his university dorm and immediately elevated him over Montez who has been around the roster all season, rather than put Montez in for the regular season.

My solid expectation is that Montez stays on the practice squad and Alex is replaced with a cheap vet for a true QB comp with Kyle and Heinicke.

1 hour ago, DefinitelyMaybe said:

I’m not convinced it’s going to happen, but could somebody explain to me how our salary cap is affected if Smith retires?

Saves $14.7million next year and $21million in 2022

[Wildbunny]

Some related article regarding QBs explaining the whole situation for all of them:

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/1/12/22226454/erfa-rfa-and-washingtons-quarterbacks

 

 

 

Alex Smith’s situation

The Washington Football Team has only one quarterback under contract for 2021 that has ever taken a snap in an NFL regular-season game: Alex Smith. They also have Steve Montez, the former Colorado quarterback. Montez is, in my eyes, a practice squad quarterback; the fact that Ron Rivera signed Taylor Heinicke off of his sofa in December rather than trusting Montez, who had been with the team since training camp, says all I need to know to inform that opinion.

 

Alex Smith’s situation seems problematic. First, his recent issues with his calf seem to drop him firmly into the “unreliable” category from a health standpoint. If you recall, he was unable to finish the 49ers game, missed the Seahawks and Panthers games, hobbled through the Week 17 contest against the Eagles, and then was inactive for the team’s playoff game against the Buccaneers. That means he was able to start and finish only one game in the final five played by Washington. The second problem is Smith’s salary cap hit. If he plays 16 regular-season games plus playoffs, then he is a bargain at $23.3m for 2021, but given the unreliability discussed above, he looks like a very expensive option. I love Alex’s leadership, mentorship and proven ability to win games, but Miami got all of that out of Ryan Fitzpatrick this season for only $8m, and he was fully healthy until Week 17.

 

Ultimately, Alex Smith’s future will be up to Alex Smith and, to a large degree, Ron Rivera, but if I were betting real money, I’d wager that Smith will announce his retirement sometime in February. I suspect he wants to keep playing, but he’ll recognize that his inabity to get on the field when Washington really needed him against Carolina, Seattle and Tampa Bay will be enough to finalize the decision. Reading between the lines of Alex’s comments, it sounds like his wife has been gently pushing in that direction anyway.

 

Click on the link for more

[HigSkin]

36 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Some related article regarding QBs explaining the whole situation for all of them:

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/1/12/22226454/erfa-rfa-and-washingtons-quarterbacks

 

 

 

Alex Smith’s situation

The Washington Football Team has only one quarterback under contract for 2021 that has ever taken a snap in an NFL regular-season game: Alex Smith. They also have Steve Montez, the former Colorado quarterback. Montez is, in my eyes, a practice squad quarterback; the fact that Ron Rivera signed Taylor Heinicke off of his sofa in December rather than trusting Montez, who had been with the team since training camp, says all I need to know to inform that opinion.

 

Alex Smith’s situation seems problematic. First, his recent issues with his calf seem to drop him firmly into the “unreliable” category from a health standpoint. If you recall, he was unable to finish the 49ers game, missed the Seahawks and Panthers games, hobbled through the Week 17 contest against the Eagles, and then was inactive for the team’s playoff game against the Buccaneers. That means he was able to start and finish only one game in the final five played by Washington. The second problem is Smith’s salary cap hit. If he plays 16 regular-season games plus playoffs, then he is a bargain at $23.3m for 2021, but given the unreliability discussed above, he looks like a very expensive option. I love Alex’s leadership, mentorship and proven ability to win games, but Miami got all of that out of Ryan Fitzpatrick this season for only $8m, and he was fully healthy until Week 17.

 

Ultimately, Alex Smith’s future will be up to Alex Smith and, to a large degree, Ron Rivera, but if I were betting real money, I’d wager that Smith will announce his retirement sometime in February. I suspect he wants to keep playing, but he’ll recognize that his inabity to get on the field when Washington really needed him against Carolina, Seattle and Tampa Bay will be enough to finalize the decision. Reading between the lines of Alex’s comments, it sounds like his wife has been gently pushing in that direction anyway.

 

Click on the link for more

This is a really good and thorough read on the matter!  Thanks gor posting.

[DefinitelyMaybe]

1 hour ago, UKskins said:

Montez dressed for the playoff because we had zero options. A better way to think about whether Ron likes him, is that he scooped Heinicke out of his university dorm and immediately elevated him over Montez who has been around the roster all season, rather than put Montez in for the regular season.

My solid expectation is that Montez stays on the practice squad and Alex is replaced with a cheap vet for a true QB comp with Kyle and Heinicke.

Saves $14.7million next year and $21million in 2022

Cheers fella, some serious cheddar! A lot of this will depend on Smiths next move

Should Trey Lance drop to the 2nd / 3rd I kinda like the idea of picking him up and using him in certain packages ala Taysom Hill

 

Could be pretty fun to watch, the guy looks like a bulldozing running back 😅

[KDawg]

16 minutes ago, DefinitelyMaybe said:

Cheers fella, some serious cheddar! A lot of this will depend on Smiths next move

Should Trey Lance drop to the 2nd / 3rd I kinda like the idea of picking him up and using him in certain packages ala Taysom Hill

 

Could be pretty fun to watch, the guy looks like a bulldozing running back 😅

Trey Lance dropping to the second or third is about as likely as me winning the lottery. And not a scratch off. The national big money one. 
 

And I don’t even buy lottery tickets.

Edited January 12, 2021 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Trey Lance dropping to the second or third is about as likely as me winning the lottery. And not a scratch off. The national big money one. 
 

And I don’t even buy lottery tickets.

 

Yeah I think for Lance we got to trade up, likely into the top 10.  If we are going wirth a QB at 19, this is the dude who likely might be there.  

 

There are other prospects I like better than Jones potentially at 19.  Jones is a hard guy for me to make up my mind about.  I like him, don't love him.  But for me he or Newman would be who I'd like in that next tier (2nd tier) of QBs. 

 

Boy does Klatt love Mac Jones.  He's on it over and over again.  Similar to how Riddick was with Haskins.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise